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View Full Version : how hard can a mill/drill press?



Elninio
06-10-2013, 06:16 AM
I have the larger mill/drill machines (the one with a 2hp motor). I sometimes use it to press bearings - so is it worth my money to buy a 1-ton arbor press, or does this milling machine get close to that value? No point having two of the same tools ...

JEZX
06-10-2013, 07:35 AM
id say the 1 ton arbor press would be useless to you . ive found the 5 ton we have to be hard to get any satisfaction from . hate to see your mill pressing down a ton with the head tho , im guessing the bearings are pretty easy going .

Peter.
06-10-2013, 07:43 AM
If you strip a tooth off the quill feed, you'll have to buy both.

olcop
06-10-2013, 08:28 AM
Buy a new one, 17-20 ton is pretty cheap, a used one even more so, or build your own with a hydraulic automotive jack and some channel. Lots of plans on the net for these.
olcop

Elninio
06-10-2013, 08:50 AM
I don't need 20 tons, just 1 or 2.I've used the mill before and know its limits

Dr Stan
06-10-2013, 09:19 AM
I don't need 20 tons, just 1 or 2.I've used the mill before and know its limits

Famous last words: "Hey Bubba watch this!"

GNM109
06-10-2013, 09:32 AM
I had a 2 hp Harbor Freight Mill Drill for about ten years before I traded up to a BP clone. It was OK for light milling and was a great drill press, easily doing up to 1" with an S&D drill.

Shortly after I got it, I had to remove the quill so that I could fix the threaded hole in the side for the set screw that was used to retain the R-8 tools. I replaced it with a hardened pin that was fitted into the hole once it was drilled for a press fit.

I mention this because that got me a first-hand look at the size and design of the teeth on both the quill and its matching pinion gear. They are not all that large or deep. So for that reason, I think that presswork with it would be another matter. I think there's a possibility that it could damage the rack and pinion gearing on the quill.

Willy
06-10-2013, 10:30 AM
Gee I would of never thought of that application, and like GNM109 mentioned, it would be hard on the rack and pinion for the quill. They simply are not designed for that application.
Kind of like using a set of micrometers as C-clamps.:)

Jaakko Fagerlund
06-10-2013, 12:27 PM
Erm, have done this on a CNC mill by feeding with the handwheel :D The spindle force gauge was showing 40 % out of a maximum thrust capability of 2.5 tons. Nicely controllable for sure :)

cameron
06-10-2013, 12:57 PM
I don't need 20 tons, just 1 or 2.I've used the mill before and know its limits

If you know the limits, why did you ask the question?

vincemulhollon
06-10-2013, 04:40 PM
I wonder how this whole thread relates to the endlessly reinvented "use your drill press to operate a homemade injection molder" apps.

Do those gadgets require "real force" or are they just using the drill press as a convenient flat fireproof table with a masher on the top?

I would guess from looking at molten mushy plastic, and playing with edible cake frosting, that the forces are not very high, but maybe as it cools in the mold, pressures increase...

beanbag
06-10-2013, 05:07 PM
Measure the motion ratio between the quill lever and the spindle movement to figure out what the force multiplier is.

Or put a bathroom scale under the spindle and squeeze on it.

If you pull the lever hard enough that something breaks, pull less hard next time. :)

Carld
06-10-2013, 11:06 PM
A drill press or a Bridgeport type mill is NOT a press for assembling parts. However, if you don't mind damaging your machine every time you use it as a press then carry on.

iMisspell
06-11-2013, 12:55 AM
Ive used my bench top drill press more then a few times as a press and cringe every time... also have a mortising machine (for woodworking) which i prefer to use as a press, But a home-made manual arbor press is in the future. Personally, i would buy a second machine.

JAY BIRD VII
06-11-2013, 01:26 AM
Although not as drastic, This reminds me of the time I walked into a Shop and saw a fellow straddling the bed on an Engine Lathe as he bent over the machine grasping and lifting with all of his might while pulling up on a Solid 2" Diameter bar of 303(?) Stainless Steel, that was chucked up into the head-stock. I asked him: "Gene! What on Earth are you doing?"! He replied: "Oh Hi! I'm just using this Lathe as a Bending machine.". :eek:

This same Machine Tool was used for close tolerance work in a Tool Room, before the owner sent it across the street to his Son-In-Law's Shop. After "The Crew" of "Machinist" were done with it, it no longer held close tolerance. The run out at the head-stock was so bad, that they only turned parts at the tail-stock end. It became dedicated to one Job's operation. There was no sense in repairing it, unless only "Authorized Personnel" were allowed to use it.

I hope this helps.... Or at least provides a good laugh.

Black_Moons
06-11-2013, 02:01 AM
I wonder how this whole thread relates to the endlessly reinvented "use your drill press to operate a homemade injection molder" apps.

Do those gadgets require "real force" or are they just using the drill press as a convenient flat fireproof table with a masher on the top?

I would guess from looking at molten mushy plastic, and playing with edible cake frosting, that the forces are not very high, but maybe as it cools in the mold, pressures increase...

Afaik, those use your drill press in its lowest gear to run a fine threaded screw really fast. Likey can put several tons of force easily, and are only designed to inject parts the size of a bic lighter or so.

Elninio
06-11-2013, 11:50 AM
Erm, have done this on a CNC mill by feeding with the handwheel :D The spindle force gauge was showing 40 % out of a maximum thrust capability of 2.5 tons. Nicely controllable for sure :)
Nice. When I was in engineering school, we had a giant press (I know this, because we wrote our exams in a classroom 3 floors up, and it was looking directly at it), that could press 1000Ton but detect the force required to start cracking an egg. The leadscrows were massive, it looked like 6" diameter at the time.

Elninio
06-11-2013, 11:53 AM
If you know the limits, why did you ask the question?

The limits to what it takes to break it. Yes, my arms don't have a digital force meter built into them. It doesn't take a map to figure your way around town, or that you wanna get google maps when you get lost in walmart.

oxford
06-11-2013, 01:20 PM
For only needing 1-2 tons of pressure I would just buy the arbor press and be safe about it. They are cheap enough that you shouldn't really even be asking the question.

Black_Moons
06-11-2013, 05:26 PM
I find my cheap tools last a LOT LOT longer when I don't abuse them for tasks that they where not designed for.
The more expensive tools might survive those tasks sure, But.. why not just get a cheap tool and save your expensive tools for the jobs they are designed for?

Dave C
10-23-2016, 01:21 PM
Famous last words: "Hey Bubba watch this!"

No, those are the famous first words. The last words are "ooooh sh*t" !

Paul Alciatore
10-23-2016, 01:55 PM
OK, seriously, just why are you asking the question? You asked, "how hard can a mill/drill press?". Yet here you say you know it's limits.

While I am sure you or I could press a bearing or two with a mill/drill or a drill press, that does not really say anything about the amount of force that either of those machines can produce. That force will differ with different sizes of bearings, with different materials that the bearings are mounted in, even from one bearing/housing combination to another, even to two "identical" bearing/housing combinations that come down the assembly line next to each other, and with many, many other factors. So, knowing what it took to press one bearing really tells you a limited amount about doing another.

So, do you really want to know how much a mill/drill CAN press? If so, do you mean safely and within the manufacturers specs., or do you mean what would be the breaking point for the rack/pinion?

Or are you really asking if this is a safe procedure.

You can't be asking if it is possible, because you stated that you already do it.

Perhaps you want to know how much wear it is placing on your machine? Or how many bearings you can press before you break something? Or before you start seeing problems with your milling operations?

Or perhaps you are just feeling guilty and want someone to ease your mind.

If you want a sensible answer, you should state your question more clearly. Otherwise we are just guessing at what to say.




I don't need 20 tons, just 1 or 2.I've used the mill before and know its limits

mattthemuppet
10-23-2016, 03:07 PM
given that the thread is around 3 years old, I would guess that he's found out one way or another by now.

RB211
10-23-2016, 03:22 PM
Elninio was a know it all kid that would ask questions while already knowing his own answer, and get mad if you didn't agree with him. I'm glad his attention drifted elsewhere and went away.

Tundra Twin Track
10-23-2016, 04:28 PM
I have a Greenerd 3E with 24" shipwheel that is rated for 2-1/2 ton the rack spacing on it is the same as 17" import drill presses rack,I did not measure pinion dia but I am sure the Arbor Press is smaller.http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/tundratwintrack/image.jpg1_zpsuk3cv3jz.jpg (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/tundratwintrack/media/image.jpg1_zpsuk3cv3jz.jpg.html)

David Powell
10-23-2016, 04:51 PM
I have a Greenerd 3E with 24" shipwheel that is rated for 2-1/2 ton the rack spacing on it is the same as 17" import drill presses rack,I did not measure pinion dia but I am sure the Arbor Press is smaller.http://i1371.photobucket.com/albums/ag292/tundratwintrack/image.jpg1_zpsuk3cv3jz.jpg (http://s1371.photobucket.com/user/tundratwintrack/media/image.jpg1_zpsuk3cv3jz.jpg.html)

Yes you can use it as a press, without any risk, providing you do not pull any harder on the handle than when drilling the largest hole the machine is rated for. If you want to be extra sure then don't quite pull so hard as you would when drilling the largest hole the mill is rated for. This limits you to light press fits in small parts, with vertical mills up to Bridgeport size. I have pushed many 1/8" and smaller dia dowel pins into aluminium and fibreglass parts with reamed holes at 0.124", or appropriate for smaller holes. Pushing them with a pusher in the drill chuck immediately after reaming meant they were in line. If any went tight and the handle was hard to pull then I finished the job in the press after starting them, but that seldom happened. My workmate on the shop floor who worked previously in a sugar plantation said there he did press fits using the bucket of the front end loader to hammer the pieces together !! Horses for courses I guess. Regards David Powell..

RB211
10-23-2016, 05:22 PM
Thats what a HF 20 ton shop press is for...

JoeLee
10-23-2016, 05:44 PM
If you strip a tooth off the quill feed, you'll have to buy both.

Good point!!

JL.........

The Artful Bodger
10-23-2016, 07:09 PM
Further to what others have mentioned I believe most manual machines are designed and engineered to handle the maximum effort someone can put on the handle. Use your drill press for pushing broaches, pressing bearings, injection moulding and even drilling holes but always avoid applying more than moderate effort on the handle and definitely avoid cheater bars and such like.

I have a small workshop and often resort to unconventional use of tools including machine tools and I cannot recall when I last broke something by asking it to do something the designer never envisaged.

Arcane
10-23-2016, 09:12 PM
Yes you can use it as a press, without any risk, providing you do not pull any harder on the handle than when drilling the largest hole the machine is rated for..........

A very good rule of thumb but maybe not applicable if you're a bubba whose bits are as dull as Bubba himself! :D

However, there's a way to fairly accurately ascertain the forces involved. For inquiring minds please go to page 142 of this PDF.

https://www.bostongear.com/pdf/gear_theory.pdf

RB211
10-23-2016, 09:25 PM
...I have a small workshop and often resort to unconventional use of tools including machine tools and I cannot recall when I last broke something by asking it to do something the designer never envisaged.
I have experience breaking things. I needed a barrel wrench for a FN-FAL rifle. I bought a big Husky open end wrench and modified it with a grinder to make it work as a barrel wrench... Yep, I cracked the sumbitch... I instead resorted to using a cut off disk on a dremel and cut a slit in the receiver stub(It was a parts kit gun) and cracked open the receiver stub.
But you know, it would of been nice having the right tools from the start, especially since I now had to torque that barrel onto a new receiver!

darryl
10-23-2016, 10:48 PM
Pull the downfeed pinion shaft out of the mill, and pull one from a 1 ton arbor press. Compare the size of the teeth. You might then be a little less willing to use the mill as a press.

Paul Alciatore
10-23-2016, 10:55 PM
Why do I always get sucked in by these old threads?

WHY? WHY? WHY?




given that the thread is around 3 years old, I would guess that he's found out one way or another by now.

Dr. Rob
10-24-2016, 12:08 AM
Why do I always get sucked in by these old threads?

WHY? WHY? WHY?

You are a slow reader?

:-)

CalM
10-24-2016, 12:39 AM
I have the larger mill/drill machines (the one with a 2hp motor). I sometimes use it to press bearings - so is it worth my money to buy a 1-ton arbor press, or does this milling machine get close to that value? No point having two of the same tools ...

Do the math!

You have the lever, the pinion diameter and the manufacturers suggested bearing thrust load capacity.

It AIN'T rocket surgery.

Tundra Twin Track
10-24-2016, 01:01 AM
A very good rule of thumb but maybe not applicable if you're a bubba whose bits are as dull as Bubba himself! :D

However, there's a way to fairly accurately ascertain the forces involved. For inquiring minds please go to page 142 of this PDF.

https://www.bostongear.com/pdf/gear_theory.pdf

That site has a lot of info,the pinion on my 25 ton Dake is like new,must be made out very good material and is 1946-1954 vintage.I am sure it's capacity has been beyond that when a couple big Gorillas hang on that handle.

JRouche
10-24-2016, 01:20 AM
You are a slow reader?

:-)

LoL. Solly JR

JRouche
10-24-2016, 01:33 AM
Good Q Mr. Elninio...

We cant assume all of us have or can affords larger presses.

The question was not do I need to Buy a press! I thought
Elninio's Question was if he should continue to use his drill press as a press?? I say give it hell. It wont change.

Its a thick rack and pinion. Go at it like you meant it is what I say. JR

Magicniner
10-24-2016, 08:55 AM
I've seen the labels on screwdrivers "Do not use as a pry-bar or chisel" perhaps mill and drill manufacturers should let us know with a sticker if their products are "Not for use as a punch or press" ?
:-)

- Nick

lynnl
10-24-2016, 09:28 AM
Why do I always get sucked in by these old threads?

WHY? WHY? WHY?

The way I see it, after two or three years an old thread is new again. By then I've usually forgotten most of the discussion that took place originally.

Sorta like rehearing an old joke.

GNM109
10-24-2016, 10:25 AM
As most of us know, using your mill for an arbor press is a really bad idea. For the few things that I need an arbor press for, I got myself a small one from Harbor Freight. Firmly bolted down, you can do things like cutting keyways, pressing in bearings and any other thing that an arbor press will do within its limits. There's no reason to use a mill or mill drill for that and take a chance on breaking the gears.

metalmagpie
10-24-2016, 10:36 AM
If you strip a tooth off the quill feed, you'll have to buy both.

Well, not really. It is possible to fix a tooth on a broken gear, and it is also possible to turn the quill some and machine another rack. Not everyone could or would do this, but it isn't necessarily true that he'd have to replace both parts with new.

metalmagpie

GNM109
10-24-2016, 01:08 PM
Well, not really. It is possible to fix a tooth on a broken gear, and it is also possible to turn the quill some and machine another rack. Not everyone could or would do this, but it isn't necessarily true that he'd have to replace both parts with new.

metalmagpie


You can do lots of things, but for me at least, replacing only one broken gear in a meshed set is a complete waste of time.

My Webb Mill had a broken right angle bevel gear in the worm cradle that drives the power feed when I got it. One of the two gears was missing three teeth and that caused intermittent movement. It was caused by a previous owner named Bubba when he decided to use the power feed to drill a 1" hole.

One gear was $50 and both were $125. I ponied up and bought both gears in the set so that I wouldn't have to take the head apart again. Glad I did since it's still working 7 years later.

cameron
10-24-2016, 01:43 PM
Further to what others have mentioned I believe most manual machines are designed and engineered to handle the maximum effort someone can put on the handle. Use your drill press for pushing broaches, pressing bearings, injection moulding and even drilling holes but always avoid applying more than moderate effort on the handle and definitely avoid cheater bars and such like.



So, no matter how strong you are, you can pull as hard as you like and stop when the when the handle breaks, right? Why stop at moderate effort?;)

Andre3127
10-24-2016, 02:02 PM
A drill press or a Bridgeport type mill is NOT a press for assembling parts. However, if you don't mind damaging your machine every time you use it as a press then carry on.

For small things, like pushing small diameter pins or balls into holes it'll be OK. It's a very constant force with no vibration, so it's not a very damaging stress.....but over 100 pounds of force or so and I'd move to the arbor press.