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loose nut
03-29-2014, 07:07 PM
I need to glue a .010" thick piece of brass strip to a thicker piece. Unfortunately, because of heat sensitive materials located near the brass, soldering is out of the question. I used epoxy for the last attempt and it will stick but it doesn't take much to "lift" it off if you catch the end of the strip. Both pieces of brass were roughed up to give the glue something to grab onto but that has limited effect.There isn't ant load on the work it only needs to stay attached.

Do any of you know of a better type of glue.

P. S. - J B Weld is just a type of epoxy and no better for this application.

kitno455
03-29-2014, 07:13 PM
Other folks might laugh, but I use good old Loctite thread locker red (271) for this kind of stuff occasionally. You need to put some weight on it, and keep it from sliding for 24 hours, but it works well enough for light loads. They might even have a more suitable product, like one of the 600 series?

allan

JCHannum
03-29-2014, 07:24 PM
Loctite Black Max adhesive will stick almost anything to anything, brass to brass should be no problem. Clean and degrease well before applying.

Another that I have seen recommended, but have no expereince with is 3M 5200. It is a silicone caulk, usually available from marine suppliers. It does take a couple of days to fully cure.

kitno455
03-29-2014, 07:32 PM
Some good info here:

http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/213261_LT3371_Metal_Bonding_Guide_022011_LR451580. pdf

allan

darryl
03-29-2014, 07:42 PM
Good ol' shoo goo, or Goop. A flexible epoxy might be a good choice here too. 3M5200 is good stuff- give it enough time to cure and it will hold virtually anything. Because it's moisture curing, it relies on moisture being able to penetrate into it. If you are gluing non-permeable surfaces, a cure time of a week will be more like it.

Toolguy
03-29-2014, 08:14 PM
Rubber cement works for things like this if allowed to cure well.

Deus Machina
03-29-2014, 10:09 PM
I'm a fan of Shoe Goo or Goop, traditionally. Haven't used Black max but have heard good stuff, too.
Lately, I'm a fan of a glue called E6000, for all-purpose uses. Tie it down and wait long enough, and you could glue snot to a snail.

chipmaker4130
03-29-2014, 11:48 PM
I've used LocTite Stud & Bearing Mount for gluing brass 'runner' strips on a telescoping tube arrangement. They're still in place 6yrs later. I did mill a shallow groove for them to fit in though. One nice thing about that stuff is that it sets up pretty fast.

Lu47Dan
03-30-2014, 01:10 AM
Lord Corp, Fuzor.
Dan.

darryl
03-30-2014, 02:22 AM
E-6000 appears to be the same thing as shoo goo or goop.

j.bain87
03-30-2014, 07:43 AM
Hmm, sounds like you need some double sided sticky tape, there are some out there that are relatively thin and boy oh boy, they stick like the proverbial turd to a blanket.

With a piece of 0.25 mm brass, you will surely bend the bit of brass before you'll ever get it to let go.

Jon Heron
03-30-2014, 08:40 AM
What about crazy glue? That stuff seems to work great in all sorts of applications, I believe it forms a molecular bond of some sort...
Cheers,
Jon

ironmonger
03-30-2014, 08:58 AM
Here is the stuff I thought about:

http://www.vishaypg.com/docs/11011/bondae10.pdf

If it will hold strain gauges, it should bond your brass.

paul

Forestgnome
03-30-2014, 09:26 AM
I second Black Max, Loctite 380. I use it to secure stainless steel wires in a brass collet for a tool at work. The wires pull the collet into a collet closer to grip a shaft. Never had the wires come out. If you need to reglue just soak in acetone.

loose nut
03-30-2014, 09:33 AM
What about crazy glue? That stuff seems to work great in all sorts of applications, I believe it forms a molecular bond of some sort...
Cheers,
Jon


Tried it, it will glue the brass together but has weak peel strength, the ends will come up.

loose nut
03-30-2014, 09:35 AM
Sounds like it comes down to Black Max or Shoe Goo. I can get the Goo but I haven't seen Black Max around here. Small town, limited selection of anything.

Willy
03-30-2014, 09:57 AM
Loctite Epoxy Weld (http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/epxy_weld_t/overview/Loctite-Epoxy-Weld-Bonding-Compound.htm), designed especially for bonding metals. I believe Permatex makes a similar product as well. Both of these products will require destructive procedures in order to separate the pieces bonded with them...good stuff!

You should be able to source these products at any automotive parts outlet.
The little cow town near me only has about 1,200 people and I have two sources.

JMS6449
03-30-2014, 10:32 AM
Use double sided scotch tape.

Deus Machina
03-30-2014, 11:30 AM
E-6000 appears to be the same thing as shoo goo or goop.

Essentially, the formula just seems less a little less flexible in my experience. Less latex or whatever they use, possibly.

BigBoy1
03-30-2014, 12:41 PM
You mentioned that soldering was too low of a temperature. What about brazing the brass parts together? That is a much higher temperature than soldering. The down side is that temperature is above the annealing temperature of brass. You end up with a very strong joint but in soft brass.

loose nut
03-30-2014, 01:29 PM
Can't use solder because of the heat, materiel near by would suffer greatly.

loose nut
03-30-2014, 07:37 PM
Found some JB Weld in the shop, decided to give it a try, against my better judgement. Will know tomorrow morning if it is OK.

Doozer
03-30-2014, 10:33 PM
OEM that makes brass valves uses green loctite on the brass parts
that they do not want to come apart ever. The green loctite bearing
mount stuff almost welds brass parts together. It is that good.
--Doozer

boslab
03-31-2014, 04:22 AM
3M vhb double sided tape, sticks just about anything to anything, on steel you can even bend it after assembly
Mark

jep24601
03-31-2014, 08:43 AM
Methyl Methacrylate sounds like the stuff to use. It has a very slight flexibility which should aid in avoiding the peel debonding which you are experiencing.
The Methyl Methacrylate I have on hand is "WorkZone 2-Component Adhesive Methyl-Methacrylate" "Highly suitable for plastics and smooth surfaces".
It is in a 0.95oz two part syringe dispenser "produced in USA for Aldi stores Ltd." - looks like I picked mine up on vacation in England last year.

loose nut
03-31-2014, 09:28 AM
Just checked the parts that I glued with "JB Weld" last night, looks good, the joint is a bit thicker then I wanted but it seem to be attached well enough. It seem to work better, for this, then straight epoxy, which didn't work very well at all.


Thanks.

vincemulhollon
03-31-2014, 03:34 PM
By suffer greatly from heat, what do you mean?

If you've got the dough you can buy cerrolow-117 that melts at 117F (not C), in the sun on a summer day or in the trunk of your car. Its a perfectly good solder.

Good luck finding a soldering flux that's active at 117F

I mostly fooled around with low temp solders for electronic stuff a long time ago. The idea being you can't melt the regular stuff accidentally if you set your soldering iron to 300F and use cerrotru-281 for rework.

Some of the low temp solders are vaguely toxic / poisonous etc.

Forestgnome
03-31-2014, 04:41 PM
Methyl Methacrylate sounds like the stuff to use. It has a very slight flexibility which should aid in avoiding the peel debonding which you are experiencing.
The Methyl Methacrylate I have on hand is "WorkZone 2-Component Adhesive Methyl-Methacrylate" "Highly suitable for plastics and smooth surfaces".
It is in a 0.95oz two part syringe dispenser "produced in USA for Aldi stores Ltd." - looks like I picked mine up on vacation in England last year.
That's why Black Max is effective. it's cyanoacrylate adhesive with rubber mixed in. That's what makes it black.

loose nut
03-31-2014, 07:47 PM
By suffer greatly from heat, what do you mean?

.

Melt, burn, smoke etc.

The JB Weld worked fine, tomorrow I will clean it up IE: file of extra bits.

jep24601
03-31-2014, 08:42 PM
That's why Black Max is effective. it's cyanoacrylate adhesive with rubber mixed in. That's what makes it black.

Sounds interesting. Must find some and add it to my collection of adhesives.
(Rubber doesn't make it black - pigments do that - rubber itself is light colored)

darryl
03-31-2014, 09:24 PM
Job is done, but I just wanted to mention that there is a flexible epoxy made- I saw some not long ago, called WetBond I think-

lynnl
03-31-2014, 11:49 PM
3M vhb double sided tape, sticks just about anything to anything, on steel you can even bend it after assembly
Mark

Yeah that's the stuff they use to stick exterior panels (glass/stainless steel/etc.) to high rise buildings.
I saw a TV program about the construction of a high rise hotel in Dubai (a million feet high, costing half the money in the world!), explaining how strong and wonderful that VHB stuff is. ...of course it's expensive!

boslab
04-01-2014, 05:18 AM
The guy selling the stuff came to the lab with samples, we stuck two peices if 1/4 plate together put it on two bricks and hit it with a sledgehammer, repeatedly. It held its own better than some welds ive seen, in fact we teased the welders that they can now be replaced with sticky tape, they were quite put out.
Mark