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View Full Version : Anyone have A.R. Warner HSS-insert tools?



TN Pat
11-02-2013, 01:54 PM
How do, fellas. Got another question for the nice folks here at HSM...

In doing my endless machining research, I stumbled upon this company - http://www.arwarnerco.com/

They manufacture, in addition to HSS blanks and indexable lathe toolholders, high speed steel indexable inserts for said holders. To me, this seems like an interesting idea, and I'd like to know more about these, if anyone here has experience with 'em.

I do know grinding your own tools from HSS blanks is a bit more versatile, possibly more economical. It's also not too hard to learn - I've become somewhat decent at it so far (10 months into a machining course at a local trade school - still really a complete novice!)

Regardless, I'm just looking for some info and opinions on these tools. Much appreciated.

Weston Bye
11-02-2013, 03:45 PM
Yep, use them nearly exclusively, for general turning and facing in aluminum, brass, steel and plastic. I use one of the holders in the kit for sharpening.

I also use their grooving/threading tool and their cutoff tool and their boring tool.

Kinda sounds like I'm sold on their products. They also have added some carbide inserts too.

Note that this is mostly on a Sherline lathe.

Beazld
11-02-2013, 05:06 PM
[I]Disclaimer[I]I am not a "real" machinist nor did I sleep in a Holiday Inn Express last night.Now that that is out of the way, in some people's opinion, I don't own "real " machine tools (I have a Sherline lathe and mill) but I own the Warner holders and HS inserts and I really love them. A. They are made in the USA, 2, they have great consistency and quality control, and iii, they have great service. I have used them on Al, Brass, SS, steel, CI, and plastics and they work well with the tools I have and the skill sets I pocess. Not to say I dont use carbide or grind my own on occasion, but 95% of the time i am using my Warner tools.

rolland
11-02-2013, 06:44 PM
I whole heartly agree with the above great company and product.

gunsmither
11-03-2013, 01:19 AM
I whole heartly agree with the above great company and product.

Me too. Great items!

DFMiller
11-03-2013, 05:17 AM
Ditto,
Great stuff and awesome company. The owner is occasional found posting here.
Just a satisfied customer. I use them on my old myford clone.
Dave

TN Pat
11-03-2013, 08:19 AM
Wow, they must be a good product. It's rare to see five successive posts that praise a product of any kind, haha! Thanks a bunch, guys. I'll see if I can't pick up a turning tool and some inserts soon.

Quick question - I notice their website says that their HSS inserts are better-suited to low-SFM operations, or something like that. Does that mean lower than normal for HSS, or just compared to carbide? I'd hate to burn one up the first day I get it, haha... been there, done that...

ormachine
11-03-2013, 09:26 AM
TN Pat- I believe they say that compared to using a CNC machine that can run at a much higher RPM than most manual machines likely to be found in a home shop environment. I have their products also and am real happy with them.

Ron

PS4steam
11-03-2013, 09:41 AM
Just to add some info. I use them also and have many of their tools. Actually three sets one for each machine, like the groover for all sorts of applications. They have told me they also make custom cutter shapes

Bob

mc_n_g
11-03-2013, 11:18 AM
I use them too and would recommend them. I also use their cutoff blades.
I swap HSS and carbide inserts (C and T sytles) between several holders. The pockets are the same.
I also purchased one of their stand up threading insert tools about 4 years ago. Have used it regularly. The internal threader needs a larger diameter to thread due to teh size of the inserts.
AR Warner is a stand up company and I never had any problems with them or their products.

adatesman
11-03-2013, 05:24 PM
I have a bunch as well (CCMT for a Clausing 12x36), and like them.

One thing to keep in mind is that there's little to no top rake to the insert (on the CCMT's at least), so they're not as free cutting as they could be on materials that need positive rake. Easy enough to swap in positive rake carbide inserts when that is an issue.

Oh, the holder that lets you use the otherwise wasted corners of the CCMT is kinda handy when you're dealing with roughing interrupted cuts or cutting materials that eat inserts.

kroll
11-03-2013, 05:45 PM
Will these work on SS such as 303 and 316 if not what should be use on a small 12" atlas?I'm new so I have to ask---kroll

Arthur.Marks
11-03-2013, 07:03 PM
Absolutely. The HSS inserts work wonderfully on 300-series stainless. Don't be afraid of O1 either. The grade used is extremely tough with a high hot-hardness. In comparison to plain M2 HSS, you might call it a "super alloy!" :) It is specifically T-15 (http://www.arwarnerco.com/t-material-aisi-t-15.aspx). Very nice stuff.

The only product I have criticism for is the 1/2" diameter, TPMW22_ boring bar (http://www.arwarnerco.com/p-21-kit-14-12-inch-boring-bar-t.aspx). The bar is milled in half for the full boring depth. Why do that?! It makes the rigidity equivalent to a 1/4" diameter bar. The insert is also placed with its cutting edge inside of the 1/2" shank OD. See >here< (http://s771.photobucket.com/user/Arrak_Thumrs/media/Widgets/DSCN5492.jpg.html?sort=3&o=72). It isn't rigid and the pocket placement limits boring depth due to shank interference. The other problem is that other manufacturers' STFPR-2 boring bars--which you would expect to fit the same inserts--don't. The hold down screw for TPMT22_ carbide inserts is larger than that used for the A.R. Warner, HSS, TPMW22_ inserts. The screw doesn't fit through the hole in the insert.

The only boring bar I've found compatible with the TPMW22_ HSS inserts is this one (http://s771.photobucket.com/user/Arrak_Thumrs/media/Widgets/DSCN5493.jpg.html?sort=3&o=71) bought from ENCO. There is also an alternate bar available with a -1 degree (http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PARTPG=INLMKD&PMPXNO=948860&PMAKA=377-1002) lead instead of my -5 degree lead. It has a very limited boring depth as you can see.

[EDIT:] Hmmm... after posting this, I decided to have another go at looking for a boring bar that might fit those inserts. I have only ever owned the -5 degree bar shown above. The ENCO online photo for the -1 degree bar looks exactly the same. Maybe it isn't. I just ordered a NBS 8-2 bar here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121062822609?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649). That is, the -1 degree lead angle bar with a 1/2" shank. Looks like it should solve both issues I have with the A.R. Warner bar. I'll have to report back if it does...

jkilroy
11-03-2013, 08:52 PM
I have OD and ID threading kits from them, as well as thin grooving. Great stuff all around and I would like to add more of their product to my inventory for sure.

DR
11-04-2013, 12:04 PM
I have a bunch as well (CCMT for a Clausing 12x36), and like them.

One thing to keep in mind is that there's little to no top rake to the insert (on the CCMT's at least), so they're not as free cutting as they could be on materials that need positive rake. Easy enough to swap in positive rake carbide inserts when that is an issue.

Oh, the holder that lets you use the otherwise wasted corners of the CCMT is kinda handy when you're dealing with roughing interrupted cuts or cutting materials that eat inserts.

Yeah, their CCMT's don't have the chip breakers that carbide inserts have. IMO, that's disappointing and negates some of their advantage (I suppose you'd have to mold the chip breaker in, wouldn't be easy to grind it and maybe they don't have molding capability in HSS). For non-ferrous, aluminum, brass, plastics high positive, polished, razor sharp aluminum cutting carbide inserts are a better choice.

I have a box of Warner lay down threading inserts that replaced the equivalent in carbide because we couldn't get the RPM to run the carbide without chipping.

adatesman
11-04-2013, 02:36 PM
For non-ferrous, aluminum, brass, plastics high positive, polished, razor sharp aluminum cutting carbide inserts are a better choice.

I recall brass preferring neutral rake due to issues with digging in, but no matter.

What I'd really like (and vaguely recall them having at one point) is a CCM(W?... 11 degree clearance, used in their boring holders), made such that it gave a 4 degree top rake and 7 degree side clearance like a CCMT. That would be sweet, but not much use for swapping in carbide.

In any event, I've never found the neutral rake a problem on my Clausing 5900. But I typically only use the HSS inserts for dusting off finish cuts or cases when neutral rake HSS is appropriate.

adatesman
11-04-2013, 06:46 PM
Clarification of what I said above now that I'm home with the inserts in front of me... The regular HSS inserts are CCMW (same as CCMT, 7 deg clearance but no chip breaker, hence neutral rake). The boring bar ones are CEMW, so similar to CEMT, which are 11 degree clearance, but no chip breaker so neutral rake.

What I'd like is a CEMT holder pitched back at 4 degrees, which would effectively give a CCMT geometry with some top rake while using a flat topped insert.

Arthur.Marks
11-06-2013, 03:07 PM
Hmmm... after posting this, I decided to have another go at looking for a boring bar that might fit those inserts. I have only ever owned the -5 degree bar shown above. The ENCO online photo for the -1 degree bar looks exactly the same. Maybe it isn't. I just ordered a NBS 8-2 bar here (http://www.ebay.com/itm/121062822609?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649). That is, the -1 degree lead angle bar with a 1/2" shank. Looks like it should solve both issues I have with the A.R. Warner bar. I'll have to report back if it does...
The Follow Up: frustratingly close. AR Warner HSS TPMW-22_ inserts have a 60 countersink. The NBS 8-2 bar's 4-40 screw just fits the insert bore. All the 4-40 insert screws I have, though, have an 82 countersink head! So... technically it will fasten down the insert into the boring bar, but I can't imagine the mis-match in countersink angle would be great for chatter :confused: