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Yow Ling
09-19-2013, 10:02 PM
You guys following this, the might of Silicon Valley and Oracle getting served on a plate by a team from the South Pacific ?

Quite high tech 45kts in a boat is pretty good, maybe America needs to buy their boats down here !!

lakeside53
09-19-2013, 10:03 PM
They did - the prototype was built in NZ, and the skipper is an Aussi.

Guido
09-19-2013, 10:33 PM
Yup-------------

--G

aostling
09-19-2013, 10:40 PM
You guys following this, the might of Silicon Valley and Oracle getting served on a plate by a team from the South Pacific ?


Good on 'ya, I say. I've been rooting for New Zealand since 1971.

Now you will get to set the rules for the next America Cup, and the venue. I favor displacement hulls, sailing on Cook Strait. That would separate the men from the boys.

The Artful Bodger
09-20-2013, 01:04 AM
You guys following this, the might of Silicon Valley and Oracle getting served on a plate by a team from the South Pacific ?

Quite high tech 45kts in a boat is pretty good, maybe America needs to buy their boats down here !!


Did I miss something? I thought NZ still has to have another win?

The Artful Bodger
09-20-2013, 01:05 AM
Good on 'ya, I say. I've been rooting for New Zealand since 1971.

Now you will get to set the rules for the next America Cup, and the venue. I favor displacement hulls, sailing on Cook Strait. That would separate the men from the boys.

Nah, winged cats on Cook Strait with not limit on wind speed, then we would surely see some blistering times!

Yow Ling
09-20-2013, 02:44 AM
Did I miss something? I thought NZ still has to have another win?

Isn't that scheduled for tomorrow?

The Artful Bodger
09-20-2013, 05:37 AM
I will be wearing my red socks.

Mike Burch
09-20-2013, 05:46 AM
With the replacement of their tactician by an Englishman, I believe that Oracle now have no Americans on their boat. Like the team boss Russell Coutts, most of their crew are in fact New Zealanders. No wonder the event is getting almost no attention in the USA.
The boats are truly astonishing technology, but at US$10,000,000 apiece, they are ludicrously expensive. They are, I think, the single greatest leap forward in sailing technology since the Bermudan mainsail replaced the gaff, but I can't see much of the innovation trickling down to the real world any time soon.
As for tomorrow — Go Aotearoa!

winchman
09-20-2013, 05:56 AM
It's like watching a duel with light sabres....fun, but it has nothing to do with sailing real boats in real weather. Safety limitations restrict the boats to winds below 22 knots (or thereabouts). I've sailed a 16-foot HobieCat single-handed in that kind of wind with a rag jib and a mainsail from a 14-foot HobieCat.

It is a marvelous display of high tech design, though. Getting six+ tons of boat to fly at forty+ knots on some hockey sticks is pretty impressive.

The pressure's on the Oracle team, and I can't wait to see the next race Friday afternoon.

aostling
09-20-2013, 08:16 AM
No wonder the event is getting almost no attention in the USA.


The New York Times sports section has had good coverage. I read a hard copy but you can get it online: http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/19/sports/americas-cup-seems-all-over-but-the-sailing.html?src=me&_r=0. Last week they described the close call when the New Zealand boat almost capsized in an unexpected gust. I hope nothing like that will mar the final victory race.

Trigrman
09-20-2013, 11:18 AM
I've sailed a 16-foot HobieCat single-handed in that kind of wind with a rag jib and a mainsail from a 14-foot HobieCat.

It is a marvelous display of high tech design, though. Getting six+ tons of boat to fly at forty+ knots on some hockey sticks is pretty impressive.

The pressure's on the Oracle team, and I can't wait to see the next race Friday afternoon.

I used to race Hobie 16's too! Great fun when it's windy! A total drag when it's calm! We used to piss of the coast guard being the only fools out when small craft warning were out on Lake Ontario.

The type of sailing these teams are doing requires world class athletes. No racing in blue blazers for them.

I always enjoyed racing with the few Aussies I met. They were great sailors, especially in high winds. Never had the pleasure of racing with a New Zealander. The sailors I had the most fun with we're from Granada! Ya Mon!

A.K. Boomer
09-20-2013, 11:58 AM
I will be wearing my red socks.

We really don't need to go there do we?
keep in mind lots of kids read this stuff...

dp
09-20-2013, 12:57 PM
I used to sail Hobie Cats when I lived in SoCal - unbelievably fun fun fun of a cold wet kind, but damn it's easy to put them in irons, and they're an anchor in light airs. Hiking gear is a must and also serves as a trebuchet when you least expect it.

PAUL03
09-21-2013, 03:28 PM
Oracle team had to big a hole too climb out with a 2pt deduction . They spent way too much time racing the other team boat . Then race real world Competition, and found out they were not near fast enough or made quick enough jives. America's Team had a grand total of two sailors on board from the USA. Larry Ellison lost site of what he was trying to accomplish . I think a better penalty for Team Oracle would been the three sailors being tossed along with the team manager.

The Artful Bodger
09-21-2013, 03:57 PM
Although it is called "best of 17" Team NZ really needs 9 wins to take the cup and 9 wins to Oracle would prevent that. The two point penalty is a fraud.

aostling
09-21-2013, 05:44 PM
... they were not near fast enough or made quick enough jives.

I chuckled at your inspired misspelling. Do they really jibe these dodgy boats? That sounds like a recipe for disaster!

Glug
09-22-2013, 04:26 PM
The Oracle USA boat is *far* better funded - to an extreme. They actually have two boats, and two complete crews. They were able to hold mock races to practice. Can you imagine the advantage that is?

And yet they are still getting spanked.

The Artful Bodger
09-22-2013, 05:50 PM
Not really, Oracle is on a winning streak, two more wins today, four wins in a row.

Glug
09-23-2013, 10:21 AM
Not really, Oracle is on a winning streak, two more wins today, four wins in a row.

While the rules are the rules, there have been quite a number of bullets dodged by Oracle that would have handed the cup back to NZ.

Certainly the light wind timed race is high on that list.

Glug
09-23-2013, 10:27 AM
The two point penalty is a fraud.

It was intentional cheating and then team members lied about it.

It was not a matter of interpretation, or a grey area. It was outright cheating.

There is never just one roach. If they will cheat and lie about that apparently fairly minor component, then surely there are other instances where they have also cheated.

Alistair Hosie
09-23-2013, 12:09 PM
Man those are fliers not boats . I am surprised you don't need a pilot's licence for sailing these.However a fantastic engineering development and acievement too well done sailors and designers. Alistair

PAUL03
09-23-2013, 01:57 PM
Advantage of a two boat team, Is not much if you are not fast. The New Zealander's had real world practice >>racing other fast boats and non team mates. Other teams that want to win, not just to work out your boat. The Team Boats are locked in and unchanged once they submit there design plans. Unless you do what the USA bunch did. Yes jibe would correct spelling. Never thought about how it is spelled while racing Sabot's . I have seen the youtube video of the Trimaran http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBCS_2zZhpI This a very fast rig Big Cat's have been around for a long time .

aostling
09-24-2013, 03:35 PM
Race 17 will be starting within an hour, at 1300 PDT. In USA the only TV coverage is on NBC Sports Network, which my cable provider does not offer. Can anyone supply a link to a live feed?

The Artful Bodger
09-24-2013, 03:45 PM
Allan, try TVNZ, I think they have a live feed online. But it might be a bit slow getting to you as the boys and girls at the GCSB(NZ) and your NSA will need to watch it first!;)

Try this http://tvnz.co.nz/americas-cup-video/live-stream

aostling
09-24-2013, 03:51 PM
Allan, try TVNZ, I think they have a live feed online. But it might be a bit slow getting to you as the boys and girls at the GCSB(NZ) and your NSA will need to watch it first!;)

Try this http://tvnz.co.nz/americas-cup-video/live-stream

Thanks, John, but that link does not work for my location. How frustrating.

The Artful Bodger
09-24-2013, 04:04 PM
Actually, it doesnt work for mine either! Maybe all lines out of Orkland are overloaded!

MaxHeadRoom
09-24-2013, 04:12 PM
Fellow Sailors will get a kick out of this, I may have posted it before, someone gave a reporter the job of covering an Olympic dinghy race, the guy knows nothing of racing and thinks the jockeying for the start is the finish line!
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/acb54240c0/incredible-olympic-sailing-commentary

I can just imagine some editor grabbing a guy hanging around in the TV news room, "Hey Paddy get your ass down to the Dinghy racing we need someone to cover it"
Max.

aostling
09-24-2013, 04:38 PM
Actually, it doesnt work for mine either! Maybe all lines out of Orkland are overloaded!

Orkland, [chuckle].

I just downloaded the iPad app America's Cup HD, and I am watching race #17 live.

[edit] Now this is getting exciting!

The Artful Bodger
09-24-2013, 05:16 PM
This race is more like it!

The Artful Bodger
09-24-2013, 10:33 PM
One more race and it will all be over!

dp
09-24-2013, 11:01 PM
Both races today were shockers. Lots of mental lapses on the NZ team's part - I was totally stunned when they gave up the lead in the second race and got soundly trounced in a pull-away finish. The other NZ team funded by Oracle got away with a couple things but were tactically brilliant. I think they should have gotten a penalty at the start of the second race as they did exactly what challenger did in the earlier race.

The kerfuffle at the start of the first race was a good tactic for a monohull but the big cats just don't twitch that well into the wind. Bad enough they got the two boat length penalty, but they got put into irons by the Oracle crew (I think the Oracle crew knew what they were doing) which ended chances of winning the race for them. I think too they lost concentration in the collision and nobody was minding the jib.

Damn good racing, though. I didn't think I'd enjoy watching the cats as I'd grown up around monohulls and even did quite a bit of work on several transpac and Newport/Acapulco boats back in the 70's when I lived in Newport Beach, CA.

lakeside53
09-24-2013, 11:46 PM
. The other NZ team funded by Oracle got away with a couple things but were tactically brilliant. .

:) :) :)

Glug
09-25-2013, 03:58 PM
It has been suggested that the other NZ team funded by Oracle may be using a computer guided mechanism to trim the boat.

Direct computer control is prohibited (though I don't think the limited scrutineering would detect it). But a mechanism to actively guide a crewmember in making adjustments to foils, the wing, etc, might be legal. The system could give an audio feedback tone to indicate which way to move the controls. Etc.

When you consider that these boats are almost entirely hydraulically controlled and are already outfitted with all of the necessary sensors for such modeling, simulation and control, it isn't such a leap. Additionally, competition at this level means having excellent boat simulation tools, where you can simulate a race with different aspects of the boat changed.

The Artful Bodger
09-25-2013, 04:30 PM
Team "Kiwi" Oracle seems set to win the deciding race today.

aostling
09-25-2013, 05:11 PM
I don't understand why there are no rules about the nationality of the captain and crew. Are there no American sailors who could have pulled off what the NZ crew of Oracle USA did?

dp
09-25-2013, 05:52 PM
US kids are still living with their parents at 25 with no skills except vid games.

dp
09-25-2013, 08:35 PM
Wow - how'za 'bout those kiwis! Great racing.

The Artful Bodger
09-25-2013, 08:39 PM
Five Kiwis from the NZ boat builders went to SF while Oracle were loosing every race and that was the start of their winning streak.

dp
09-25-2013, 08:40 PM
Obviously a language barrier - two nations separated by a common tongue :)