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vpt
12-16-2013, 09:47 PM
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct

1. Honda (failure rate: 1 in 344)

2. Toyota (failure rate: 1 in 171)

3. Mercedes-Benz (failure rate: 1 in 119)

4. Volvo (failure rate: 1 in 111)

5. Jaguar (failure rate: 1 in 103)

6. Lexus (failure rate: 1 in 101)

7. Fiat (failure rate: 1 in 85)

8. Ford (failure rate: 1 in 80)

9. Nissan (failure rate: 1 in 76)

10. Land Rover (failure rate: 1 in 72)

Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct

1. MG Rover (failure rate: 1 in 13)

2. Audi (failure rate: 1 in 27)

3. Mini (failure rate: 1 in 40)

4. Saab (failure rate: 1 in 40)

5. Vauxhall (failure rate: 1 in 41)

6. Peugeot (failure rate: 1 in 44)

7. BMW (failure rate: 1 in 45)

8. Renault (failure rate: 1 in 46)

9. Volkswagen (failure rate: 1 in 52)

10. Mitsubishi (failure rate: 1 in 59)

sasquatch
12-16-2013, 09:54 PM
Interesting post Andy! Gotta agree, Hondas are up there at the top.
So where did GM and Chrysler come into this?

dfw5914
12-16-2013, 09:56 PM
I would like to know what defines a "failure".
I suspect the ownership demographics comes into play in as far as the threshold for when a vehicle owner will decide the problem warrants a visit to the service department.

dfw5914
12-16-2013, 09:58 PM
I know from personal experience it's a lot more difficult to keep a BMW owner happy than a Honda owner.

Mike Nash
12-16-2013, 09:58 PM
Yeah but, the real question is which cars fail most reliably just after the warranty has expired?
They are the ones that have achieved their goal ;)

Doozer
12-16-2013, 10:11 PM
I like Hondas a lot, but your data means nothing to me.
It is not quantified.

--Doozer

SteveF
12-16-2013, 10:20 PM
Agree with Doozer.

My Ford had to have an O2 sensor replaced. My Audi's engine caught fire and turned the front third of the car into a crispy critter. Not exactly equal failures in my book.

Steve

danlb
12-16-2013, 10:39 PM
The data source is a bit suspect. They sell after-market warranties and have a vested interest in exaggerating the numbers. Without a description of the parameters used in the study it's rather meaningless.

Dan

Doozer
12-16-2013, 11:12 PM
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct

1. International Harvester (failure rate: 1 in 999)

2. Sterling (failure rate: 1 in 171)

3. Stewart (failure rate: 1 in 119)

4. Hudson (failure rate: 1 in 111)

5. Studebaker (failure rate: 1 in 103)

6. Haynes (failure rate: 1 in 101)

7. Pacific (failure rate: 1 in 85)

8. Tarex (failure rate: 1 in 80)

9. Euclid (failure rate: 1 in 76)

10. Pierce Arrow (failure rate: 1 in 72)

Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct

1. Detroit Diesel (failure rate: 1 in 13)

2. Cummins (failure rate: 1 in 27)

3. Deutz (failure rate: 1 in 40)

4. Kubota (failure rate: 1 in 40)

5. Lister (failure rate: 1 in 41)

6. Caterpiller (failure rate: 1 in 44)

7. MAN (failure rate: 1 in 45)

8. Budda (failure rate: 1 in 46)

9. Continental (failure rate: 1 in 52)

10. Yanmar (failure rate: 1 in 59)

Dude I found a different list.
Not sure of yours is right.

--Doozer

dfw5914
12-16-2013, 11:26 PM
Gotta love the internet

Deus Machina
12-17-2013, 12:00 AM
A couple notes...
Notice that they can only collect these stats from dealers or participating repair shops. I can go and get a new O2 sensor for an Accord at the local parts shop. Mercedes probably demands that you get it from a dealer; I'm not entirely sure that a Mercedes will run with a malfunctioning O2 sensor because they're them; if you're driving a Mercedes you're not the type to spend the 14 hours in the driveway it would take to change anything on a Mercedes yourself.

Also, I'd want to compare the failure rates of transmissions. I've spent time in the local Honda dealer's repair department with a buddy of mine, and I wasn't in there a single time where he wasn't sending in a warranty order for a handful of trannies.

darryl
12-17-2013, 12:15 AM
I wonder if there's a chart on the human being failure rate? It should be classified in terms of race, region, type of failure, proven cause and probable cause.

Willy
12-17-2013, 12:17 AM
..........
.........

Dude I found a different list.
Not sure of yours is right.

--Doozer

I just know you got these figures from a reliable source,:rolleyes: but I'm sure your just as aware as I am that on your top ten most reliable engine list, only International Harvester (Navistar) is an active participant in engine manufacturing.
Most of the brands listed aren't even engine manufactures and never were.

While I do not have issues with Honda's quality I do suspect that the Warranty Direct figures would not stand up to close scrutiny.

As the old saying goes...figures don't lie but liars sure figure.

Willy
12-17-2013, 01:00 AM
Interesting post Andy! Gotta agree, Hondas are up there at the top.
So where did GM and Chrysler come into this?

From what I can gather the list that Andy posted is from the UK.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/motoring/picturegalleries/9816454/Engine-reliability-the-top-10-brands.html#?frame=2457914

Not saying that that North American figures aren't available from Warranty Direct but I could not find figures from either their Canadian or US sites.
Seems their British site is a little more forthcoming with figures.

TGriffin
12-17-2013, 07:42 AM
I can believe your list. My 2000 Civic has 250,000 miles on it and is still going strong. May last (and I do mean last) Ford Escape needed a new engine and trans before it hit 100,000 miles, both out of warranty of course.

Tom

vincemulhollon
12-17-2013, 07:54 AM
Dude I found a different list.
Not sure of yours is right.

--Doozer

They're warranty sellers trying to send you a marketing message; its not a professional scientific journal or a court of law or a burning bush.

I'm willing to bet that vpt got his specially created list because he bought a MG Rover and Doozer got his special list because he bought something with a Detroit Diesel. Perhaps not to insult the potential sale, they don't put his vehicle at the very bottom, in which case vpt probably owns a Mitsu and Doozer owns a Yanmar (what is that?). Convince the reader they need that extra warantee. Personally I think they'd probably come out ahead financially by changing the oil a little more often but whatever.

Also its meaningless. My Saturn died for economic reasons after 16 years because the heater core split, which is a pretty decent run. If 100% of saturns die the same way that means the engine never fails the car, ever so its like 1 in a billion for engine failures. On the other hand I'd rather buy a Honda that would 100% 1 in 1 odds blow the engine up at 32 years even though the 1 in 1 looks a heck of a lot worse than 1 in a billion for the Saturn.

SGW
12-17-2013, 08:44 AM
What matters is YOUR vehicle. If your engine fails, as far as you're concerned the failure rate is 100%.

krutch
12-17-2013, 01:49 PM
More importantly how were the owners treated and how quickly the service when a failure occurred? Where is that list?

Bob Fisher
12-17-2013, 04:25 PM
Like some of the others, a "Faiure" must be defined for the data to be meaningful. I have ALWAYS driven American cars and have never had what I would call an engine failure. I have replaced water pumps, alternators and the like, but never had an engine failure. One of my used Pontiac Montana's racked up 250K + miles with the water pumps being the worst problems. I will never own a foreign made car and support their economy. Bob.

CarlByrns
12-17-2013, 05:24 PM
I'm calling shenanigans on the whole list. In ten years of wrenching, the only engines I replaced were very high-mileage or really abused (no oil, very overheated, timing belt not serviced). Even at 1 failure in 344, the dealership service lot would be full of cars waiting for engine work (and I've never seen a Honda that needed a new engine).
The service lot would also be full of angry customers carrying pitchforks and torches.

doctor demo
12-17-2013, 05:37 PM
Engine reliability - top 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
8. Tarex (failure rate: 1 in 80)
9. Euclid (failure rate: 1 in 76)
Engine reliability - bottom 10 brands according to Warranty Direct
1. Detroit Diesel (failure rate: 1 in 13)
2. Cummins (failure rate: 1 in 27)
Dude I found a different list.
Not sure of yours is right.
--Doozer

Interesting list.
Once upon a time T-rex and euclid were detroit powered off road equipment I believe, and now some t-rex equipment is cummins powered.
So I'm wondering in what time frame and context this list was built from.
I didn't see perkins or j-deer there either.

Steve

Tilaran
12-17-2013, 06:12 PM
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7353/10473543723_60cce304e2_o.jpgZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

vpt
12-17-2013, 09:49 PM
The list is a copy and paste from one of the forums I frequent. Looked fairly accurate(ish) but what I was really surprised about is how people exclaim toyotas to be reliable which is shown by being in the number two spot but then the numbers! Even though only being one spot up hondas numbers show they are twice as reliable as the "well known" reliable toyotas. Thats somthin! I don'[t know what but somthin.

Gravy
12-17-2013, 10:52 PM
Like Carl, I find the list suspect if only because the claimed failure rates are way too high. Actual engine failures are almost vanishingly rare these days, especially among vehicles new enough to qualify for an extended warranty. Maybe they're calling a leaking valve cover gasket an "engine failure". I've seen that more on Toyotas than Hondas.

But Honda does make really outstanding engines.

J. Randall
12-18-2013, 02:14 AM
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7353/10473543723_60cce304e2_o.jpgZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzz zzzzzzzzzzzzzz

What is the relevance to this thread, failed engine?

vpt
12-18-2013, 08:03 AM
Like Carl, I find the list suspect if only because the claimed failure rates are way too high. Actual engine failures are almost vanishingly rare these days, especially among vehicles new enough to qualify for an extended warranty. Maybe they're calling a leaking valve cover gasket an "engine failure". I've seen that more on Toyotas than Hondas.

But Honda does make really outstanding engines.




Thats what I think it is, just failures of parts "warranty claims".

M_C
12-18-2013, 12:26 PM
Toyota figures are bad because they're D4D car engines are notorious for head gasket failures. I'd guess about 1 in 3 on our fleet had to have heads or blocks replaced under warranty.

Japanese firms make good petrols, but never had the small deisel knowledge that the european manufacturers had, with the result of various issues when they finally had to add diesel engines to their car ranges. Early honda 2.2s had various niggly issues, as I've mentioned toyota had major head gasket issues, and Mazda had fuelling issues. And while they were sorting that out, the european manufacturers were downsizing cc's, upsizing turbos, and pushing fuel systems even harder and creating their own range of problems.

Doozer
12-19-2013, 08:37 PM
In case you fellows could not tell...
I just randomly made up my list by
pulling brand names out of my brain.
Done in jest to make a point that
anyone can come up with a list that
lacks supporting data. Just having
fun in a creative way. I did not find
my list on the internet.

--Doozer

vpt
12-19-2013, 09:10 PM
In case you fellows could not tell...
I just randomly made up my list by
pulling brand names out of my brain.
Done in jest to make a point that
anyone can come up with a list that
lacks supporting data. Just having
fun in a creative way. I did not find
my list on the internet.

--Doozer



I looked it up, its a confirmed list. You did good.

boslab
12-20-2013, 02:19 AM
The list i wouldn't like to see before flying is aeroplane failures by model! Particularly engine lol, but i bet there is one, it would be nice if they differentiated failure into catastrophic and non catastrophic in the cars, bit of an oil leak on the rocker tin against piston meltdown or seized, both failures, plastic thingy coming off the dipstick and driveshaft shearing.
I don't think the list is meaningful either.
Mark

vpt
12-20-2013, 08:05 AM
The list i wouldn't like to see before flying is aeroplane failures by model! Particularly engine lol, but i bet there is one, it would be nice if they differentiated failure into catastrophic and non catastrophic in the cars, bit of an oil leak on the rocker tin against piston meltdown or seized, both failures, plastic thingy coming off the dipstick and driveshaft shearing.
I don't think the list is meaningful either.
Mark


Personally looking at the list I wouldn't care if it was just leaks, small parts, or total engine losses on the list. No matter what it is to me I see one car having problems and the next not. Total failures or just little problems, I don't like either!