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View Full Version : surface vs. universal grinder for HSM?



Tony
11-07-2013, 01:00 PM
Would like to open up a discussion on grinders. home shop enviroment.. surface grinder
vs universal (or T&C) grinder -- not sure i even know if there's a difference.

Its my understanding that perhaps both could be made to do a little bit of the other?

ie some small surface grinding with a universal/t&c grinder vs
t&c sharpening with fixtures on a surface grinder?

I do understand they're two different machines but unfortunately there is only one (light) wallet.

Which of the two do you think would give more bang for the buck in a home shop?

Thanks.

loose nut
11-07-2013, 01:10 PM
Surface grinder - primarily for flat surfaces but other shapes can be done with extra attachments.

C and T grinder - primarily for round surfaces like endmill, shell mills etc. reamers, special shapes can be done as can circular grinding. Some can be adapted for small flat surfaces.

Any individual machines capability depends mostly on its design and features plus add on tooling. Some are more flexible than others.

projectnut
11-07-2013, 02:07 PM
To me the surface grinder is more versatile. I've used both surface and T&C grinders over the years. Each requires special attachments to do anything other than the basic functions it's designed for. Surface grinder attachments are generally less expensive and more abundant. A ready to run smaller (6 X 12 - 6 X 18) surface grinder can be purchased for $500.00 t0 $1,500.00 depending on condition, features, and attachments. A decent basic T&C grinder usually costs a minimum of $2000.00 or more.

I recently purchased a Sanford 6 X 12 manual surface grinder in like new condition with a magnetic chuck for a minimal price. It came with 6 wheels and 2 wheel dressing attachments. It works as good as any of the Kent's, DoAll's, Brown & Sharpe's, Harig's or Boyar Schultz machines I've used.

MichaelP
11-07-2013, 11:48 PM
I have and use both, but I find that the surface grinder is used much more often in my HSM environment.

dian
11-08-2013, 02:40 AM
important to note is that on a tcg you can often rotate the spindle in the horizontal plane and also do internal grinding. a sg might not have manual control of the x-axis (traverse).

Ian B
11-08-2013, 09:40 AM
Tony,

Here's a Universal grinder: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Jones-Shipman-1300-Universal-Grinder-/251316211769?pt=UK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Weldin g_Metalworking_Supplies_ET&hash=item3a839d1039#ht_268wt_1162

Basically a cylindrical grinder that can do internal and external diameters.

The snag with using a T&C grinder as a horizontal grinder is depth feed - mine tends to put a depth feed on of about 1/8" :-(

The answer's simple; buy one of each...

Ian

easymike29
11-08-2013, 10:34 AM
With the proper fixtures/accessories a surface grinder can flat grind, ID/OD grind and even grind slots in ID's.

Gene

MichaelP
11-08-2013, 11:54 AM
With the proper fixtures/accessories a surface grinder can flat grind, ID/OD grind and even grind slots in ID's.

GeneGene, could you please expand on ID and ID slot grinding on SGs?

Thanks.

Mike

easymike29
11-08-2013, 12:27 PM
Gene, could you please expand on ID and ID slot grinding on SGs?

Thanks.

Mike

High speed attachment for id grinding on surface grinder'

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Sharpe-High-Speed-Surface-Grinding-Attachment-/250415815710

Gene

easymike29
11-08-2013, 12:31 PM
Gene, could you please expand on ID and ID slot grinding on SGs?

Thanks.

Mike

Motorized centers for OD grinding on a Surface grinder

http://www.harigmfg.com/lectricctrs.html

Gene

easymike29
11-08-2013, 12:39 PM
Gene, could you please expand on ID and ID slot grinding on SGs?

Thanks.

Mike

Am not able to find a picture of the slotting attachment. I'll make a crude drawing of the concept and post it.

Gene

dian
11-08-2013, 02:05 PM
High speed attachment for id grinding on surface grinder'

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Brown-Sharpe-High-Speed-Surface-Grinding-Attachment-/250415815710

Gene

i see its a spindle. but how/what does it get attached to? how is it powered? is it something like a speed head on a mill?

MichaelP
11-08-2013, 02:28 PM
I think I got it. Here is another picture and description: http://www.ebay.com/itm/Boyar-Schultz-HIGH-SPEED-ID-GRINDING-ATTACHMENT-GRINDER-ATTACHMENT-FOR-SURFACE-/400588610793?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5d44f11ce9

Looks like it's mounted on the spindle housing. Then a pulley is attached to the SG spindle, and there is a belt between this large pulley and the smaller one formed at the base of the ID spindle attachment. Something like this:

http://i966.photobucket.com/albums/ae148/MPdisp/Image23.jpg~original (http://s966.photobucket.com/user/MPdisp/media/Image23.jpg.html)

And to grind an ID, one will also need a fixture that will hold and rotate the part. Correct?

easymike29
11-08-2013, 04:59 PM
And to grind an ID, one will also need a fixture that will hold and rotate the part. Correct?

Yes and your picture is correct.

Gene

MichaelP
11-08-2013, 05:08 PM
Thanks Gene. If you have a chance to draw how slotting attachment works, it would be interesting to see.

easymike29
11-08-2013, 10:09 PM
This is really crude

Gene

http://s372.photobucket.com/user/easymike29/media/SLOTATT_zpsefb4f73c.jpg.html

MichaelP
11-09-2013, 12:24 AM
Thanks Gene. Now I can see how it works.

1935Ron
11-10-2013, 04:06 PM
http://35hotrod.smugmug.com/Machines/Work-Shop/2649184_2QHksh#!i=1764443177&k=cp3RBXR
I have a manual sanford and this old reid its nice haveing the power table, thought about selling it cheap , not sure if the vid will come out

Tony
11-11-2013, 05:08 PM
Thanks all. I may have found a good condition manual Capco with mag chuck for ~$1k. (that sound excessive?)
Am looking into shipping costs UK -> Italy.. that may be the deal breaker.

about 14" if I'm not mistaken.

easymike29
11-11-2013, 10:06 PM
Thanks all. I may have found a good condition manual Capco with mag chuck for ~$1k. (that sound excessive?)
Am looking into shipping costs UK -> Italy.. that may be the deal breaker.

about 14" if I'm not mistaken.


Looks like you need to be left handed.

http://www.lathes.co.uk/capco/

Gene

MichaelP
11-11-2013, 11:25 PM
Must have something to do with British driving on the other side of the road. :)

But if the OP doesn't have our type of movements ingrained in his mind yet, right hand reciprocation might be more convenient.

Tony
11-12-2013, 08:50 AM
Its right handed because this particular machine puts material BACK on. :)

You know I hadn't even noticed. I've never surfaced gindededed before so hopefully its
all the same to me. I'm right handed, FWIW.

Anyway I believe its a #3, MK1 18" x 6" -- still waiting on a shipping quote.

Ocean
11-12-2013, 02:21 PM
Shipping quote shouldn't be that hefty for a machine this small; I paid a little north of 250 euro to have my lathe (300 kg) shipped to Italy, and that figure does not include added weight in form of pallet and wooden crate.

easymike29
11-12-2013, 03:48 PM
Its right handed because this particular machine puts material BACK on. :)

You know I hadn't even noticed. I've never surfaced gindededed before so hopefully its
all the same to me. I'm right handed, FWIW.

Anyway I believe its a #3, MK1 18" x 6" -- still waiting on a shipping quote.

Be sure that the spindle is turning in the right direction.

Gene

Tony
11-13-2013, 10:20 AM
this is what they call a 'universal grinder' out in these parts.
It appears to be capable of surface grinding. this one is hydraulic of course.. costs about 1k more than
the capco i mentioned above.

but like i said, this is all new to me. maybe we're talking the same language.
The head doesn't swing 90* around, so I don't believe it can do any cylindrical grinding.
Head might go 20 degrees each way, tops.


http://www.emacchinari.com/upload13/13820050502)%20foto%20Affilatrice%20universale%20T ACCHELLA%20mod.35LA.JPG

easymike29
11-13-2013, 10:50 AM
this is what they call a 'universal grinder' out in these parts.
It appears to be capable of surface grinding. this one is hydraulic of course.. costs about 1k more than
the capco i mentioned above.


It may be hydraulic but I don't see any trip dogs on the front of the table.

Gene

jep24601
11-13-2013, 11:05 AM
^^^^ That is really a universal grinder!!