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GEP
01-01-2014, 08:21 AM
Does any one have any experience with this brand ?
Thanks
Happy New Year to All

JCHannum
01-01-2014, 08:43 AM
It is not a brand, it is a type of drill. They are also called blacksmith drills. They were invented by Silver & Deming in the 1850's and are a large diameter drill with a reduced, 1/2" shank.

GEP
01-01-2014, 08:49 AM
Was just woundering saw some on e-bay for less then $ 8.00 each from 9/16 - 1" are they worth buying

sasquatch
01-01-2014, 09:15 AM
Probably Chinese i would guess. But maybe not.

Tilaran
01-01-2014, 09:20 AM
They are if'n you only have a 1/2 press and need a bigger hole !

loose nut
01-01-2014, 09:53 AM
Silver and Demings where originally two companies that merged because they were making the same product, reduced shank drills that would fit into collets. This was before drill chucks had been invented and reduced the number of collet sizes required. Smaller drills are 3/8" and the larger ones are 1/2".

TGriffin
01-01-2014, 09:58 AM
If you have a Morse taper in your drill press or mill, you would be better off with taper shank drills. Silver a Demming drills have a nasty habit of spinning in the chuck due to their relatively small shank. Some have three flats on the shank which is better, but I still prefer taper shank drills for the larger sizes.

Tom

GEP
01-01-2014, 10:06 AM
yes i know all my machines have morse taper but i thought i could use the bits in my hand drills

JCHannum
01-01-2014, 10:12 AM
Here is a short history of Silver & Deming, the S&D drill was incidental to their woodworking machinery business and invented long after the company was originally formed.

http://vintagemachinery.org/mfgindex/detail.aspx?id=1017

This is a photo of a "blacksmith" or post drill. They did not have a chuck or collets, just a simple female socket, usually of 1/2" diameter.

http://gallery.photo.net/photo/4120653-lg.jpg

I don't know the fate of the Silver company after the split, but Deming went on to manufacture pumps and is now Crane Deming and is still based in Salem Ohio, the original home of Silver & Deming.

brian Rupnow
01-01-2014, 10:13 AM
I use them all the time and they work great. I have a 3/4" chuck on my drill press, and the straight shank on Silver and Deming drills works fine in it. They are not terribly expensive brand new.---Brian

Bill Pace
01-01-2014, 10:22 AM
I would not want to be without my set of Silver/Deming bits in 64ths. I step drill up to the size Im after. They arent know for an especially accurate hole (not uncommon for a drill bit). I recently bought an inexpensive set of unknown brand bits off ebay and have been very pleasantly surprised at the quality of them. Ive been finding the quality of the stuff coming out of China has been improving quite a bit in the last couple years --- YMMV

GEP
01-01-2014, 10:36 AM
Here are the ones i bean looking at. Is it waist ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Twist-Drill-Bit-Choose-9-16-1-M2-HSS-Machinsts-Silver-Deming-FREE-SHIP-/111011473130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19d8cca6ea

dalee100
01-01-2014, 10:58 AM
Hi,

I find the ad a bit confusing. Is the price for the set or pick a size and get one drill? In a general way, unless buying 'dollar store' drills, I have found Chinese made drills to be OK. Not great, but serviceable, particularly for a home shop use. You should check the grind before first use to be sure it was sharpened properly as sometimes they aren't. Occasionally you will get a stinker, either too brittle or soft. But that doesn't happen very often anymore.

dalee

radkins
01-01-2014, 11:09 AM
I use them all the time and they work great. I have a 3/4" chuck on my drill press, and the straight shank on Silver and Deming drills works fine in it. They are not terribly expensive brand new.---Brian


"They are not expensive band new"???????


That statement doesn't make sense, since Silver&Deming is a TYPE of drill and not a brand they can range from dirt cheap (and usually junk!) to very high quality and quite expensive compared to other drills. I see Harbor Freight S&D drills all the time for about $39 but my Precision brand cost over $350 with shipping.

brian Rupnow
01-01-2014, 11:14 AM
"They are not expensive band new"???????


That statement doesn't make sense, since Silver&Deming is a TYPE of drill and not a brand they can range from dirt cheap (and usually junk!) to very high quality and quite expensive compared to other drills. I see Harbor Freight S&D drills all the time for about $39 but my Precision brand cost over $350 with shipping.

My new years resolution for 2014 was to spell everything wrong!!!!

radkins
01-01-2014, 11:20 AM
Here are the ones i bean looking at. Is it waist ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Twist-Drill-Bit-Choose-9-16-1-M2-HSS-Machinsts-Silver-Deming-FREE-SHIP-/111011473130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19d8cca6ea

They can usually be described in one word, soft! I tried several Chinese S&D drills including two different sets and I find that they will dull easily and even gall in anything harder than mild steel. I finially broke down and spent the money on a good set and to say the difference is like night and day is a gross understatement! I am definitely not a "tool snob" and most of my tools are Chinese, including my HF 14x40 lathe, but after buying the good quality drills I find the Chinese S&D drills to be next to useless, I know some will argue the point and I realize that the Chinese drills can be made to work, sort of anyway, but the difference in how much better the Precision or Triumph drills are compared to the Chinese drills in the way they perform and how well they hold up is just too much to ignore. Even from a hobbyist point of view with a tight tool budget I will never waste another penny on those cheap drill bits!

RussZHC
01-01-2014, 11:27 AM
One does need to be seated when the prices show...KAR lists 1/2" shank, 1/2" to 1" by 64ths set from Michigan Drill at $1344 and that is HSS, not the cobalt version. They list a 3/4" shank between 1" and 2" by 1/4", so 5 pieces, at $1402.

Bill Pace
01-01-2014, 11:37 AM
If I needed a particular size in that grouping I'd gamble at that price with free ship....

J Tiers
01-01-2014, 02:03 PM
If you have (as I do) a post drill and/or a Cole Drill, you need them for larger sizes.

I'll warn you that both drill types require a sharp as heck drill, but you surely already know that.

Boucher
01-01-2014, 02:26 PM
Sometime back Wholesale Tool had a sale on some in odd 64 sizes. Surprisingly they turned out to be very good quality. I only use them to get a hole large enough to start boring. They do tend to slip in most chucks but not in an Albreck sp? The MT drills are definately a better way to go.

sasquatch
01-01-2014, 02:29 PM
Years ago i bought a set of those chinese drills, from 9/16 up to one inch / with the 1/2 inch shank.
Almost all were ground wrong, i went through the set and reground them, (one even had a slight hook ground into it), now they are not too bad, served the purpose.

sch
01-01-2014, 04:00 PM
I have several sets of S&D drills from 1/2 to 1" by 16ths, all chinese and all with more than adequate metallurgy. They cut well. Sources lost in mystery, but likely Enco. You might look at
Victornet as a better source, their prices are lower than the Ebay and they have individual, sets and US made as well as Chinese. I respect their judgement of metallurgy much better than an
anonymous ebay seller with chinglish writeups. Victornet page: http://www.victornet.com/subdepartments/HS-Reduced-Shank-Drills/1200.html
I regard these drills as metal removal tools without any precision, just to allow the boring tool access for the final cut to size.

By comparison I once wasted $40 on a HF 115drill set, even though I had two good sets of US made same. They are excellent for balsa wood, pretty good for white pine but marginal in oak. Metal?
CR or HR steel is harder than the drills.

radkins
01-01-2014, 04:35 PM
By comparison I once wasted $40 on a HF 115drill set, even though I had two good sets of US made same. They are excellent for balsa wood, pretty good for white pine but marginal in oak. Metal?
CR or HR steel is harder than the drills.


I disagree, I had a set also and most were not straight enough to be excellent even for balsa! :rolleyes:

No joke, not only were most quite a bit off for the size they were marked but they also wobbled terribly due to the fact they were not even straight!

flutedchamber
01-01-2014, 04:45 PM
They are without a doubt the best way to wreck a good drill chuck.

loose nut
01-01-2014, 07:49 PM
That's just good Chinese recycling. All the off-spec drills get bundled together and sold as a "bargain".

Doozer
01-01-2014, 08:13 PM
Some time ago, I bought a set of 8 (or so) large
size Demming bits from Enco. They were made in
China. All ground well. Thing is they were so hard
that they chipped the edge rather easily. I just
would be careful with them as not to grab the
work, and they are just dandy. I guess there is
the too soft and the too hard end of the spectrum.

--Doozer

radkins
01-01-2014, 09:30 PM
It doesn't surprise me that some are too hard but the ones I have encountered (the S&D anyway) so far have all been too soft, some of them have actually galled in steels harder than mild steel. Like I said earlier I am not opposed to Chinese tools and I usually try them first but I have learned some things such as end mills and drills are no bargain, after buying a Precision Twist Drill brand in 3/4" for a particular job I was doing I was so surprised (more like shocked!) at the difference in quality and performance I spent the money for the set. There simply is no comparison and while I'm sure the Chinese drills can get the job done most of the time it's just worth the difference to me and I will never again waste money on those Chinese drills.

wmgeorge
01-02-2014, 09:28 AM
Here are the ones i bean looking at. Is it waist ?
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Large-Twist-Drill-Bit-Choose-9-16-1-M2-HSS-Machinsts-Silver-Deming-FREE-SHIP-/111011473130?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&var=&hash=item19d8cca6ea

Do you mean I've been looking at, is it a waste? Unsure of what bean and waist have to do with drills?

dalee100
01-02-2014, 10:52 AM
Hi

You got to like text prediction when typing on phones or tablets. It can make for some interesting reading. (Sent from my phone)

Dalee

PeteM
01-18-2014, 01:31 AM
Silver Deming drills are commonly used in equipment that really isn't built to drive holes much larger than 1/2" into steel. So, they are often best used in step drilling scenarios. And step drilling comes with its own problems -- chatter, chipped outer edges, poor size control etc.

Best pilot hole size to start with is a bit less than web width of the drill. Ideal if you have enough drill (and chuck) to get to size from there.

As others, my experience with the Chinese ones has been poorly controlled heat threat -- usually too brittle. This gets even worse when just the edges are engaged in an attempt to enlarge a hole, especially if hand held.

Paul Alciatore
01-18-2014, 03:32 AM
I have a Chinese set from 9/16" to 1" by 16s. Also probably from Enco. They have worked OK for me.

I also step drill with them, but I do not go by 16s. I find that something like a 1" hole is better done in three or four steps: Center or spotting drill, about 1/4", then perhaps 1/2", 3/4" and finally 1". Or spotting, 1/4", 11/16", and 1".

By using larger steps, the job goes faster and they are less likely to grab.

GEP
01-18-2014, 06:29 AM
I bought one just one from this seller. the drill bit seams to be fine its better then the master mechanic one i bought some time ago in a local hardware store
http://www.ebay.com/itm/111011473130?var=410159938546&ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649

Boot
01-18-2014, 09:42 AM
I agree with Brian . I have a complete set with the flats on the 1/2" shanks. They work great and I have never had any trouble with them.
Boot

PeteM
01-18-2014, 01:57 PM
Another trick is to have a couple of each size and put a neutral rake on the lips of one. This reduces "grab" and is especially useful for materials like brass.

metalmagpie
01-18-2014, 11:20 PM
I have a cheap set from 1/2-1" by 64ths. Beware .. they aren't ground very accurately. The first hole I drilled was 7/8" and it came out about .900" - way oversize. I sharpened the drill correctly on a Darex and it cut .875" like it should have. You get what you pay for. Lots of times you don't really care if a hole is oversize anyway, then they're great.

metalmagpie