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aboard_epsilon
10-18-2013, 11:09 AM
I now have what looks like, the right type of belt for my smart and brown 1024 lathe

maker Forbo Siegling, brand EXTREMULTUS

As you can see I've got plenty of chances to get this right,
Roll is 25 foot

Problem is, I don't know what type of adhesive to use

The belt is a multilayer leather and nylon/polyamide construction


..I spoke to the makers of the belt ..they say some obscure product called k2000 cement for the polyamide and pva for the leather .

after applying k2000 to the belt,it has to be clamped and heated to 115 degrees c for 30 mins ..and left to cool down, still clamped, for 12 hours.


I've searched the net ..and came up with too many results on alternatives ..
So need an expert on adhesives to to point me out an inexpensive (CHEAP)..sort of vulcanising adhesive that acts the same as k2000, I'd like ..A brand name, that I can find on UK ebay


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/smart%20and%20brown/rollbelt_zpsae077a59.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aboard_epsilon/media/smart%20and%20brown/rollbelt_zpsae077a59.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/smart%20and%20brown/insideofbelt_zps9a5666f4.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aboard_epsilon/media/smart%20and%20brown/insideofbelt_zps9a5666f4.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/aboard_epsilon/smart%20and%20brown/outsidebelt_zps59f6dd4a.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/aboard_epsilon/media/smart%20and%20brown/outsidebelt_zps59f6dd4a.jpg.html)

all the best.markj

dp
10-18-2013, 11:55 AM
There's this site:
http://www.thistothat.com/

Dunno if it's accurate or even complete, but it's damn clever.

winchman
10-18-2013, 12:01 PM
That's a serious piece of belt for a 10x24 lathe.

Is this an option?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/winchman/2013-10-18_1205_belt_lacing_zpsa5efb18d.png

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/1059/=ozojy9

Tilaran
10-18-2013, 12:10 PM
http://www.leatherdrivebelts.com/

flylo
10-18-2013, 12:12 PM
I believe guys here using serpentine belts had good luck with Liquid Nails Plastic Adhesive in the squeeze tube available at most home centers.

ckelloug
10-18-2013, 01:49 PM
Some googling and some knowledge suggest that K2000 is a resorcinol based glue: http://www.forbo-siegling.com/pages/download/data_sheets/downloads/msds_us/sd842_-_K2000_Cement_(USA).pdf
There appears to exist a dap weldwood resorcinol wood glue. Some forums suggest that epoxy has largely replaced resourcinol in boat building however it looks like something about resorcinol may be better
at sticking to polyamide than other things. Hope this is mildly useful.

aboard_epsilon
10-18-2013, 04:25 PM
Some googling and some knowledge suggest that K2000 is a resorcinol based glue: http://www.forbo-siegling.com/pages/download/data_sheets/downloads/msds_us/sd842_-_K2000_Cement_(USA).pdf
There appears to exist a dap weldwood resorcinol wood glue. Some forums suggest that epoxy has largely replaced resourcinol in boat building however it looks like something about resorcinol may be better
at sticking to polyamide than other things. Hope this is mildly useful.

sort of , but I have other things that I would want to be an expert at ..glue isn't on my list ..


I did spend a few hours looking for it ..and that safety data sheet pdf kept coming up nothing else.

other than this


http://www.forbo-siegling.com/pages/brochures/technical/download/316-fms_extremultus-flat-belts_en.pdf

shows the heated clamping equipment on the right side of the page .

which I can knock up with a domestic iron.

wonder if "solvent weld" will do it ..that's the stuff plumbers put on pipes ,it actually melts the plastics together.

all the best.markj

Rosco-P
10-18-2013, 06:07 PM
That's a serious piece of belt for a 10x24 lathe.

Is this an option?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/winchman/2013-10-18_1205_belt_lacing_zpsa5efb18d.png

http://www.mcmaster.com/#catalog/119/1059/=ozojy9

That would be my choice as well. Have two such belts running on an Chas Allen drill press, belt will wear out before the lacing does and it is not noisy at all.

Davidhcnc
10-18-2013, 06:12 PM
This page http://www.print-partner.eu/Feeder-belts,k28414,en shows the iron and the adhesive and its intended belts. They are used in printing press "feeder belts" aka "feeder tapes" You want Adhesive for Feeder Belts

There would be printing press parts suppliers in your country that have this. The name of the product just escapes me but I would have it on a memory stick full of parts drawings somewhere and could report back in a few days.

I have seen it on ebay and it really works.

aboard_epsilon
10-18-2013, 07:15 PM
This page http://www.print-partner.eu/Feeder-belts,k28414,en shows the iron and the adhesive and its intended belts. They are used in printing press "feeder belts" aka "feeder tapes" You want Adhesive for Feeder Belts

There would be printing press parts suppliers in your country that have this. The name of the product just escapes me but I would have it on a memory stick full of parts drawings somewhere and could report back in a few days.

I have seen it on ebay and it really works.

OK David I await eagerly for your reply in a few days time .

why do you speak of my country ..when it says next to your name : UK

all the best.markj

duckman
10-18-2013, 11:33 PM
I cut and scarfed the ends of a serpentine then glued with Crazy Glue gel on my SB 9" 1 1/2 years ago and its still holding I do release the tension when I'm done for the day.

Yow Ling
10-19-2013, 02:14 AM
I have a Smart and Brown lathe, when the old belt died i rang a conveyer belt company, they turned up with some belt, synthetic both sides they cut a wedge both ends applied gule clamped and cooked it for maybe 10 min , job done. I dont slacken it off when not in use. by the time you buy a 50year supply of the glue and the cooker and the gizmo that cut the tapers you would be way over the $100 i paid 55 quid in your country , he had to travel 20 miles each way too !

GEP
10-19-2013, 08:35 AM
I have a 16" South Bend Lathe and just recently installed a new belt. Just want to say, stay with a good quality leather belt and a alligator claw fastener.Serpentinee belts are a waist of time energy and money. There is no good glue available to glue them and you will have to glue them with ways and length ways. I had a belt so i was all set but if you need to buy one there is a seller in Lansing,Ill . He will make one for you If you need to figure out how long you need it let me know i will explain it to you

aboard_epsilon
10-19-2013, 10:26 AM
I have a 16" South Bend Lathe and just recently installed a new belt. Just want to say, stay with a good quality leather belt and a alligator claw fastener.Serpentinee belts are a waist of time energy and money. There is no good glue available to glue them and you will have to glue them with ways and length ways. I had a belt so i was all set but if you need to buy one there is a seller in Lansing,Ill . He will make one for you If you need to figure out how long you need it let me know i will explain it to you

The belt has to be glued up in situ ..
The pulleys are crowned

There is no tensioner ..and it has to be exact .

The tension is put on it by tightening the gearbox down on its mountings....onto a flat plate on which it is mounted...you cant have it tensioned fully and the gearbox not sitting on the flat plate .

So you have to, somehow, judge the amount of stretch the belt has, when cutting it to size.

and the top speed is 2500 rpm

all the best.markj

willmac
10-19-2013, 10:43 AM
Mark -

I think some of the contributors have got the impression that because we are talking about a flat belt drive that it must be for an old slow running lathe. Not so in this case. The Smart & Brown 1024 has many design features that are 'old school' but they are taken to the limit - the flat belt drives are an example. I get the impression that the designers were determined to do things their way no matter the cost to the purchaser or the user. The non adjustable spindle drive belt is a case in point. The lack of tapered gibs is another. I have a 1024 and at times I think it is one of the best small lathes ever, and then some strange feature makes me think - why did they do it like that?

Please post the results of your belt repair - good or bad. I am sure I am not alone in wanting to know how to do this before it is my time to make the same repair.

Yow Ling
10-19-2013, 04:41 PM
Heres the belt I had fitted

http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/YowLingRacing/P1000647.jpg (http://s975.photobucket.com/user/YowLingRacing/media/P1000647.jpg.html)

http://i975.photobucket.com/albums/ae234/YowLingRacing/P1000646.jpg (http://s975.photobucket.com/user/YowLingRacing/media/P1000646.jpg.html)

doctor demo
10-19-2013, 07:53 PM
The belt has to be glued up in situ ..
The pulleys are crowned

There is no tensioner ..and it has to be exact .

The tension is put on it by tightening the gearbox down on its mountings....onto a flat plate on which it is mounted...you cant have it tensioned fully and the gearbox not sitting on the flat plate .

all the best.markj

I don't want to start a fight or debate about what is right or wrong or how to do a "proper" belt retrofit .......but if it were Me, I would be thinking of how to add a belt tensioner into the equation. It would sure make it lot easier now and in the future, and possibly increase belt life.

Steve

Duffy
10-19-2013, 08:21 PM
Since you have a "lifetime" supply of belting, I suggest that you try a polyurethane glue on a scarf joint. Here the brand is Gorilla Glue. It bonds to just about ANYTHING and sets in about 24 hours. How you get the tension right is a puzzle. I would put a couple of pins in a rigid plastic backing, center them on the scarf, apply the glue , force the upper scarf over the pins and put a matching plastic clamp bar on top; a pair of c-clamps, (g-cramps to you:rolleyes:,) say a prayer and wait til the morrow. I know that this sounds pretty "shade tree," but sometimes we tend to overthink things.
Best of luck!

malbenbut
10-20-2013, 08:51 AM
On the Smart and Brown 1024 the space between the belt and the headstock walls is very small, fitting clips or overlapping belts may foul the head casting.
MBB

Rustybolt
10-20-2013, 10:09 AM
I'm surprised the belting company didn't also supply the adhesive. When we had to replace a drive belt on an Index that's the way the belting came.

Rustybolt
10-20-2013, 10:10 AM
And to add. I'd use what the belting company advised. They've been doing it for awhile.

aboard_epsilon
10-20-2013, 01:18 PM
Probably be something like 150 a tin, for the stuff ..I dared not ask !

Companies are like that in the uk

All the best.markj

MrSleepy
10-20-2013, 01:45 PM
There is a German company called Renia who make a range of impressive glues.

http://www.renia.com/prospekte_E/products_E.pdf

I have used Klebfest... its made for shoemakers and menders , and deals with leathers exceptionally well ,but is not good on polyamides such as nylon kevlar etc.

They have a product called Syntic Total that has the ability to glue PVCs and Nylons as well as leathers.

Klebfest is available on UK ebay for 4 a tube , but the only places I've found for Syntic total are boat builder suppliers (in 5ltr drums)and industrial outlets.

But Ebay.de has a few sellers for smaller tubes (eu7).

http://www.ebay.de/itm/RENIA-Syntic-Total-Universalkleber-Kunststoffe-90g-7-72-100g-NEU-/170843097998

Rob

Davidhcnc
10-23-2013, 06:46 AM
..I have sent you a PM.