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The Artful Bodger
07-12-2013, 01:49 AM
Does anyone know the interpretation of the Chinese lathe numbering system?

I notice that Sir John's new blue lathe is numbered CQ6236G whereas my 12x36 lathe is numbered CQ6230A-1. There are several other models of Chinese lathes with numbers in the "CQ.." series.


So what do these numbers mean? Are all these lathes from the same factory? Is this an industry standard for defining the size and other characteristics of a lathe? Do the numbers denote an official Chinese government design?


Are the parts of all lathes of the same CQ number interchangeable?

The Artful Bodger
07-12-2013, 03:29 PM
No ideas at all?

PixMan
07-12-2013, 03:38 PM
They all mean nothing to anyone other than the maker and the buyer.

I have a 1970's vintage Taiwanese Victor 1640. Lucky me, the model number matches the swing and between centers length.

I doubt very much that there's any standards applied to Chinese model number schemes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_0284-r.jpg

KiddZimaHater
07-12-2013, 10:31 PM
I'd bet a few Shillings that the 'CQ' doesn't stand for 'Chinese Quality'.

flylo
07-12-2013, 11:03 PM
The G in Johns probably means Great, the A in yours Average. I used to see CE on most things chinese & thought it had something to do with quality but was told it means chinese export.

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 12:05 AM
The G in Johns probably means Great, the A in yours Average. I used to see CE on most things chinese & thought it had something to do with quality but was told it means chinese export.



Don't believe all you are told!

from Wiki
The CE marking or formerly EC mark, is a mandatory conformity marking for products sold in the European Economic Area (EEA) since 1993. The CE marking is the manufacturer's declaration that the product meets the requirements of the applicable EC directives.

The actual words signified by "CE" have been disputed. It is often taken to be an abbreviation of Conformité Européenne, meaning "European Conformity". However, "CE" originally stood for "Communauté Européenne", French for "European Community". In former German legislation, the CE marking was called "EG-Zeichen" meaning "European Community mark". According to the European Commission, the CE logo has become a symbol for free marketability of industrial goods within the EEA

flylo
07-13-2013, 02:36 AM
Don't believe all you read!

http://icqc.co.uk/en/china-export.php

http://www.ybw.com/expert-advice/vhf/news/509220/warning-don-t-get-confused-between-the-ce-mark-and-the-china-export-mark

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSh9ZokzALA

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 03:05 AM
None of which proves your claim that "CE" means Chinese Export.

flylo
07-13-2013, 06:15 AM
I didn't make a claim, I just said I was told, what it does prove that some chinese manufacturers choose to use "CE" to mislead their customers.

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 06:22 AM
It does not even prove that, unless you can show that the products do not meet relevant EU requirements.

Barrington
07-13-2013, 07:14 AM
In these times of rampant sinophobia, such myths flourish on internet forums and amongst those who make money from 'providing' unnecessary CE certification.

Even so, a statement in the European Parliament has made it's position clear - a body with no reason to deny it.

http://www.europarl.europa.eu/sides/getAllAnswers.do?reference=P-2007-5938&language=EN


The Commission is aware that there exists the misconception attributing CE marking the meaning ‘Chinese export’. The Commission is not aware of the existence of a ‘China export mark’ but considers that the mark the Honourable Member refers to constitute the CE marking as foreseen in the European legislation without, however, respecting the dimensions and proportions prescribed therein.

Cheers

.

Weston Bye
07-13-2013, 10:45 AM
Is it what they (the Chinese) think will sell lathes, like the multitude of car models that have an X or Z in their name?

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 03:59 PM
Is it what they (the Chinese) think will sell lathes, like the multitude of car models that have an X or Z in their name?

It seems to be more than that as all Chinese lathes of the same size seem to have the same number except for those that show importers' numbers such as Precision Matthews "PM.." numbers. The PM1236 is indistinguishable in the pictures from my CQ6230A.

Are they all made in the same factory?

rode2rouen
07-13-2013, 06:26 PM
'Chinese Quality'


I do believe that should be considered an oxymoron, similar to "Military Intelligence", or "Political Ethics".


Rex

Hopefuldave
07-13-2013, 06:42 PM
AnOK, I'll bite....

I've seen a lot of Chinese lathes with "CE" markings, NONE of which meet the requirements of the CE scheme, which include:
safety - supplied with poor earth (ground) continuity, fuses in neutral conductor (leaving the machine dead but electrics live on fuse failure), operating switches and safety interlock microswitches rated for a tenth of the current they're carrying, including emergency stops which weld their contacts closed.
Interference suppression - delta filters not connected to earth in accordance with the electronics' manufacturers' instructions (swamping the am radio bands for 1/4 mile).
"BEST PRACTICE" which IS part of the CE scheme - inadequate guards, poor fit and alignment - including milling machines sold.to schools by my former employer with finger access to belts and pulleys, drill presses with emergency stops that can be defeated.by a finger held on the start button... These particular dangers could be cured for a few quid, I even provided (in my own time) drawings to fit a simple guard / an electrical modification, but they were too expensive....

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 08:35 PM
Obviously then the CE marked CQ6230A I have came from somewhere else as it does not have those faults, in fact I don't think it even has any fuses on it and all the safety interlocks are low voltage circuits with the only load being the contactors in the box. Not even Chinese induction motors have the ability to swamp AM bands. Perhaps in your case "CE" markings mean "crap for England".

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 08:36 PM
Lots of input here but still no one seems to have thought about what those CQ... numbers really mean.:confused:

wierdscience
07-13-2013, 08:47 PM
Guys,it easier than that,I asked the owner of one of our import vendors at work.She is second generation Chinese and speaks four languages.

Chechuang =(N) Lathe and Qi = (n)a tool or device.So,it's easy- CQ =Lathe Device(model#xxxx)and whatever revision/version etc,etc happens to be.

The numbering on some is obviously the swing/cc distance hence the 1640 mentioned above.

With that in mind,aren't Lathes of British decent classed by 1/2 of what we use to determine the swing? In other words could your 6236 really be 6.2x36 inches? And by that note the same machine here would be a 12x36? I'm sure the real dimensions would be in millimeters and what we see on the lathe is just a close enough rounding off.

The Artful Bodger
07-13-2013, 09:07 PM
Ahaha! That makes things clearer, but who defines the designs? Is there a Chinese government ministry that issues 'official' designs for the factories to make?

One vendor lists the CQ6230A-1 as between centres 910mm (35.8") and centre height 150mm (5.9")

I have my own theory and that is just a few, maybe only one, foundry makes the castings which go to a few factories equipped to do the machining then these bits go to a greater number of even smaller factories that put them together.

Poorer quality castings might find their way to even smaller shops right down to guys assembling milling machines in their home shop.

I think my lathe was assembled in a big shop that had all the necessary tools and facilities to complete the job and my turret mill might have been assembled at the foot of someone's bed! There is nothing really wrong with the mill that I can see except that some bits (like the light bracket) have crooked mounting holes and you can see where the hand held drill skidded over the paint and the depth indicator is held on with 8 screws that are all the wrong type (countersunk instead of cheese head breaking the plastic escutcheon).

wierdscience
07-13-2013, 09:38 PM
A lot of those designs aren't Chinese in origin.Most are taken from European and Russian designs.Just about all of the square head and tailstock lathes were EMCO designs originally.Others look to be Clausing in flavor and one line looks like 60's vintage Lodge&Shipley.

The Chinese either through their own experimenting or requests from export customers have made changes,some for the better and some for the worse.

I'll have to ask Lin next time I see her what the scoop is on the mfg arrangements there.

flylo
07-13-2013, 09:41 PM
I don't know the manufacturing history but taiwan was building good quality machines 30 years ago & still do but while some chinese companies build good machines many don't, still a crapshoot. Nearly 20 years ago I bought a rebranded chinese 25HP 4WD tractor loader & it worked great. Then the dealer got in 30HP models which I traded for & it was a POS. It broke every time I used it. Later I found out it was a different factory, they only brought in 6 & bought them all back & dumped them at auction.
The point I'm trying to make is taiwan has had consistant quality & china hasn't. Why is that?

mike4
07-13-2013, 09:53 PM
You get what ya pays for .
The higher end equipment is better finished and doesnt have the problems that many post here and on other forums have raved on about for ad infinitum.

Also it pays to inspect as much as possible before taking delivery my chinese lathe and mill have both done what I wanted them for and I did check both out before they were freighted to me from the supplier.
I happen to be located in an area which does not have a plethora of OLE IRON , and the freight on 5-10 ton machines is a bit pricey when they have to travel 2-3 thousand kilometers.
I will be looking at more equipment over the next year as I have decided to do more machine work .
Michael

Richard P Wilson
07-14-2013, 05:04 AM
With that in mind,aren't Lathes of British decent classed by 1/2 of what we use to determine the swing? In other words could your 6236 really be 6.2x36 inches? And by that note the same machine here would be a 12x36? I'm sure the real dimensions would be in millimeters and what we see on the lathe is just a close enough rounding off.

Traditionally, UK lathes were sized by centre height and distance between centres, so my UK built Raglan is known as a 5"x 24", but US goes for swing x bed length, so in the US the Raglan would be 10"x44". In the UK market at least the Chinese stuff uses a combination of the 2 systems and uses swing x distance between centres, so the typical mini lathe is 7 x 12 (or 14). Does this help? Probably not!

Richard