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motopreserve
10-11-2013, 07:42 AM
Hey folks. I attended my very first auction the other day and was able to pick up an old power hacksaw. Haven't even been able to scrape off enough grime to find a name. But it was in regular use right up until I moved it. The motor is a GE 3 phase - and I ordered a VFD appropriate for the specs, and I have an experienced friend willing to help with the install.

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/nortstudio/machining/44CD87B7-F2D0-4D47-83D3-90ECAF26E5DE-1083-0000006523E86E87_zps607b7bff.jpg

I have read several threads that mention never running a drum switch with these VFDs. I am wondering whether the switch in the pic below should be eliminated. It's unfamiliar to me (and doesn't look like the drum switches I've seen) - and I'm not sure if it would cause problems. It was installed between power source and the motor.

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/nortstudio/machining/EC8D9626-A7C7-4C27-98E7-DA5B9ED5D6E0-1083-0000006284375B92_zps75bedca6.jpg

Thanks for any help and advice!

metalmole
10-11-2013, 08:13 AM
Yes the switch needs to be eliminated, the motor leads will be wired directly to the VFD, the VFD will start/stop the motor, no need for the switch, however you might wont to incorporate an emergency stop switch.....

Forrest Addy
10-11-2013, 08:33 AM
WOW!! THAT's mixing the new with the old. Great old saw. Yes, eliminate the switch from the electrical circuit. Tha old swiths is called a knife switch. It's kinda cool. I suggest you retain it somehow as an ornament long with a few other electrical antiques as you find them.

Ever see the original "Frankenstein"? Boris Karloff? The lab scene set has racks of switchboards the same vintage decorated with Jacob's ladders and flashing lights. Keep you old switch on the saw. Call it your "Frankensaw" Ostentatiousl flip the old switch and loudly gloat: "It's alive" if visitors are present when you start it Stained lab coat optional. Hell, it's a machine shop. Have a little fun.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 08:40 AM
:). Thanks so much guys.

The switch on there reminds me of the circuit breakers is find in old NYC basements. Terrifying really - knowing that the city of New York is run by gear that Frankenstein would be proud of!

Metalmole: where would you install the safety kill switch in the chain?

Appreciate the advice.

Scott

sasquatch
10-11-2013, 08:51 AM
Real nice saw!! Is that the original colour? Looks to be in nice condition.

Curious what the name is on it????

ironmonger
10-11-2013, 08:52 AM
Nice find

You could re-purpose the knife switch to be the emergency kill switch in a steam punky kind of way, or use it to control the start stop on the vfd. Many of the control functions operate at low voltage. Check your docs from the VFD.

If you really want to step back you are all ready for the line shaft to spin that puppy up.... maybe that's carrying nostalgia to far, but it is nice to see old equipment brought to life again.

paul

J Tiers
10-11-2013, 08:58 AM
If you cut power to the VFD it will stop!

A contactor ("manual" or otherwise) on the power input is fine.

You CAN put the kill switch on the motor side, so long as you remember to close it before starting the VFD again. VFDs don't like having the motor "dropped on the line", they want to slow-start the motor themselves.

MaxHeadRoom
10-11-2013, 10:22 AM
What I would do is set up three push buttons, stop - start - and a push lock e_stop.
Ideally you could have a small relay picked up by the start button and retained by a N.O. contact on the relay in parallel with the start P.B. , the stop button would be N.C. and in series with the start P.B.
You do not want a situation where the saw starts when you release the E-stop.
The stop start would go to the low voltage input control and the E-stop would control a 3 phase contactor on the VFD input.
No overload are needed.
Max.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 11:21 AM
Thanks for all the tips!

I want to keep it stupid simple - since this is the first time dealing with a VFD. I think I will set it up with just the VFD at first, so that I can start using it (keeping a close eye on it always of course), and then move into special switches and relays from there.

Doubt this is the original color - it's been reprinted several times, based on the layers on the only writing I can find - the patents on the plate that moves back and forth with the cutter. It lists 4 dates, all from the 1890's.

My plan was to clean it up "quick" and reprint it with the same grey/green I have for my south bend. But 2 hours, 1 roll of paper towels and several degreasers later, ive barely scratched the surface grease. :)

Got the wheel looking decent.

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/nortstudio/machining/1C56EE5A-C29A-4FB8-9DCB-D5FD6B6F04CD-216-00000009DE7053EE_zpsf3f0728e.jpg

On a whim, I grabbed a bottle of some BBQ cleaner at Big Lots called "LA's totally awesome grill & oven cleaner." It has worked better than engine degreaser - so I'll keep at it...

If I unearth a name, I'll let you know.

Barrington
10-11-2013, 11:55 AM
Is the knife switch simply a manual on/off control or part of an automatic trip operating at the end of the cut?

Cheers

.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 12:47 PM
It's just a manual on/off switch. And also apparently powers up weird experiments on monster-like creatures :)

I think there may be some type of mechanical shut-off triggered by the plate that slides along with the blade arm. But I haven't been able to figure that part out yet....

Still cleaning!

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 12:59 PM
I believe I may have found the manufacturer. Some type Miller Falls saw - but of course this one has been modified a ton.

Link below shows another couple versions, and some info.

Miller falls saw info (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/video-millers-falls-saw-114373/)

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 01:00 PM
I believe I may have found the manufacturer. Some type Miller Falls saw - but of course this one has been modified a ton.

Link below shows another couple versions, and some info.

Miller falls saw info (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/antique-machinery-history/video-millers-falls-saw-114373/)

Mike Amick
10-11-2013, 03:17 PM
Is the knife switch simply a manual on/off control or part of an automatic trip operating at the end of the cut?
.

Barrington brings up a really good point. If you do utilize an automatic cutoff switch for
end of cut, you are going to need to hook it up to the disable or stop contacts within
the VFD itself. The reason everyone is telling you to get rid of the Frankenstein switch
is .. its a big no no to break the circuit between the VFD and the motor. Blows the VFD.

Mike

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 03:33 PM
Thanks mike. I think I understand the idea of not having the machine operate power instead of the VFD. For this situation - the VFD will be in complete control.

The only auto "shut-off" that may (or may not be) working on this machine is a mechanical one - not electrical. There is a plate that may slide back when the cut if finished, causing the engage lever to flip back, which effectively triggers a "clutch" of sorts on the large wheel. When I pull this lever back wile turning the wheel by hand, it stops moving the cutting blade arm.

It's definitely not like the modern saw that have a tab that flips the power switch when finished. The motor will still be running, but the blade will stop moving. Does that make sense? Hard to describe without some specific photos.

I'm now wondering if the line should have some type of fuse between the wall power and the VFD itself...

Martin0001
10-11-2013, 04:22 PM
This machine was giving good service with an old on/off switch for 60 or 80 years.
It have cut more stock than you ever will in your life...
Does it really need VFD?

mwooten
10-11-2013, 04:44 PM
This is a nice switch to put before the VFD http://ab.rockwellautomation.com/Motor-Control/NEMA-Manual-Motor-Starters
I recommend fuses before the switch sized to protect the wire. You can set the VFD to run at power up. (When you flip the switch). You should set the overload parameter in the VFD to your motor size. If you can find the VFD model number I can help. I'm a controls engineer by day. Machinist pretender by night.

--Mike

garyhlucas
10-11-2013, 04:49 PM
This machine was giving good service with an old on/off switch for 60 or 80 years.
It have cut more stock than you ever will in your life...
Does it really need VFD?
No and yes. No to making it work better, yes to keeping the 3 phase motor when you don't have 3 phase power!

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 04:56 PM
No and yes. No to making it work better, yes to keeping the 3 phase motor when you don't have 3 phase power!

Gary, you beat me to it! I was going to say "no, unless I want to plug it into the wall and use it." :)

Seriously though martin, this was just a cheaper way to get this 3PH motor running (already had been working great) on the power I have at my disposal.

Mwooton. I'm headed back to the shop and will post specs ASAP.

Thanks folks.

Martin0001
10-11-2013, 05:20 PM
Yeah.... I am a bit close minded, though in the countryside where I live 3 phase is taken for granted.
:)
Few years ago my friend from a city (where they are *singlephased*) was designing 100 A power supply (DC) without resorting to inverter tech.
Poor guy have sketched some sad diagrams calling for 1F capacitor and other similar horrible items and asked me for advice.
I had a look and I have found that there are only 4 diodes in his bridge rectifier and it was so obvious to me that there should be 6 of them... and then that horrible 1F capacitor would disappear for good and be replaced by a reasonable 1000uF or so.
And with a custom wound transformer of little bit more advanced design 12 diodes would be needed, but the output current could be as DC as it possibly can get... and without buffer capacitor at all...
But he was *singlephased*, so both of these options were closed to him.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 05:53 PM
Ironically, when I lived in Brooklyn - 3 phase. Now that I'm in the country in vermo t...single phase. Little frustrating.

I have the specs though:

The VFD is a teco JNEV-101-H1
The motor is a GE.
1725/1425
3/4 HP
V=208-220/440
A=2.6/1.3
CX=60/50
SF=1.0 (no idea what this is???)

As best I can tell from the rats best, the motor was previously being run in low voltage.

Thanks for all the help folks. Any advice on basic set up is much appreciated.

Rosco-P
10-11-2013, 06:06 PM
If the saw isn't likely to see service 8 hours a day sawing heavy stock, I'd keep the switch and wiring, run it on 220 and just kick-start the 3ph motor with a capacitor and pushbutton.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 06:30 PM
If the saw isn't likely to see service 8 hours a day sawing heavy stock, I'd keep the switch and wiring, run it on 220 and just kick-start the 3ph motor with a capacitor and pushbutton.

Definitely not going to see 8 hours a day - but 8 hours ago I bought the VFD :mad:

MaxHeadRoom
10-11-2013, 06:33 PM
This is a nice switch to put before the VFD

--Mike
I wouldn't consider that a good switch to put in front of a VFD, that is more for on line starting direct with a contactor.
At first the motor could be started in the local mode with the keypad, but the contactor on the input and the stop start with remote buttons is the usual way.
Max.

Martin0001
10-11-2013, 06:48 PM
SF is *service factor*.
Here you have more about this animal:
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/service-factor-d_735.html
Value of 1 is in agreement with standards.

Here is a thread on this forum dealing with identical item to one which you want to install:
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/showthread.php/1919-New-Teco-VFD-Install-Enclosure-3-PH-Motor

As per my taste there should be nothing special about wiring.
Identify input terminals and connect these to your plug.

Identify output and connect them to your motor.
Output terminals will be marked as L1, L2, L3.
Your motor is most likely winded *in star* configuration, and because it is a low power one then it is unlikely to have neutral terminal connected to the centre of star.
So neutral terminal is to be used to secure safety earthing of the beast and there might but by no means must be some N terminal in the motor terminal box to facilitate that.
Sometimes 3 phase system has 5 wires with 2 neutrals, where one is neutral and second is safety neutral.
If so, then connect safety neutral to casing of the motor or to your machine.
It is nice to have machines earthed if some swarf get somewhere where it is not welcomed...
If you find that motor is rotating "wrong way around", then swap any of 2 live wires, eg L1 and L2, L2 and L3 or L1 and L3.
This will make motor rotating the right way.

It is simple really, but if you are in doubt, call electrician.
There is also an American-only problem, where the phase voltage is low (110V) and there are possibly 2 sets of outputs from your VFD device, the second set would allow to run European motors.
As you have found, your motor is working with such low voltages (~210V in 3 phase system is an evidence of that).
So you must identify the right set of output terminals from your VFD device.
Take multimeter, set it for a range of 500V and AC and check voltages.
Correct set of terminals will show ~110V between any live terminal and N and also about 210V between any 2 live terminals.
Incorrect set will show about 400V between phases, say between L1 and L2 and ~230 V between any of phases and neutral.
They should also be marked and documented in wiring diagram supplied with device.

I hope, that helps.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 06:54 PM
Sorry max. It seems I'm getting more confused here. Are you saying I need something in addition to the VFD in order for this to work?

The switch that is on it was connected to both the wall outlet and then the motor. The motor would not have seen power prior to the switch being thrown (Dracula laughter soundtrack inserted here).

I had planned on removing the switch, taking power from the house into the single phase side of the VFD, and plugging the motor leads into the VFD.

Mentions here, as well as other research has shown up some options for relays, and now your mention of remote switches etc. if possible, I'd like to understand the bare bones way to get this to function safely (for both motor and me!), and then delve into the options.

Please forgive my ignorance. I'm Stumbling through this learning curve...

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 07:03 PM
I should also mention that unlike a lathe or mill, I really only need this thing to get going. The blade will take care of everything I need - as long as its moving. In researching this - I find post all referring to reversing direction ( which I thought I could do with swapping the leads to the motor), variable speed control etc.

Although these are all great functions for some machines - it's overkill for my needs. This thing will be cutting aluminum and steel, hopefully for a long time to come...

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 07:19 PM
Martin,

Thanks so much - you're speaking my language. Appreciate the link. I was just reading the same post when I saw I had a reply here. I will finish that up quick and see how much confusion it can't melt away :)

The VFD unit I have has only 1 set of outputs for the motor. I confirmed that it would work with the motor I have with the folks at dealers industrial.

While I totally understand the need for ground - I am not sure where the wire is for it on the motor. All leads coming from the motor seem to be spoken for and are connected as follows (matching the "low voltage diagram inside the motor cover):

T1-T7 together
T2-T5 together
T3-T9 together
T4,5 & 6 together.

The VFD definitely has a ground terminal for both the single and 3 phase side. Does it ground through this?

Not sure if this info/how to determine star vs delta set up.

I have a friend who will be checking this before I fry something. But if like to get it set up well before he gets here on monday. And of course, I'd really like to have a better grasp of this myself.

All your patience is much appreciated.

Barrington
10-11-2013, 07:27 PM
While I totally understand the need for ground - I am not sure where the wire is for it on the motor. All leads coming from the motor seem to be spoken for and are connected as follows (matching the "low voltage diagram inside the motor cover):

T1-T7 together
T2-T5 (?) together
T3-T9 together
T4,5 & 6 together.
Here you go:-

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/MrBarrington/MotorConns_zpsc7fa5ab3.png

Cheers

.

motopreserve
10-11-2013, 07:38 PM
Here you go:-

http://i564.photobucket.com/albums/ss82/MrBarrington/MotorConns_zpsc7fa5ab3.png

Cheers

.

Thanks so much Barrington. Typo there - it was supposed to be T8. Damn iPhone! :)

This seems to make sense (yikes!). The only question now is where the ground comes from. On the VFD there is a place for a ground connection (PH). But I don't see a ground wire coming from inside the motor with the rest of the leads. Can I ground the chassis? Or do I need to get in there and dig around/install one?

MaxHeadRoom
10-11-2013, 07:41 PM
Sorry max. It seems I'm getting more confused here. Are you saying I need something in addition to the VFD in order for this to work?

The switch that is on it was connected to both the wall outlet and then the motor. The motor would not have seen power prior to the switch being thrown (Dracula laughter soundtrack inserted here).

I had planned on removing the switch, taking power from the house into the single phase side of the VFD, and plugging the motor leads into the VFD.

Mentions here, as well as other research has shown up some options for relays, and now your mention of remote switches etc. if possible, I'd like to understand the bare bones way to get this to function safely (for both motor and me!), and then delve into the options.

Please forgive my ignorance. I'm Stumbling through this learning curve...

If you want the bare bones set up then you run single phase in to the VFD and three phase to the motor and control it locally through the keypad, but ideally you would want to use the remote input start contact with P.B. set up, also as I pointed out a emergency stop which drops a contactor out on the input side of the VFD.
You need to run a service ground to the VFD and to the frame of the motor. There should be one in the terminal box, if not implement or create one.
Max.

Martin0001
10-12-2013, 07:40 AM
Thanks so much Barrington. Typo there - it was supposed to be T8. Damn iPhone! :)

This seems to make sense (yikes!). The only question now is where the ground comes from. On the VFD there is a place for a ground connection (PH). But I don't see a ground wire coming from inside the motor with the rest of the leads. Can I ground the chassis? Or do I need to get in there and dig around/install one?

As I have noticed before, many low power motors don't have a ground connected to the "center of the star".
That would help to distribute power by the way and prevent or delay motor damage, for example if one of phases gone tripped (disappeared) but in your case it is irrelevant.
So connect ground terminal (N) to construction of your machine or to casing of the motor.
Don't neglect it regardless that motor would work perfectly without doing so and if in doubt, consult your electrician friend or show him what you have done when he comes for inspection.

He will give you more hints if he sees that job is done right, otherwise he will make connections right but will also hesitate to say too much out of concern that this might be misunderstood (at least if he is a reasonable man).

motopreserve
10-12-2013, 07:45 AM
Thanks Max (and everyone else!).

I think I have a handle on it now. I'm going to get all my ducks in a row, while I continue to clean the damn thing. I'll source an emergency shut off switch as well. I planned on having the VFD at the machine itself, so I'll decide on the remote start at a later date.

I realized that some of my confusion (or lack of understanding) came from only reading the printed manual (text so small I used my magnifying glass). The CD that came with the VFD (arrived at the houses last night) is much more in depth, or at least clearer to me.

I really appreciate all the help and patience. Hopefully this saw will provide many more years of faithful service. My initial intention was to just scrape the grime off - and put it into action. But upon getting down to the base layers, I'm thinking of reprinting it for both protection and cosmetic purposes. I'll post a pic when I'm finished.

Scott

Barrington
10-12-2013, 09:07 AM
So connect ground terminal (N) to construction of your machine or to casing of the motor.
Connect GROUND yes, but do NOT connect Neutral to the chassis of the machine !!!

This is not a supervised/monitored industrial installation of fixed equipment - it's 'portable' machinery in a domestic environment.

Cheers


.

MaxHeadRoom
10-12-2013, 10:42 AM
The service earth ground should only be connected to the neutral at the service entry point and the neutral should not contact earth ground anywhere else in the installation.
The exception is on a local control transformer secondary where a secondary neutral is set up at the transformer terminals by re-referencing to earth ground.
Max.

Martin0001
10-12-2013, 10:59 AM
It is not uncommon to find that 3 phase system has 4, not 5 terminals as it is recently required by wiring legislation in Europe at least.
In such situation ground terminal is often useless, particularly if motor run takes only 3 live wires in.
Construction of plugs and sockets makes it impossible to misconnect it somehow, unless deliberate action is taken.
It is a common practice to use such terminal for earthing machinery and I have seen it in many places.
I have also seen a wire, commercially installed one, connecting service point meant for Neutral with a chasis of 3 phase motor.
Of course with current 5 wire standard there is no issue.
Machine is earthed by additional safety ground wire.

As per grounding of circuitry around transformer it is worth to realize that circuitry on both sides might have different ideas about what ground means...

http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mxfABXCz9dHfmDnjsPh2osA.jpg
http://thumbs3.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/mV220TG8kK7gqOjxvKxkoIA.jpg
For clarity I have enclosed pictures of both.
5 prong model (top picture) is is now being recommended.

Edit:
Inserted photos of both types of plug.

lakeside53
10-12-2013, 11:19 AM
Can we keep the discussion for the original poster location.. (USA)? Other power systems have little to no relevance here and are just going to confuse him more!

Martin0001 : please fill in your profile location details so we know where your knowledge base applies.

Moto - Maxheadroom as it correct. In the USA, never connect the service neutral to ground at the machine.

You can connect your incoming ground to the VFD and to the Chassis of your machine. If the motor does not have a ground as part of the wire bundle and is not in good contact with the chassis (like with a wimpy tension adjuster or whatever) strap from the motor to the chassis. When I'm rewiring for a vfd I'll often replace the power cord to the motor with a liquid-tight flexible conduit and run 4 wires, or replace the 3 wire cord with 4 wire, grounding the motor at the input box screws or other provided ground connection. The new motor ground is now connected to the VFD common ground point.

BTW, in this context the VFD output does not have any relevance to neutral. For all intents consider the VFD output to be "delta" - no "neutral is generated or required. The only neutral in this case is the INPUT power single phase neutral from the 240 or 120v power and the only place it connects is to the vfd input.

Barrington
10-12-2013, 11:52 AM
It is not uncommon to find that 3 phase system has 4, not 5 terminals as it is recently required by wiring legislation in Europe at least.4 pin: L1 L2 L3 GND
5 pin: L1 L2 L3 N GND

Recently ????

Cheers

.

MaxHeadRoom
10-12-2013, 12:32 PM
Just to add.. In N.A. unless the VFD is a 120v model the 230v model inputs are usually marked with 3ph R,S,T, with usually the R & S generally being used for the 240v 1ph supply, but in some cases confusion arises as they can also be label R, S/N, T. indicating neutral on the S terminal.
This is because the models are sold world wide and in many countries the 240v is 1ph and neutral.
In N.A. the neutral designation would be ignored.
Max.

motopreserve
10-12-2013, 05:55 PM
Guys, I really can't thank you enough. All this info (and the research it hatched) has made my brain want to explode. But I'm the better for it.

I was out of the loop (pun intended) all day moving the majority of my shop from the garage to a new space. Been slowly getting it ready - but today was for big heavy stuff. Extremely excited to finally have a 400 sq foot space all to myself. Let the chips start flying, and bring on the bikes!

For clarification:
I live in Vermont, USA. So the advice for NA is appropriate for me. Always interesting to hear how they do it across the pond...but see brain explosion above. :)

The VFD I got (Teco JNEV-101-H1) has just the terminals for the N.A. Style I guess. It lists L1-3 & PE (ground) and T1-3 & PE. There are 2 terminals for pos & neg under a DC sticker - I assume for control hook up. The massive CD manual should clear all that up, once it's done printing.

I am going to wire this thing up using the advice I got here, and then have my pal check it for accuracy.

Appreciate all the feedback and help. Hopefully, before too long, I'll have a nice photo to post of a clean cut piece of aluminum...

Scott

macona
10-12-2013, 06:33 PM
+ and - are for access to the DC Buss. Dont mess with that, it is going to be around 400v.

You really dont need an estop. Hitting the stop button will stop it way faster than it would have running on three phase and just killing the power will just make it free wheel to a stop instead of coming to a quick, controlled stop. If it was a fully automatic machine then I could see an e-stop.

Do not use the keypad, the keys are not meant for every day use, put the VFD in a NEMA cabinet and use a generic start/stop switch to control the motor. If you really want you can use a mushroom button for your stop to make it easier to hit.

If you are not running the vfd on an appropriate sized outlet you should have a breaker in the cabinet with the vfd.

motopreserve
10-12-2013, 09:17 PM
+ and - are for access to the DC Buss. Dont mess with that, it is going to be around 400v.

I definitely appreciated the sticker over those - forces you to look up their function first thing :)

I'll look into a remote switch. I'm not going to be using this so much that I would wear out the switches. At least not at first....

I'm going to install a breaker in the service box dedicated to this saw, terminating to its own outlet on the wall by the machine. My last question would be whether I need a separate ground coming from the service - if the ground will already be coming from the service box and hitting the VFD (through the extension wire I made for the run from wall hard wired to VFD)? That outlet will be grounded to the main ground in the building through the breaker, no?.

lakeside53
10-12-2013, 09:21 PM
Not "though the breaker" -the ground wire is contiguous back to the ground bar in the panel. You will not need a "separate" ground wire - the ground in the outlet/cable is fine.

motopreserve
10-12-2013, 09:59 PM
Not "though the breaker" -the ground wire is contiguous back to the ground bar in the panel. You will not need a "separate" ground wire - the ground in the outlet/cable is fine.

Sorry. Meant the breaker box. I figured the ground comibg straight from the box should ve sufficient. Thanks for the confirmation. I should be set to roll...as soon as I can find a box for the VFD. New to the area - so I'm sleuthing all my local suppliers.

lakeside53
10-12-2013, 10:08 PM
If you put the vfd in a box it with needs to be fairly large or have adequate ventilation. My favorite method is to have the vfd heatsink protrude out the back of the enclosure; then the rest can be enclosed. Alternatively (below) a standard nema box 12x12x6 works fine for your vfd, with a surplus computer fan (thermostat controlled) and a screened exit vent. The fan(s) should push into the box, or you'll just create a vacuum cleaner where your vfd is in the bag!

Here's a 3hp Teco in a 12x12x6 nema rainproof electrical box. 2x 3 inch fan in the bottom, filter above, and the exit vent on the left. The filter is optional - this installation was in a filthy environment (below a belt grinder). The thermostat is in the top of the box; the other components are a 24v volt power supply and a contactor. The thermostat was included to prolong the life of the filters. The fans almost never turn on for my typical short uses.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/x72%20Belt%20grinder/DSCN2351Medium.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/lakeside53/media/x72%20Belt%20grinder/DSCN2351Medium.jpg.html)

The remote operator console from the same installation.
http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/x72%20Belt%20grinder/DSCN2362Medium.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/lakeside53/media/x72%20Belt%20grinder/DSCN2362Medium.jpg.html)

motopreserve
10-12-2013, 10:32 PM
i don't think mine came with a heat sink. its plain plastic on the back.

SGW
10-12-2013, 10:50 PM
Minor diversion: you may already know this about power hacksaws, but just in case.... You may see some sort of cam arrangement on the blade travel mechanism. Its function is to lift the blade off the work on the return stroke.

lakeside53
10-12-2013, 11:58 PM
i don't think mine came with a heat sink. its plain plastic on the back.

Like the above pic the Teco's heat sink is enclosed (you can remove the plastic), but the Hitachi WJ series have theirs nicely exposed.

Then you can do things like this:

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0858Custom_zpse615a7c2.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/lakeside53/media/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0858Custom_zpse615a7c2.jpg.html)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0879Custom_zpsc5944fde.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/lakeside53/media/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0879Custom_zpsc5944fde.jpg.html)

Hinge the entire box over an access panel for the motor.

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0878Custom_zpsdcab55b6.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/lakeside53/media/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0878Custom_zpsdcab55b6.jpg.html)

http://i238.photobucket.com/albums/ff150/lakeside53/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0883Custom_zpse643ab79.jpg (http://s238.photobucket.com/user/lakeside53/media/Clausing%20conversion/AND_0883Custom_zpse643ab79.jpg.html)

motopreserve
10-13-2013, 05:23 AM
thanks lakeside. not sure I get the logic of hiding a heat sink, especially behind plastic, but as long as it works...

SGW. I have seen these power saws in action. Awkward, strange, wonderful machines :)

mwooten
10-15-2013, 10:21 AM
I wouldn't consider that a good switch to put in front of a VFD, that is more for on line starting direct with a contactor.
At first the motor could be started in the local mode with the keypad, but the contactor on the input and the stop start with remote buttons is the usual way.
Max.

You should consider that a good switch.
If you intend to use the 2 or 3 wire start option like it is an industrial application then your going to need a way to drop power to the VFD. This requires more stuff. So unless you intend to install a Main Control Panel simply supplying power to the VFD and letting it self start is the simplest option

--Mike

macona
10-15-2013, 04:50 PM
Drop power to the VFD? Put a plug on the end of it.

It is NOT recommended to start/stop a vfd by applying power.

motopreserve
10-15-2013, 07:43 PM
The past few posts have confused me even more... :) I went ahead and stuck to my original plan of keeping it simple, and wiring it plain. This is where I netted out...

1. Dedicated breaker at the service box
2. Romex into the shop space, with all wiring secure and confirmed with multimeter.
3. Outlet installed, grounded and confirmed. This out let is turned on separately with a switch (not sure if this solved Macona's concern???).
4. I found a start/stop box in the massive outer warehouse space, which was unused. So I nabbed it. Going to install that for just the hot wire between power and VFD. Wanted to test it first though.
5. Wired the VFD (checked continuity to make sure I did it right) with power.
6. Used super fancy 4 wire cable (waterproof - used on ships) to run from VFD to the motor - friend gave it to me.
7. Test it as per instructions in the manual.
8. Cut metal.....

Here's the start/stop switch:

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee427/nortstudio/AF0E376B-51D2-409E-8602-599AEBD77B07-5327-0000022DDFADEE52_zpsbbbdc586.jpg
Thanks to all of you who replied with advice - the following video was made possible by you!

http://youtu.be/U37DZeYcWns