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PolskiFran
05-04-2004, 12:57 PM
Once again my shop is being undermined by groundhogs (badgers)digging at the back of my shop. For the past 4 yrs. i've been trapping and shooting to get rid of them. Yes, i always shoot away from the shop. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif I've even put broken glass where they are digging, but that doesn' work to keep them out. Does any one know of any good repellents for these critters.

Thanks,
Frank

bernie
05-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Fence wire on the ground or just below. Good heavy stuff.

coles-webb
05-04-2004, 01:03 PM
Landmines!!!

lynnl
05-04-2004, 01:06 PM
I see you're in Hamburg, Pa. That wouldn't be anywhere close to Punxsatawney would it?

(Hmmm, ...not sure I want to be a part of this. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif)

BillH
05-04-2004, 01:19 PM
well, too bad your shop is over it, what My grandpa and I did one year was pour gasoline down the holes and light the match. Once the fire got going, we covered up all the holes with dirt, smoke inhalation did him in. Was cool though, the fumes seamed to ignite all at once and BANG, ground shook.

Mike W
05-04-2004, 01:53 PM
Some gopher gas bombs should work. I knew a guy that made mines using .38 shells filled with black powder. They were fired by some kind of pad the gopher walked over to make contact with a battery.

Happy
05-04-2004, 02:18 PM
Live trap them. Use a havahart box type trap,and use apples for bait. the thing about a trap, is it is always working for you. if you have the trap and bait there all the time, sooner or later you will get them all. also, consider a rat type poison if it would be safe.

dsergison
05-04-2004, 02:37 PM
do you really mean BADGERS?

badgers arent ground hogs.. they are like giant claw-fanged evil S.O.B's with a stripe down their back.

I personally like the .38 mine idea. but for badgers better use 12ga shells. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

pgmrdan
05-04-2004, 02:38 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

BillH
05-04-2004, 03:03 PM
Well atleast you didnt mistake a Skunk for the neighbors cat. Here kitty kitty, then I see the cat turn around, and start dancing with his hind legs, and I realised immediately it was not a cat.
Luckilly I ran back into the house before he sprayed.

Rustybolt
05-04-2004, 03:09 PM
Happy. Unfortunately all you'll acccomplish is to give someone else the problem. The only sure fire way is to kill them. Once they set up shop and have little ones they'll keep appearing year after year. Eradicate the ones that are there now and fill in the holes as best you can. Then bury wire fencing(like bernie says) and cover with coarse stones

pgmrdan
05-04-2004, 03:20 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

bernie
05-04-2004, 03:36 PM
I don't know the laws where you are, but where I'm at I was told by the DNR that they would not help me relocate (Pests):Badgers, Skunks, Beavers, Porcupines or just about any other creature that come onto my land. So now I shoot them. I do not like doing it, but it's my only option. As said before if you re-locate them, you'll just give the problem to someone else. Every year I get Beavers, Skunks, Badgers, and Porcupines. They do a great deal of damage to the trees and carry Rabies. Not to mention thousands of gophers.

P.S. Badgers seldom ATTACK people. They will run away if given the chance. A Wolverine WILL attack.

Evan
05-04-2004, 03:38 PM
I'd just love to see my Karelian Bear Dog fight something like a badger. She has reflexes faster than a cat. She catches birds out of the air when they fly past her and she looks like she is sleeping. I don't think the badger would have a chance.

YoheShop
05-04-2004, 04:32 PM
For groundhogs, we used to put a hose on the tractor exhaust and stuff it in the hole for a few minutes and then stop it up with dirt. Nothing ever came out. Quiet and effective. Didn't disturb the neighbors.

Herb

L Webb
05-04-2004, 04:40 PM
If they are badgers, get yourself a Dachshund. Those dogs were bred to hunt badgers.
Let them go down the hole and when they grab the badger with their teeth, you grab the dog by the tail and pull him and the badger out.
We have two of the dogs in the mini version and they do love to hunt.

Les

pgmrdan
05-04-2004, 04:59 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

Spin Doctor
05-04-2004, 05:28 PM
Just don't hire Bill Muarry to get rid of them for you. For your skae I do hope they are ground hogs and not Badgers, mean SOBs. Just ask any cheesehead;D

jfsmith
05-04-2004, 07:04 PM
I will trade you the lion roaming around Port Columbus for your ground hogs. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


You may try one of those 50 cal BMG hog guns, if you don't kill them, they will be deaf. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif


Jerry

Evan
05-04-2004, 07:23 PM
Les,

FYI, "Dachshund" is German for "Badger Dog".

L Webb
05-04-2004, 10:10 PM
Yes Evan, that is what they were bred for.
And they do love to hunt.

Les

wierdscience
05-04-2004, 10:12 PM
Get yourself a gallon bucket of Cheyann spelling?pepper from a resturant supply,dust the holes liberaly,armadillos,groundhogs,snakes,turtles,alli gators,squirrels,chipmunks and neutreas don't like it one bit,maybe baddgers won't either.

Oh,be sure and wear a face sheild thou,one gust of wind and is cryin time for an hour http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif Wash hands good before taking a leak too http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif

BillH
05-04-2004, 10:48 PM
Dont be so sure about pepper, I've heard some rumors that Pepper Bear spray actually attracts them! It is food after all. Yummm

Cass
05-04-2004, 11:47 PM
Had a ground hog attack my pickup wiring when I lived in Tennessee. Pepper just made the pickup smell like a pizza parlor and the ground hogs either liked it or didn't care about it. No repellent effect at all. Big dog and .22 cal. got rid of them. Easy enough to kill with a .22 but after a few months of repairing all kinds of wires and hoses on two different vehicles I would have preferred to slowly kill the damn thing with finger nail clippers or tooth picks, he died to fast and easy.

wierdscience
05-04-2004, 11:49 PM
Nah,that stuff never works,just ask a cop.There's not nearly enough being despensed,the stuff we use has even been stirred into hull paint and does the job on barnacles,1 cup pepper,1 gallon paint

SJorgensen
05-05-2004, 01:54 AM
Those groundhogs aren't really a problem. They aren't likely to undermine your slab to a point where it fails. I like groundhogs. I used to shoot them with pellet guns. I used to shoot them with 22's. I used to shoot them with a bow and arrows. I used to attack them with trained hawks.

Now I feel that the most moral hunting was with my hawks. But now I like winning the trust of all the squirells and groundhogs. I love giving them nuts and having them climb up my leg to get them. I have a cabin where the wild birds will also land on my hand. It gives me hope for mankind.

Spence

Now if it is BADGERS you are dealing with! you have a special case. I've only had one run-in with a Badger, and that damn devil chased me about a 1/2 mile. You think you've run enough to evade the badger and then look back and they keep coming. They are really really mean. So I disagree with the statement that they don't attack if unprovoked. They are hunter killers that are NOT AFRAID of ANYTHING! I was put through hell by the little bastard.
If I ever met a man that could tame a Badger, well then I would know a real man. I have a great respect for the people who can work with the nature of people, and of the animals just as we are.

Spence

[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 05-05-2004).]

J. Randall
05-05-2004, 02:34 AM
Spence, I have a cousin who tamed one. My dad dug it out of a bank behind our house when I was a kid. He was at least half grown and really mean. I had a teenage cousin who lived in town that wanted it. Dad said go ahead but you will never tame it. About 3 weeks later he came driving out to our house, the badger riding in the seat beside him, just as gentle as any domestic pet. Unforunately he kept whipping all the neighborhood dogs in town and an angry neighbor killed him. James

abn
05-05-2004, 04:09 AM
WTF Spence...did I read that right, you let the groundhogs and squirrels run up your leg to eat your nuts? I think the trained hawk thing was a better idea!

ibewgypsie
05-05-2004, 05:47 AM
Heavy metal music played right at the maximum of a sound system. No small critter likes it. The Rat has not been back to my milling machine where he was wanting to make a home.

I gave my puppy a cookie, he took it and buried it next to my shop.. I was thinking, "to appease the great furry creature that made "Alpha-male-DaddY'" jump around".(he watched it jump outa the mill head, we were drinking beer together). HA HA..
David

dsergison
05-05-2004, 09:28 AM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by SJorgensen:
I used to shoot them with pellet guns. I used to shoot them with 22's. I used to shoot them with a bow and arrows. I used to attack them with trained hawks.</font>

LOL! dang that was funny. Crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and hear the lamentations of
the women!.

PolskiFran
05-05-2004, 10:14 AM
Thanks for all the help folks. I set 3 traps yesterday, and nothing in them this morning.

The PA Lottery has a new mascot Gus the Groundhog, I feel like sending them a few sun-baked kills and tell them "Keep on Scratchin'" (new lottery slogan). Not near Punxsatawny, I'm at the other end of the state.

These are giant clawed - fanged SOBs, less the stripe. One went past the patio door yesterday, it had to be better than 2' long.

I have a jeep out back of the shop on blocks. Last year they threw so much dirt from digging under the jeep the blocks were loose under the axels.

A lot of them come from the neighbors on both sides. I caught about 6 last year from the edge of neighbor's property. Then I filled the hole (1) with the front end loader, it took about 3 buckets full to level it off.

Frank

pgmrdan
05-05-2004, 10:57 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

dvideo
05-05-2004, 11:24 AM
Call the animal rights folks out to come help move the gentle creatures. Steady diet of humans for the poor bits, that way...

--jr

lynnl
05-05-2004, 12:19 PM
That sounds like it probably is a badger.

When I lived on Mtn Home AFB, ID, one moved into my neighbors yard right next to my fence, and overnight dug up a crater about 10' accross. The ground was dished out about 12-18" deep. I never saw the critter, but the animal control folks that caught it said it was a badger.

I don't think groundhogs' excavations are that extensive.

uncrichie
05-05-2004, 07:03 PM
Last time I checked we don't have Badgers in PA. Uncrichie...

wierdscience
05-05-2004, 08:55 PM
Down here we have Neutria rats,Big arse rats,they are prone to come up in residential areas and bite people anlong with tearing up property,one sheriff in New Orleans had a plan to put little rafts in the canals with peanut butter on them so when the rats went after it his deputies could aslo get some target practice.Well the good folks at PITA said oh no don't hrut the poor defenseless 25lb rats!Then oneday somebody had one cornered in the backyard,PITA to the rescue,well the good lady from PITA put one some welding glooves and tried to pick up the creature,it bit the end of her finger nail and all off http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gifAfter that nobody really cared how many got shot http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

BillH
05-05-2004, 09:19 PM
Serves em right, It seams a bullet is often the best solution.
Guns and lathes, the 2 most versatile tools on earth.

spope14
05-05-2004, 09:58 PM
Story and real non lethal easy solution

Story:
I had skunk, mole, and other little creatures like mink and kitties and even the occassional little rat faced dog digging under my porch for the first five years I lived in my home (New Hampshire). Got so bad that a skunk got in late fall / early winter, let loose when my big old mutant dog fom hell scared it, and stunk us out of the entire home for three weeks (and runied all the Christmas presents we had just got in early. Skunk had been living there for two weeks, but was very trap wary, and nothing cound evac the critter. Finally had to wait it out in the yard and end the problem...

We also had these critters behind the fence, by the driveway, in the garage...you name it.

Then, an animal control person turned me to using MOTHBALLS and moth crystals. Seems the "musky animals" like rodents, kitty like creatures, and little rat faced dogs just hate these things as they really screw with their senses of smell (which is their main sense of direction), and actually cause problems in the musk glands so to hear. I put big old mothballs under the porch every spring and fall, and even those urinal cakes. The smell for us hoomans goes away quickly, and all said and done smells better than a skunk. I also put them on the fence line, and when the neighbors little rat faced dung monster starts to leave its deposits on my yard, I go out and sprinkle a few moth crystals on the line it comes in on.

Watched the little dung dropper walk in, hit the moth crystal line, and it turned rather abruptly and left. I also use these crystals and balls at my camp under the camper for protection against those dastardly squirrels and cute little chippies that entertain me so with their antics, but then irritate the heck out of me by finding little holes to live in under the camper and tearing up all that surrounds........

Try this....easy and cheap, and minimal effort.

BillH
05-05-2004, 10:22 PM
Spope, wheres the fun factor in it though? http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

wierdscience
05-05-2004, 10:39 PM
I find mothballs to be good for keeping rats out of old cars,they have saved several wiring harnesses.

PolskiFran
05-05-2004, 11:00 PM
Sorry lads, I don't have a digital camera yet, but its on the list. I'll have to take measurements and keep a record. It's getting to be an annual event.

FYI Three Mile Island is about 50 mi. as the crow flies.

Maybe I'll have to put on an engine show for them and fire up the maytag fleet.
http://jacktown.com/absoluteig/gallery.asp?action=viewimage&categoryid=23&text=&imageid=181&box=&shownew=
It will be a gas(sing)!

Thanks,
Frank

Rich Carlstedt
05-05-2004, 11:04 PM
Hey Weird
My buddy uses mothballs to keep mice out of his cars in the barn over winter.
Two years ago he cleaned up the place and I was helping him, I pulled out the full garbage bag and the bottom was half eaten away. I looked down in the can, and there was a mother mouse with about 6 babies, in a nest made of straw,string, and mothballs !

have used Flares ( auto safety type ) very effectively for ground living things.
Light it and throw it in the hole, and cover it with a rock, or damp dirt, so fumes do not leak out...watch for smoke elseware, and you will see the other exit points..be ready with a shovel of damp dirt to close them off.
They donot ever return to it after a treatment due to Sulfur smell I guess
Do not, I repeat Do not do this where you have a wood foundation or other combustionables...told my buddy about this and he melted his underground sprinkler system when the thing tunneled alone the plastic pipe..

wierdscience
05-05-2004, 11:10 PM
Good thing you mentioned that,you do have to change them every so often cause the do loose the stink,I put mine in mason jars with holes in the lid,easy to change that way.

Paul Gauthier
05-06-2004, 10:52 AM
I have used mothballs in my barn to keep the mouse population down. I does work.
BTW great pics, really liked the powerwagon.

------------------
Paul G.

Evan
05-06-2004, 11:01 AM
We had a skunk around last year so I put mothballs under the sheds and in the barn. We never saw him again so I guess it worked. We also don't seem to have any mice. I set some traps recently and didn't catch anything. I was concerned because the foxes and eagles ate all our cats.

Happy
05-06-2004, 04:22 PM
Rustybolt
When I said use a havahart live trap, I did not mean to save their lives. it is just around here, if I used a leg hold or conibear trap, I would probably get the next door neighbors dog, or the little girl across the streets cat, neither of witch I really want to kill or maim, even though they are in my yard. So, I live trap em, and if they are woodchucks, coons, or rabbits, they go for a peaceful swim in my little pond. Unfortunately, they are still in the trap, and, they don't swim real well in it.

Techtchr
05-06-2004, 06:58 PM
Put enough I beams under the building to support it then go get a few more gophers/woodchucks/ badgers to help, and dig yourself a basement for the shop. Could save you a lot of money in excavation fees.
Just a thought http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif
Matt

PolskiFran
05-07-2004, 01:24 AM
If I could get these little excavators to dig where i want them to dig, I would have enough coal to heat the house and the shop.

While cutting grass today I spied one opening on the adjoining property a little bigger than a 5 gal. bucket. I'll have to fill that one.

I'm going to try the bowl blocks for a deterent and see how that works.

Thanks,
Frank

PolskiFran
05-07-2004, 01:29 AM
Double posted in error, sorry.

Thanks,
Frank

[This message has been edited by PolskiFran (edited 05-07-2004).]

SJorgensen
05-07-2004, 02:15 AM
On the uses of mothballs I have to add that it has been our practice (and demonstrably effective) to use mothballs when winterizing our cabin. The reason we use it is to drive off bats. By spring the smell is completely gone and the bats don't like it at all.

Spence

SJorgensen
05-07-2004, 02:34 AM
On the subject of killing all the troublesome creatures, I just wanted to add that I got tired of it. I still kill masqitoes and flies and an occasional rat but I don't think of any of them as evil. As a falconer I understand the nature of and the necessity of the effect of predation. From that perspective I gained an appreciation of the necessity of the scavengers and the way that nature works.

I get more joy or fulfillment when I can see all the creatures living on the same soil that I do. I prefer the trees and the dirt and the squirels, or even the rats if that is all that is left, to a antiseptic concrete and steel world.

How I parse the dicotomy of creating things in aluminum and steel, and my earthy roots is where my main choices are.

Today I am trying to understand why the Bush Administration is or is not responsible for the torture of Iraqi prisoners.

Basicaly I think Bush is ultimately responsible. Rumsfeld is also responsible. Wolfowits, you decide.

[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 05-07-2004).]

pgmrdan
05-07-2004, 08:28 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

wierdscience
05-07-2004, 10:47 PM
Oh boy the Iraqi prisoner thing,no Bush is not responsible,Rumsfeld is for not telling him sooner,congress is for not acting sooner,now get to the real point,start at the Bull dike general and work your way down to the low man on the totem pole,they all should hang.From the general down they are all dereclect and an embarassment to the nation with the exception of the guy who blew the whistle.I noticed all the democrats could come up with was "we need to form a committee" or "we need and investigation"hypocrites!

I say discharge them all and turn the over to the Iraqis for judgement,between them and Saddam they will have a full doc.Don't allow any of this"we were just following orders" bs either,thats a copout for sloppy brass as well as bottom of the barrel recruits.Rant mode off!

ibewgypsie
05-08-2004, 07:13 PM
They tell me groundhogs taste like wild hickory nuts.. eat em.. predators give a smell all thier own.. they'll run..

David.. hee hee..

ibewgypsie
05-08-2004, 07:14 PM
DOuble post due to too many beers.. Sorry..



[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 05-08-2004).]

BillH
05-08-2004, 07:28 PM
Since when did people have feelings for terrorist scum, and American killing insurgents?
Only thing that dissapoints me is the reaction this is getting.

ibewgypsie
05-08-2004, 07:51 PM
gee are the terrorists undermining the shop too? tunneling under the floor?

David.. HA.. stack em like cordwood is what I say.... Must be sending a message to Iraqis in general.. they have been conquered..

wierdscience
05-08-2004, 08:29 PM
Yes the reaction is disgusting,overblown for sure.Best way to deal with it is to take the rug out from under the libs and hang the offenders,11 out of thirteen are democrats anyway,besides,the latest poles show 70% of the public support the way it is being handled,the libs just can't figure out why it isn't working.

jim davies
05-08-2004, 08:44 PM
Evan will no doubt be pleased to hear that they have just cloned cats with 10 lives. They think 11 is an attainable goal...

Evan
05-09-2004, 12:05 AM
I wouldn't mind getting another ouside cat or two. The real problem is keeping the Bear Dog from eating them for breakfast. Today I let bothe the Bear dog and the Giant Alaskan Malamute loose, sort of. Either one will run off. But, I hitched them together with a 20' line, collar to collar, and let them go on the theory that within a short distance they would inevitably choose opposites sides of a bush or tree to walk around. I was right. What I didn't count on was trying to untangle them. The Bear Dog is no problem. She follows and does as told so long as it is apparent that there is no other choice. The Malamute is sort of like Andy of Mayberry, he just kept following us around the bush and I couldn't go fast enough to untangle them. The Bear Dog was becoming exasperated, I finally got the lunkhead to go the other way.

I can't let the Bear Dog loose. The last time I did, years ago, she ran out the driveway and 90 seconds later appeared coming up from the back field, a distance of at least 1/2 klic. She obviously had not stopped to kill something...

Evan
05-09-2004, 12:12 AM
Wierd,

I can't let it go past. As an American citizen I am ashamed, deeply. I wouldn't admit to it here (being an American citizen) except that I don't think anyone that knows me in this town is reading this. The US military has done more damage to the credibility and reputation of the US than I could have thought possible. I was in the army, I volunteered during 'nam. I can't believe it.

Joel
05-09-2004, 02:10 AM
I am ashamed as well, but my nationality has nothing to do with it. Idiocy, childishness and meanness are universal. My embarrassment on the other hand...

Evan
05-09-2004, 03:02 AM
So, has anyone seen any more news on this potential flying bomb?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/3003058.stm

ibewgypsie
05-09-2004, 09:58 AM
Evan,

It looks just like all the other flying bombs that fly overhead. If I was gonna, I would not get a sick airplane.. They said it needed checking to see if it was airworthy.

David

L Webb
05-09-2004, 11:34 AM
We wonder why the insurgents keep attacking?
We show far too much weakness.

A problem was discovered and it is being dealt with. End of story. All that hue and cry about changes far up the command structure is BS. We don't need any inquiries or commissions investigating the matter further at this time.

We need to show some backbone here and quit the whining. Get on with the job we have taken on.
Everytime they show some politician on TV demanding we need to investigate this or that or that the President or Dept. of Defense has made a mistake only fuels the hopes of the bad guys that they can beat us. That simply costs more lives.

Don't let the predator smell fear or suspect weakness.

Les

docsteve66
05-09-2004, 02:16 PM
I suspect military brigs have not changed in the last 40/50 years. Prisoners (US military) have always been humiliated, abused, and "tortured" by military guards. The guards try to exceed each other in cruelty and brag about it. I HAVE NOT spent a day in the brig, but I was attached to the naval prison at Great Lakes Ill, as a "casual" guard in for a few weeks in 1950. Since my duty was "temporary" I was neither guard not prisoner but saw both sides for a short time. Frankly, I have little use for the military guards OR the prisoners they guard. Are these prisoners to be classified as civilians or military? Would the majority of the prisoners prefer to be in the hands of their country (as collaborators) or in us hands? Soon the USA will select its "puppets" and leave. Those prisoners who collaborate may be in worse trouble than the ones who were tortured.

I suspect the guards involved were posing for "bragging" pics. This is another "system that got out of hand- maybe for decades. Ask any man who spent time in the brig at Middle Camp Fuji, Okinawa, Leavenworth (SP?). The system needs to be changed. But not in the middle of a war, not by political pressure to win an election either way.

So fire the guards, officers with past brig experience as SYMBOLS if you wish. The symbols will return soon in different bodies. If they do not, the prisoners will rule. I suspect the abused prisoners pushed guards and MADE themselves targets.

I bet there are "ass kisser" prisoners who live pretty well there. Question is: do they "kiss Ass" because they love US or to avoid bad treatment? If they LOVE US they would not be in prison. If they do it to avoid bad treatment, bad treatment has resulted in over all good. Most important, if one american troop has lived longer, the abuse pays off, if one extra has died, the abuse should be stopped. THe real wrong is all the political pressure and assistance to the enemy that has come about. WE have given the enemy a tool, just as we did in VietNam.

Evan
05-09-2004, 05:34 PM
A properly run red line stockade will not allow such abuse to happen. Those people went far beyond the rules of the Uniform Code Of Military Justice (UCMJ). It applies to all in military custody, anywhere and anytime. This shows an abject failure at the highest level and I mean President Bush. He is the Commander in Chief and as such must take full responsibility. He is obligated to step down. He could be charged with war crimes.

BillH
05-09-2004, 07:32 PM
Gee Even, I think thats the first thing you said that I couldn't take seriously.

audrey
05-09-2004, 09:32 PM
At least it wasnt a Skunk. I had a heck of a time getting rid of the Skunks under my shop. The badgers fell victum to a couple of econobear traps. Yech very messy and final. PS The motto is no brain, no pain .Audrey

pgmrdan
05-09-2004, 09:48 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

pgmrdan
05-09-2004, 09:48 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

Evan
05-09-2004, 10:48 PM
Dan,

Try telling that to the Moslems.

This is somewhat like the Rodney King episode in LA. Did the police chief know this sort of conduct was going on? If so, then he should resign. If he didn't know then he should resign.

[This message has been edited by Evan (edited 05-09-2004).]

SJorgensen
05-09-2004, 11:24 PM
I agree with Evan, who is a very well traveled man and has some insight into international relations. I suspect that it has never been worse for Americans abroad. Another thing that most people don't know is that there are at least 90 hostages being held by the insurgents in Iraq. How will their captors treat them now? It is easy to talk tough about how to treat these people as though they had no value as human beings when you are comfortably thousands of miles away, but think about our soldiers who should be home with their families after they served their tour without proper flak jackets or protected Humvees and just want to come home. There are twenty five million Iraqis and 130,000 soldiers. If this becomes more generally inflamed there are one billion three hundred million Muslims. I would feel safer if we cooled things down and had less tough talk. Also about the supposed apologies that Bush is supposed to have given. This isn't the way the Arab peoples see it, and the reason is that when Bush was interviewed on Al Jazeera he did not apologize. Then he met with the King of Jordan and in a press conference afterward mentioned that he apologized to the King yet he has not been heard to apologize in any public way.

What is the best way to beat swords into plowshares?

Oh and one more thing. One of the guys who seem to be involved in some way with what happened to those prisoners was a guy that worked at our State Prison in Utah. He left that job because he had a man stripped naked and restrained in a chair for an extended period of time. The guy had to do his business right there in the chair too. When they released him blood clots that had formed in his legs killed him. His name was Michael Valent and the prison guard is Lane McCotter.


[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 05-09-2004).]

BillH
05-09-2004, 11:45 PM
Screw the Muslims, they never appoligized for 9/11, Daniel Pearle, USS Cole, those contractors getting slaughtered, and countless other things they did, and will do in the future.

pgmrdan
05-10-2004, 03:55 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

ibewgypsie
05-10-2004, 05:37 AM
The Answer, build more hi-tech weapons of mass-destruction..

Robo-killers.. kill by remote control.. If messed with they explode killing a area around them.

David

pgmrdan
05-10-2004, 08:00 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

wierdscience
05-10-2004, 08:10 AM
By the above mentioned failed logic then Senator John Kerry,who at one time both claimed knowlege of and claimed to have commited war crimes in Vietnam should not be allowed to run for President and probibly be thrown under the jail.

I see right through this and some of you don't,the media is stirring the pot on this,the Arab world will not accept an appology,they want action.

The general after investigation was found to have run a very sloppy command,"lax in every respect" were the words used by the investigators and this was long before the medias revelation.

The problem was being handled,the general and her higher level comanders were already relieved and returned home pending court marshall.This is nothing more than politics as far as the president is concerned,plain and simple.

I'm still waiting for an appology for 9/11,3,000 of my fellow citizens died for doing nothing more than going to work!Where is my appology?

For all the Bush haters out there,get ready,he we lose this one,you had all convert to islam,remeber you are infadels and you must die.No body understands the hatred and why it exists,they blame it on "American imperialism"they blame it on the fact that we are wealthy(even though the Shieks are too)they blame it on the inviroment,they blame it on Bush,but they fail to understand their enemy,they hate us because we are not Muslim,if you don't believe me then read the Koran.

Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it,never more true than today,radical Islam destroyed civilization before and now it is poised to do it again.

pgmrdan
05-10-2004, 08:32 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

BillH
05-10-2004, 10:13 AM
Right on Wierd Science, my blood boils every time I hear "Islam is a religeon of Peace". People who say that never read the Koran.
My friend showed me the koran, he bookmarked a few pages in the back(Really in the front, they read backwards) that clearly states,
"Kill all non-believers(anyone not muslim)" and "Kill All Jews".

Geez, I wonder where theses extremists get it from?
It's not surprising, the Middle Eastern culture class I took, the teacher failed to mention those points, and spent far more time seamingly trying to convert people to islam.
You know why they loved Mohammad so much? He was the only one who didnt lie, cheat and steal.
Geez, after this rant, I wont be surprise if some Immam declares a fatah on my head and next thing I know muslims are trying to kill me.

pgmrdan
05-10-2004, 10:40 AM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

Evan
05-10-2004, 10:58 AM
I have read the Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini's "little green book". I highly recommend it if you wish some insight into the fundamentalist Moslem religion. In their view non believers are in the same catagory as dirt, they are "unclean". They are not directed to kill the unclean but it is not a crime to do so. The recent events in Iraq have a meaning to the muslim world that we cannot appreciate without an understanding of thier religion. The degradation visited upon the prisoners is in thier view truly a fate worse than death. They (the prisoners) are now unclean and they cannot be saved and will not go to heaven. For every single muslim this is an unspeakable and unforgivable crime and must be avenged. The moderates will become hard liners. We are in for some very tough times.

pgmrdan
05-10-2004, 12:04 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

SJorgensen
05-10-2004, 02:22 PM
Two names seem to be prominent in the "softening up" of prisoners and directing how it should be done. They are private contractors who work for CACI International (a subsidiary of the Titan Corp.) One is named John Israel and the other is Steven Stefanowicz (/Stephanowicz) it won't be a surprise if these names also serve to add fuel to the fire.

IBew robot idea works great, until they get robots too. Our military complex doesn't care whom they sell to. In Iraq they are now wearing flak jackets we gave to their police forces. I wonder how many of the RPG's they have were made by our companies. The hand of the Carlyle group can often be seen in it.

It used to be war between those whose swords were made of copper, against those whose swords were made of bronze. Then those people also learned how to make bronze.

That part of the world has seen it all developed through war, and they and their religions have developed to galvanize (metal reference again!) them against war/invaders/occupiers and help them mentally justify their form of warfare.

Remember also that this war in Iraq is NOT related to 9/11. Seems that the viewers of the FOX Network are under this misconception in higher numbers than any other group.

We still need to get Osama Bin Laden before Bush goes on another adventure. I've seen information that Algeria is likely to be next. They have oil, and we've been sending soldiers to help them with their "terrorists".

We are helping to create terrorists instead of making a safer world.

I've come a long way, and learned a lot of the facts since the days when I spoke in favor of the war in Iraq. Alistair helped me see the light and on the "intelligence" it turned out that the emperor had no clothes.

canonicalman
05-10-2004, 03:03 PM
Getting back to groundhogs for a minute.

A guy I know just kills them by putting out small food balls made of rice and bread with broken razor blade bits mixed in. Apparently, the little guys just woof these down and die of internal bleeding. A bit cruel, but if you're desperate...

pgmrdan
05-10-2004, 03:23 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

canonicalman
05-10-2004, 04:14 PM
There are no dogs where he works, or other animals for that fact. Also, he places the food balls deep in the holes that the groundhogs dig.

BillH
05-10-2004, 05:03 PM
Dan, the middle easterns culture view of war is far different than ours. They are from a clan like structure with extended families that are very far reaching. Everyone knows everyone. Thats the thing about Iraq, the Iraqi's know exactly who the insurgents are, but don't seam willing to help us.
As far as war goes, they dont need declarations of war, and all these other man made blocks to war. You in some way hurt their honor, thats enough to cause blood shed, or simply the go-ahead from the families leader or immam. Families respect other families, because each family may be over 1000 people, and it would be foolish to start a family feud. They remind me of Klingons from Star Trek, if that helps out.

BillH
05-10-2004, 05:08 PM
My expirience with ground hogs is that if you have a vegetable garden, either the ground or your garden will be left standing.
Im almost with Sjorgensen here, if I don't need to kill them, then I certainly enjoy watching them, there are far more annoying animals out there, atleast ground hogs dont make a lot of noise. Now being woken up by a noisy crow... thats another matter.
Anyhow, if you kill one, only a matter of time before another comes along.

canonicalman
05-10-2004, 06:41 PM
The groundhog problem was a bit more serious in that they were chewing through a bunch of data cables that are burried underground. The loss of even a day of data was considered a major setback.

Apparently, they tried the trap and release method, but they either didn't get all the groundhogs, or some came back. So, "off with their heads". No groundhogs were a problem after that.

wierdscience
05-10-2004, 08:22 PM
Remember thou,true Islam is not the Bastardized version presented in the Koran,the Koran was written by Mohammed who was a priest in the temple of Baalam,the temple contained 360 dieites,one for everyday in the ancient calender.Mohammed supposedly had a vision in which he was shown that ALA(his creation)was the one true god negating all others.Intrestingly true Islam is an offshoot of Judeo/Christian beliefs as Islam was decended from Ishmael who was the direct decendant of Abraham(bastard son as the story goes)his decendants believed in the same God as we Christians and Jews,but later around the time of Mohammed Idol worship began in the former gods of Baybalon and Ur.The new bastardized version of Islam took hold,the Islamic world which untill that moment was the learning and technilogical center of the known world fell and gave birth to radical beliefs such as Wassabie which is the direct decendant of the radical religion we know today.

The argument against Isreal goes back all the way to Abraham as far as the radical Muslims believe,their beef with Israel does not have any basis in their hatered toward us.

Now lets go back in time to just before the first Gulf war,Saddam had a grandeous dream that he would oneday rule over an Islamic empire.It is common belief among radical megla-maniac muslims that he who controls Mecca controls the muslim world,he started with Kuwait,but his real target as Suadi Arabia,only the west stepped in and stopped him cold.

Now enter Bi Ladin,he is a wealthy Saudi(actually so was Saddam)after the first Gulf war the US and Brutain maintained equipment and bases in Saudi Arabia,this he believed was an insult to ALA and we should therefore be driven out,hince his claim to fame.

Yes there is a connection to Iraq in the war on terror,Alquaida is part of it as well as Hesbola,the moey trail isn't clear,but it does exist.Also we knew about the WMDS he had after the first war,and he was persuing the production of more after.The weapons that Libiya recently disclosed having are but one example,not all were produced in Libiya,buried in inspector Kay's report was the evidence that not all the weapons in their aresenol were produced in Libiya,they simply didn't have the facility for producing VX and Sarin.

The reasons for invading Iraq were many,the best one that houses the conditions is SCHOOL YARD diplomacy,simply grab the biggest kid in the yard by the collar give him a good beating and the rest will fall in line.

The reasons were many,he had the biggest army in the region,he was insane,he had links to terror,he had the capacity to produce WMD'S,he oppresed his people brutaly and last but not least Arab leaders all over the region are glad he's gone.

We are witnessing the colapse of the former Soviet Union in a smaller more rapid scale in Iraq.People are depressed and and still don't quite know what to make of freedom,but they are learning fast,what we are seeing are birthing pains,but they will pass,getting it right the first time is crucial thou.

Funny thing is ,polls taken today in Iraq show that very few people there are upset about the prison scandal,one Iraqi official stated that "it is only a single dot on a large sheet of paper,we know that the American people are good people as a whole".Seems the left is making a bigger deal over this than the Iraqi's.

No they are not looking for appologiees,they are looking for action,all invstigations should be completed before we jump the gun on this.



[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 05-10-2004).]

canonicalman
05-10-2004, 11:05 PM
I believe that the Koran deals with the groundhog problem in some detail. I think that the 'groundhog' is associated with the 'hog' which is of course 'unclean'. Therefore, like all semetic peoples, it is forbidden to raise or eat groundhog. I believe that Mohammed himself spoke of the groundhog in less than glowing terms. I will check with some of my Muslim friends to find out the particulars.

PolskiFran
05-10-2004, 11:10 PM
I've filled in the holes and set the traps. So far nothing in the traps and no signs of digging. I am suprised. I've usually caught a few by now. I'm stopping tomorrow to pick up the bowl blocks.

The groundhogs, possums, rabbits or field mice weren't a problem when the cat population was at its height a few years back. There are lots of farms nearby and kept us supplied in cats. They used to come through on their rounds every day. About fifteen cats in a herd.

I don't mind having them camp out, but when they start rearranging the landscape that's when I have to draw the line. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//smile.gif

Thanks for all the valuable input...on all subjects.

Frank

SJorgensen
05-11-2004, 01:49 AM
Hi Weirdscience,

As a Democrat I see things differently than you do. Although when we look at a metalworking problem we must see things from the same perspective. The news sources that I listen to, must have different information than what you are getting. If you have a minute could you tell me what your favorite sources of information are? I guess if there are factual differences then the resolution will be in what the facts resolve to be. I'm not sure which issue to use as a test. And this site isn't the place for it I suppose so I won't go into it here but maybe we could discuss things somewhere else. Still the question is; What is your favorite source of news?

wierdscience
05-11-2004, 09:21 PM
Spence,I get my news from ALL outlets,I also get it directly from eye witnesses,I have friends and relatives all over the world as well as several in the service.

I question everything the big three have to say especially since the start of the war in Iraqi,what was being and is being reported is not what is really happening,some of it is,but it is always the negative and never the positive.I have been told this by people on the ground in Iraq,the media is painting a very different picture than really exists,why? because they have an election to throw,they would rather see Adolph Hitler be president that Bush and that is a very stupid and foolish policy.

I learned at a very early age that actions speak louder than worlds,when in the political realm see their actions ignore their words,same holds true with the media.

I have been following world events,politics and the media since I was 4 years old,I was born at night,but not last night.Experience is the true measure of fact,not a reporters editorial.

I constantly get fed up with liberal media who while at the same time diefy Bill Clinton attack George Bush.It was okay and perfectly alright that Clinton lied repeatedly about recieveing extra-marital sex in the oval office,but the media is horrified because Bush prays.Is perfectly okay for Clinton to allow the military under the drection of the FBI violate Pose Cumatodas at Waco,but they are horrified if a terrorist is arrested without a warrant.

The fact is that according to them (liberal media)everything they say should be held up as gospel and anybody who disagrees with them is automaticly wrong,frankly people who believe their crap deserve what they get,unfortunately when the subject is terrorism many others die with them.

Without voices that present issues and back them up with FACTS both local and national there is no free press,they want to inslave us by telling us what they want us to beieve,how to vote,what to eat and what god to believe in.If thats not facsism then I'm a little green Martian.

Liberal radio is circling the drain because it is completely devoid of ideas,their is no original thinking just the same rumor and halftruths that circulate the airwaves.I find it funny that the same people who rail against corporate fatcats and greedy businessmen are more than happy to accept money from the likes of Richard Soruos a man who makes his money off the misery and suffering of other human beings,the hypocricy is frankly disgusting.

BTW,I would like to talk to you further if you would like,my e-mail is posted even if yours isn't,feel free.

SJorgensen
05-13-2004, 02:32 PM
What? Mine isn't? I'll look into it. It should be. I really appreciate the discourse and the critical thinkers on this site but the political topics are frowned upon. Still history, good or bad is being made now, and people need to have the courage to speak up. Otherwise our Democracy is lost. There are other places but usually you find everyone speaking on the same side of the arguments or flaming each other, and I'd never want that here.

About Clinton though I'll say this, his tryst with Monica was of such little importance in the scheme of things that I think it is merely funny. The things going on now ARE significantly bad however. I'll suggest another forum in a day or two if I get a chance. Otherwise I've got some casting and machining to do and I'm buying a used boat and trying to stay afloat financially all the while.

Thanks,

Spence

pgmrdan
05-13-2004, 02:47 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

stiven
05-13-2004, 03:53 PM
I hear lutefisk works pretty well..but then what will you do about all the norwegians?

dvideo
05-13-2004, 04:51 PM
If the Norwegians are tunneling under the shop, then may be you could find out why. Relief from heat, unusual minerals, or a convenient place to store hats....

--jr

wierdscience
05-13-2004, 08:42 PM
OOps!Yor e-mail is listed Spence,my bad.I live too close to Arkansass to ever vote for a Clinton,he and his brood are too well know here and not in a good way.The sex thing would be funny if it weren't the president,if him lying about it didn't cost $40mil,if him getting impeached didn't include the wag the dog missile attacks and the list goes on.He did lots of damage that we weill be paying for for years to come.His staff and appointed bafoons he brought with him are the ones resonsible for 9/11,but only indirectly,Jimmy Carter is to blame for all our trouble in the middle east as far as terrorists.

pgmrdan
05-13-2004, 08:44 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

BillH
05-13-2004, 08:48 PM
SJorgensen, your a democrat? No...
You know, you can tell some one is a democrat or republican by what they say, much like you can tell some one is gay by the sound of their voice.
Now the blue collar union workers, they are hard to tell, often they are conservative but vote democrat because of union.

canonicalman
05-13-2004, 09:21 PM
Hmmmm, Muslim Norwegians burrowing under a shop disguised as groundhogs! Well, this is clearly a job for our favorite Homeland Security guy -- Tom Ridge! I imagine that the ChoicePoint corp, with its 15 billion records on all 270 million Americans, contracting to the military dept of Total Information Awareness, has been snooping on this web site, and is now working out an inteligence plan so that Ridge and his buddy John Ashcroft can plan a spectacular raid on said shop with the FBI and their black helicopters. (BTW I've seen these helicopers here in DC, so they do exist!). Presently, we should be getting postings from PolskiFran (or his lawyer, if he's allowed to contact one, Huh? PolskiFran, never heard of him!) on the situation at the shop. Will the shop survive?? Only The Shadow Knows! Tune in next week for the next installment of this unfolding drama. 'Till then keep drinking your Ovaltine...

wierdscience
05-13-2004, 10:13 PM
Okay here goes,Jimbo as we call him did a terrible thing with the limp wristed response to Americans being taken and held hostage by the Iranians way back when,I remember the crashed helos out in the desert and I remember being held hostage myself by the media who for lack of anything better to do interupted Saturday cartoons to tell us kids how weak and wimpy America had become.

Jimbo also let the Shaw get over turned in the first place,big mistake all by itself.Instead of #A instantly kicking ass and taking names in Iran or #B blow up the embassy with everyone inside rather than take the position of immediate weakness and negotiate.But what did he do?,Yup Negotiate.

So the hostage went on and on for what seemed like forever until we elected a president with a backbone Ronald Reagan.

I would have loved to have been a fly on the wall when the phone call happened,but I'll bet it was "let'm go or I bomb your arses into oblivion" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

BTW,I also liked Reagans response to Kadafi,a 2,000lb bomb in the living room would change almost amybodies mind,plus we accidentaly dropped one on the French embassy,a win win situation http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

dvideo
05-14-2004, 01:59 PM
Do these Norwegians have mineral rights? How about animal rights? We do have bonified Nowegian Rats that have integrated well into our native Rat population.

I think staying on topic was pretty funny - for a while - till it veered off.

I have rats in my attic, but only ants and termites boring under the house. Too many rats. I have, in fact, prepared a wonderful feast for them this weekend. Home Depot is catering. If that does not work, then it is Shop Vac time.

I taught my kids how to catch flies with the shop vac. They think it is wonderful. Environmentally sound, too. Very sound, for sure.... We don't have fly problems anymore.

Also explained to all their little friends how we have to be environmentally sensitive now-a-days. You can substitute a vacuum cleaner with only a small loss in efficiency. They should go home and try it. My bit to help the friendly environment.

--jr

Evan
05-14-2004, 02:25 PM
jr,

You might find this interesting http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

http://www.cnn.com/EARTH/9612/16/sucking.dogs/

dvideo
05-14-2004, 03:25 PM
I did... expensive rig. I was thinking of a shop vac attachement. Could sell it on Ebay.. You know, putting on a wedding dress - have a sad story. Sell Rodent Vacs. Would get millions of hits....

There are many useful attachements. Back pack straps, extension cord coils, and such.... Can put good attachements on the business end, too. Wasp Suckers, Flea Zappers, and could flip directions to move the yard gunk back to the neighbor's yard - from whence it come. He has a leaf blower - puny thing, too. I figure a 5 hp Shop Vac would do a number on his cutsie leaf blower.

When all else fails, it is one way to assist getting the Norwegian Blue truly airborne.

--jr

canonicalman
05-14-2004, 03:33 PM
After a great period of reflection, I have come to the conclusion that the Shop Vac is the greatest invention of all time.

The Shop Vac is, in fact, an eraser of sins committed against your shop. All ugliness, disorder, and anoyances quickly disappear with the application of the Shop Vac. In short, the Shop Vac brings justice to the shop that is our beloved surroundings. What other tool or innovation can claim such a lofty state of achievement? What higher moral ground can be claimed than bringing justice into the world? Yes, the Shop Vac, the name should be uttered in reverent terms.

pgmrdan
05-14-2004, 04:16 PM
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[This message has been edited by pgmrdan (edited 09-02-2004).]

Evan
05-14-2004, 04:27 PM
Yeah CM, except when I can't find that little widget that I know I put right there so I fire up the shop vac to clean up so I can find it and the shop vac finds it first...

wierdscience
05-14-2004, 07:18 PM
I did meet Jimmy,it was on a habitat job and he was passing though as a moral booster,he is a really nice guy,he just sucked as a president.

His advisors can carry some of the blame,but not all,signing the nuclear reprocessing ban was one,and the mid-Atlantic sea snake study was another,Oh I didn't tell you guys about that one,good story for another time.

I agree shopvacs are great,if John Kerry stuck a nozzle to the back of his head he wouldn't need all that botox http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

JRouche
06-17-2006, 01:29 PM
Whatsa Ground hog? :D :D :D

aboard_epsilon
06-17-2006, 01:42 PM
Is it a badger

http://www.purple-twinkie.com/FlashMovies/Footy.asp

all the best.mark

torker
06-17-2006, 02:02 PM
OK...now I want to know about the sea snakes :D
BTW...can you get bacon off a ground hog?
Russ

StephenK
06-17-2006, 06:28 PM
Fran:
We have had problems with groundhogs in and around the garden and garden barn. What my wife has done, it's her garden, was to pour regular household ammonia down the hole and block it.

Also, our neighbors have two Rotweilers, and now I've only seen one groundhog passing through. If we trap them we are only allowed to take them two blocks away. I have two long blocks, five miles.

Hope to see you in Leesport in September.

StephenK

George Hodge
06-17-2006, 08:04 PM
Groundhogs were excavating a cavern under my barn floor,I tried a bunch of stuff that didn't faze the SOB's. finally poured a bunch of stale gas from an old lawnmower in the hole and they moved and never came back.

charlie coghill
06-17-2006, 08:44 PM
Catch him in a live trap. Hold a blue tarp in front of you so that the skunk can not see you. Fasten the corners of the tarp on a couple of 6 ft. sticks to keep the tarp spread out. Move slowly and gently lay the tarp over the live trap. Now lay some heavy 2X4s along side the trap holding the tarp to the ground.

Get a piece of stove pipe and gently shove it under the tarp and up close to the live trap. Now move your lawn mower up and put the end of the stove pipe over the exhaust. Run the lawn mower for 30 minutes.

Shut off the mower and gently pick up a cornor of the tarp and check skunk for breathing. If still breathing but on laying on the ground pick up trap and move to a quite place and remove him from trap.

Put trap back in pickup. Shoot skunk and GET THE HELL AWAY. When his bladder relaxes it will make one hell of a stink.

What happens if the exhaust kills him, probably the same thing as shooting him.

hrhoades
06-17-2006, 11:49 PM
I had a similar problem behind my shop. I ended up using cement reinforcement mesh buried under 6" of gravel. This stopped the ground hog problem I had.
Hal

Scatterplot
06-18-2006, 02:29 PM
Is it a badger

http://www.purple-twinkie.com/FlashMovies/Footy.asp

all the best.mark


The original...


http://badgerbadgerbadger.com/