PDA

View Full Version : Searching for part: need help



hwingo
12-31-2013, 05:17 AM
Hi Guys,

On the bottom of a kurt style vise or on the bottom of a dividing head is a slot in which a "key" is secured to keep the vise straight with the T-Slot. I don't know what this is called but the width of the "key" that fits into the slot is .628" wide. I have found "keys" that are called "vise keys" but they look nothing like the current keys that came with my mill's tail-stock nor dividing head.

The length of the key is ~.8xxxx and I don't remember the remaining numbers. Nevertheless the width is what is important. Where can I purchase these keys and what are they called. I've done my best to search in MSC and ENCO but I can't seem to find this key with the width needed.

Any help would be appreciated.

Harold

J Tiers
12-31-2013, 08:35 AM
Do you not have a shop?

I have made a number of keys for vises, angle plates, etc. It's dead simple. Anything from a file to a surface grinder can be used to correctly size it.

And, you can be sure the key is custom made for your individual piece, not just a "generic" key that might be made with a tolerance to fit any unit and any nominal slot.

hwingo
12-31-2013, 08:58 AM
Yes I have a shop! And yes, I know I can make the part it in my shop.

I could also spend several hours of machine time making a mainspring for a revolver, and then another hour or so heat-treating the part, but why would I want to spend man-hours and incur the expense of running my equipment, and maybe break a cutter, when I can buy a factory produced mainspring for six bucks? One hundred buck of machine time for a six buck part. That doesn't make good sense. :confused:

Harold:)

KiddZimaHater
12-31-2013, 09:00 AM
Vise keys from Kurt :
vise keys (http://www.workholding.com/vise_keys.htm)

Arthur.Marks
12-31-2013, 09:03 AM
http://www.carrlane.com/catalog/index.cfm/27025071F0B221118070C1C512D020609090C0015482013180 B041D1E173C3B285352455B
http://www.jwwinco.com/products/section11/gn230/index.html
http://www.itbona-machinetool.com/Pages/main/ProductsSelect_level3.asp?ProductGroup=1&ProductID=8

hwingo
12-31-2013, 09:41 AM
KiddZimaHater: Thank you for the link. The key produced by Kurt is .6875 wide and the one I need is .628 or .629 wide. I think I see the problem I am having. The T-Slots on both mills are apparently metric. My vise, Indexing Heads (3X), and Tail Stocks (2X) are also metric because they are Chicom (I suspect). The key slots in all these accessories are .628-9 and the T-Slots on the mills are .628-9.

Arthur.Marks has found the solution to my problem.:cool: He always seems to know where all the "good stuff" is buried or he immediately began to think "metric", which I certainly failed to do.:o He has offered links to sites that have exactly the size required, that being 16mm. So thank you Arthur.Marks.

Thanks guys for you assistance. This has made my day.

Harold:D

JCHannum
12-31-2013, 10:48 AM
T-slots are not standardized, thus it is common to make T-slot keys to adapt a fixture to a table. The key must fit snugly both in the fixture keyslot and machine T-slot.

The Kurt key is made purposely oversized so it can be machined in place to fit the intended machine's T-slot. If the locating key does not properly fit both the vise and machine slots, it will potentially be out of tram. A simple way to make an accurate tenon to locate the vise is to lathe turn two top-hat shaped tenons to the diameters and lengths of the two keyways. Drill through and counterbore for the appropriate sockethead screw to mount to the vise.

Bob Fisher
12-31-2013, 11:02 AM
You asked for help and got it. Let it go at that. Bob.

hwingo
12-31-2013, 12:29 PM
T-slots are not standardized, thus it is common to make T-slot keys to adapt a fixture to a table. The key must fit snugly both in the fixture keyslot and machine T-slot.

The Kurt key is made purposely oversized so it can be machined in place to fit the intended machine's T-slot. If the locating key does not properly fit both the vise and machine slots, it will potentially be out of tram. A simple way to make an accurate tenon to locate the vise is to lathe turn two top-hat shaped tenons to the diameters and lengths of the two keyways. Drill through and counterbore for the appropriate sockethead screw to mount to the vise.

So the points where each side of the tenon touch the slots is that which keeps alignment?

Harold

Doc Nickel
12-31-2013, 03:09 PM
The key does not necessarily need to be a near-interference fit with the slot. When I use keys that came with an import Kurt clone, they were already slightly undersized for the table slots. I milled one side only, to get perfect registration to the jaws, and simply push the vise against the slot as I'm tightening the bolts.

Keep in mind the keys are not meant to hold the vise in place, at least not on the small Bridgeport-sized machines or mill-drills. They're only used to align the vise while it's being put into place, so as long as you have at least one registration face, you're golden.

Doc.

hwingo
12-31-2013, 05:57 PM
The key does not necessarily need to be a near-interference fit with the slot. When I use keys that came with an import Kurt clone, they were already slightly undersized for the table slots. I milled one side only, to get perfect registration to the jaws, and simply push the vise against the slot as I'm tightening the bolts.

Keep in mind the keys are not meant to hold the vise in place, at least not on the small Bridgeport-sized machines or mill-drills. They're only used to align the vise while it's being put into place, so as long as you have at least one registration face, you're golden.

Doc.

Doc,

Been meaning to ask this. How close are you to Chugiak?

Harold

J Tiers
12-31-2013, 07:29 PM
Yes I have a shop! And yes, I know I can make the part it in my shop.

I could also spend several hours of machine time making a mainspring for a revolver, and then another hour or so heat-treating the part, but why would I want to spend man-hours and incur the expense of running my equipment, and maybe break a cutter, when I can buy a factory produced mainspring for six bucks? One hundred buck of machine time for a six buck part. That doesn't make good sense. :confused:

Harold:)

Do not be confused..... you could NOT buy one, according to your own statements..... THAT IS WHY you make things..... BECAUSE YOU CANNOT BUY THEM. (or you need it now, and not 4 days from now)

Now that you DO know where to get what you need, you also have no need to be confused....

jdunmyer
12-31-2013, 07:47 PM
My own vise is imported, so this may not apply to your Kurt:

The vise slots weren't even closely aligned with the jaws. I used a method similar to JCHannum's to clamp the vise upside-down, then milled the keys to fit the T-slots in the mill table. Sure is nice to drop the vise on the table, bolt it down, and know that it's aligned. Every time I've bothered to check, I've found it to be about .0005" from end to end of the fixed jaw.

LKeithR
12-31-2013, 11:16 PM
The key does not necessarily need to be a near-interference fit with the slot. When I use keys that came with an import Kurt clone, they were already slightly undersized for the table slots. I milled one side only, to get perfect registration to the jaws, and simply push the vise against the slot as I'm tightening the bolts...

This is how I do it. Machine the back side of the key so it's perfectly square to the vise jaw and take a little off the front of the key, approximately .010" - .015". For most of what I do pushing the vise back against the keys aligns it well enough. For those times when I want it dead nuts the little bit of clearance gives me enough room to move the vise around as I tram it in...

hwingo
12-31-2013, 11:48 PM
This is how I do it. Machine the back side of the key so it's perfectly square to the vise jaw and take a little off the front of the key, approximately .010" - .015". For most of what I do pushing the vise back against the keys aligns it well enough. For those times when I want it dead nuts the little bit of clearance gives me enough room to move the vise around as I tram it in...

When you machined the back side of the key perfectly square to the vise jaw, how were you able to secure the key and still be able to machine the back side? Did you use sacrificial metal under the key and clamp from the top to give you unfettered access to the back side?

Harold

David Powell
01-01-2014, 12:26 AM
When you machined the back side of the key perfectly square to the vise jaw, how were you able to secure the key and still be able to machine the back side? Did you use sacrificial metal under the key and clamp from the top to give you unfettered access to the back side?

Harold

I use dowel pins fitted to my vices in such positions that they lie against the front edge of the milling machine table, That way I do not have to lift the vices and align keys, but can simply slide them on the table and push forwards. Provided I make sure that the front face and the dowel pins are clean I get within a thous in 4" with either vice, no matter where I put the vices on the bed. I found the positions for the dowel pins by measurement and got the precision by clamping a 1 " square piece of keystock squarely on the bed( Indicating over about a foot length) and then fastening the vices upside down on the bar and drilling and reaming for the dowel pins at the previously measured distance from the bolt slots in the vices. It worked out just fine. Hope this helps someone else. regards David Powell.

jdunmyer
01-01-2014, 11:19 AM
Harold,
Here's an old thread from this BBS: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/37100-Fitting-mill-vice-keys

It has a link that has more pictures.

hwingo
01-01-2014, 01:44 PM
Harold,
Here's an old thread from this BBS: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/37100-Fitting-mill-vice-keys

It has a link that has more pictures.

Wow! That's a great link and the work was well documented. Thanks for sharing the link.

Harold