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atty
01-11-2014, 09:06 PM
http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss352/atty5420/100_0597R.jpg

I'm about to tackle a project that is long overdue, but not one I'm looking forward to. This way is about 12' long, but lucky me, I only have to worry about 10' of it. Over about 30 years of use, it has managed to accumulate a considerable amount of rust pits and wear resulting in an up and down pattern as the head travels over it. The difference from the fairly unused end to the highly used end is in the range of 0 to around .012". When our 2,000 lb. grinding head travels over it, the difference becomes apparent very quickly. I tried a quick fix with stainless steel shims under the wear band, which helped initially, but I'm sure most of you, as a kid, couldn't resist the temptation of placing a penny on a railroad track. Over time the shims began to look like that penny. Thus, the time has come for a more substantial fix.

I have read about Moglice for years, but have never seen it, nor tried it. That is about to end. Now that I have the product in my hands, I'm reading on the brochure about its machinability like steel. I've spent a fair amount of time behind a file and sanding block doing auto body work, but somehow, I have this nagging feeling that this stuff is going to be a little tougher to cut down and get to the desired level. Has anybody dived into this end of the pool yet and come up with any suggestions?

macona
01-11-2014, 09:29 PM
Moglice would be fine for the wear on the head side but may be difficult to use on the bed half. I thin I would have the ways reground. I think that is going to be the best solution. Or have it milled down and install modern linear bearing rails and blocks.

atty
01-11-2014, 09:38 PM
I did leave out an important element. These ways are covered with a .033 Stainless Steel wear band. When it wears out, toss it and start over with a new one. The problem is the underlying support of the way that you are seeing. The wear band covers a lot of sins, but it still dips, particularly when you're talking about that kind of weight rolling over it.

macona
01-12-2014, 12:03 AM
I think you are just going to have to have it reground.

Richard King
01-12-2014, 12:49 AM
I have repaired Plywood Mill (mfg.) brade grinders that was inside a room on the 3rd floor as the blade grinder was placed in the building before the walls were put up. So sending it out to be machined was not an option. The cast iron base under the SS wear band was pitted as your's is. On this machine ball bearings rolled on-top of the bands, I filled in the rusted holes and pits with a product Moglice makes for filling in scores Score-ex. Moglice makes several types of products one is for the shorter way bearing surfaces as macona mentioned. I made a depth gage that mounted on the to outside uprights and mounted a dial indicator so I could make the pitted surface parallel to the top sides as it was machined at the factory at the same time as when they milled the pitted surface.

After the Score Ex dried I filed and sanded using a steel block with sand paper until it was with in .001" parallel and flat. It was a messy job, but worked with help of a shop vac. I also ran out of the Score-Ex I went to a local auto store and bought a product called Liquid Lead. Both products smelled like Fiber-glass and dried as fast as Bondo... Less then 10 min. After we finished we also sprayed the new surface with a clear coat varnish to keep the coolant from eroding the metal again.

The Plywood plant Maintenance man helped me. I saw him at a tool show about 10 years later and he said it worked that way for about 5 years and he did it again by himself. If you can get it machined, that would be the way to go and buy thicker banding. If you can't then give this a try.

I would also check with Bruce at Moglice and see what he says. I used to be a Sales Rep for Moglice when it was called Devitt Machinery. Tell him I said hello. If it is the type used on the short ways like the bottom of a lathe saddle or Mill saddle return it and buy the Score-Ex. If you need any help you can call me as I am a Professional Machine Tool Rebuilder and I can explain it on the phone better then typing it here. 651 338 8141 anytime at a reasonable (CST) hour. Rich

atty
01-12-2014, 02:17 AM
Thanks Richard.

It's good to see somebody else has been through the wars of pitted ways and wear bands. Actually the product I received is from Devitt Mach., and it's called Diamant Plastic Metal from Germany. By now I'm sure Moglice has been tossed around as a generic term for metal filler. It's still a plastic bonded metal filler.

In any event, I'm happy to see that you used a sanding block. I was getting seriously concerned about how I was going to "sculpt" this surface with normal abrasives. As for a reference point......that drove me crazy. I finally settled on the side of the chuck along with a slapped together rig with a dial indicator. I reasoned that if I was consistent with the way vs the chuck, then things can't be all bad. Then, I discovered that the outside of the way is .035" higher than the inside of the way, presumably to give the head a "pigeon toed" track, thus keeping it pointed inside. That means my dial indicator has to follow the same lateral track all the way down to sculpt the Moglice consistently.

This is going to be a real challenge, and I thank you for your offer. I suspect your phone will be ringing soon.

By the by......I talked with Cody at Devitt. Very helpful and seemed very knowledgeable.

http://i591.photobucket.com/albums/ss352/atty5420/IMG_0088.jpg

Richard King
01-12-2014, 09:27 AM
Here is a link to the material I am talking about:
http://moglice.com/repair-materials.html
they also have :
http://moglice.com/low-friction-wayliners.html
and
http://moglice.com/static-fitting-materials.html

All made by Diamant. As I stated I used be a rep and the Score material can be sanded but the low friction way material can hardly be scraped with carbide.

I have dulled carbide on it personally. If it is put on wrong you have to chip it out with a hammer and chisel. I have never met Cody, but have met Bruce the Vice President and Drew Devitt the President. We are all personal friends. I traveled in Taiwan with the German CEO of Diamant Products (did you notice their logo is a diamond?) who makes the Moglice materials, selling and demonstrating their products to machine builders and ship builders.

I would still use the outside edges of the area where the ways are and not the chuck side. As you will be multipyling the error from one to the other as you reach out further on the back way then to then the front one, possibly doubling the error if the chuck top is out of square to the ways. You could check the top edges on both ways front and back and f they read the same your metheod will work too. i have found in many machines; lathes, mills, grinders the top clearance surfaces work to measure from and were parallel to the ways from the factory. To check the error I would measure the ends where there is no wear and running it on the top edge of each way independently from the other side. On the Blade grinder I did the rollers or wheels (sealed ball bearings) were on a eccentric cam shaft so you could adjust the height so they hit the bands at the same height and we adjusted the head stock spindle to so it was on an angle so the blades were 10 degs. (rake or lip clearance) out of square so they would shave the bark off logs. Like I said Diamant products in the brand name and not the material type. Be sure you have the right material for the job. Better safe so you can sand it and not the material you can't sand or cut with carbide. Moglice is not a miracle material. It works well in some areas and not so good in others. Remember they are "repair" materials and will probably need to be "repaired" again. One very important thing you have to do is clean the iron as it is now full of oil and water.

I would use a propane torch to heat the casting to sweat out the pours.You can heat it up and watch the oil and water wick out. Be careful not to get it to hot as you will melt the iron or it may pop out. I would never use a acetelyne torch as it will get it to hot. Heat it up, wipe with a white rag, let it cool, wash with cleaner, heat it up and repeat until the white rag does not get dirty when you wipe the metal. The Score material will fail or fall out if the surface is not prepared and cleaned. I also used a cut off wheel and carbide burr to make the bottom of the pits deeper and wider as if you don't do that the material will work out. It won't just lay in a pit and not come out. Think of it as a "pot hole" in the road.

I am not sure what you are grinding with the machine? Your material might have to be 90 deg square. You should check your ball bearings (buy some new bearings too) and look at how they adjust. have you tested the side of the chuck with a blade square so you know it is square or are you assuming it is square. I say in the rebuilding business you can not assume anything, you have to prove it. Good luck. Rich

atty
01-12-2014, 12:08 PM
Thanks again, Rich.

The material Cody recommended is PlasticMetal #0067. I don't think it's wayliner, but after reading your last, I think a little test is in order. Would hate to start finding out after it's already on, and yes, Cody did instruct me to peck some .100" holes, 1/16" or so dia. around the pit areas. Not real sure how many, and how dense, I need, but I guess I'll just have to wing that one.

We grind the usual varying collections of PVC granulator blades.....Cumberland, Zerma, Econogrind, etc. They vary from as small as 12" long to bed knives at 42". As expected, the rotors are ground on angles, while the beds are very little angle or even flat.

The last time we cut/dressed out the chuck, I first dialed the spindle "flat" with the chuck, then cut. After that, I flipped it 90, as you see in the pic, and cut that side. My partner was questioning me at the time why I was cutting the side of the chuck since we don't grind there, and I said that I wanted a square reference to the front. I didn't know why at the time, but I kind of knew it would come in handy sometime in the future. Now....the big question is whether the chuck is flat from end to end, or is there a slope, due to bearing wear, etc.? That I don't know, and I don't really know how to find out because it is our reference point. I guess, at some point, there has to be some blind faith. Sometime last year, I mounted the dial indicator to the head and tracked it down the chuck. I made a map of the dips and valleys as it went down. Now, as I move my indicator base down the chuck, as in the pic, I'm seeing the same thing, only a little more accurately, so I'm feeling a little better about it. I fully understand the need to track the same line down that way in order to get the same measurement for the Moglice sanding, as well as maintaining that slope. I'm going to have to modify the base to accommodate that task.

Again, I appreciate your observations. This is going to be a true test of machining and auto body skills at the same time.