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View Full Version : Gloat!!! Parting tooling



Black Forest
05-31-2014, 01:57 PM
I bought 80 inserts, a parting insert holder and a 90degree parting/groving insert holder for $150 delivered! Normally I pay more than that for just one box of 10 parting inserts. Not sure what I am going to do with so many inserts as I am still on the first box of 10 I bought nearly four years ago. All Walter tooling so top quality German made tooling.

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/burnandreturn/partingtooling_zpsa85a2dc6.jpg (http://s853.photobucket.com/user/burnandreturn/media/partingtooling_zpsa85a2dc6.jpg.html)

chipmaker4130
05-31-2014, 02:06 PM
Du saugst! I'm sure that's not real German, so YOU SUCK.

Black Forest
05-31-2014, 02:28 PM
Du saugst! I'm sure that's not real German, so YOU SUCK.

It is close enough! Danke. Actually I speak BruceDeutsch. It is only spoken and understood in a very small corner of the Black Forest.

chipmaker4130
05-31-2014, 03:06 PM
I hear ya! When I was living in Austria in the mid '70s, the locals said I spoke German like someone from Holland! (Of course the Austrians haven't got much room to talk regarding proper German) I made that guess above from what I remembered as the word for vacuum cleaner.

alanganes
05-31-2014, 03:14 PM
Nice score, that may be a couple of lifetimes supply of inserts. I have been trying to slowly upgrade the overall quality of my tooling recently, and a good quality parting tool is on my list of stuff to get.

chipmaker4130
05-31-2014, 03:18 PM
Question, Bruce: I've only ever used T-style cutoff blades in HSS and Carbide. While I find them generally satisfactory, I've always wondered if the insert type were worth the money. What is your opinion? Thanks

Black_Moons
05-31-2014, 03:25 PM
You can give all the spares to me, Along with one of the two holders since you surely won't need both. Seriously you suck :P Nice score.

Black Forest
05-31-2014, 03:44 PM
Question, Bruce: I've only ever used T-style cutoff blades in HSS and Carbide. While I find them generally satisfactory, I've always wondered if the insert type were worth the money. What is your opinion? Thanks

Of course the insert type are worth the money. I have not used up 10 inserts in 4 years and I part quite a bit and on tough stuff. Most all of what goes in my lathe that is round started out as hydraulic cylinder rod. A good deal of it is induction hardened. I really keep an eye on my feeds and speeds and don't worry one bit about parting off anything. Beginners luck maybe and good advice from Pixman has saved me lots of money and frustration. I only use carbide inserts on my lathe except for special form tools ground from HSS.

Tony Ennis
05-31-2014, 04:14 PM
You suck!

Grats!

DR
05-31-2014, 04:58 PM
Question, Bruce: I've only ever used T-style cutoff blades in HSS and Carbide. While I find them generally satisfactory, I've always wondered if the insert type were worth the money. What is your opinion? Thanks

The insert type are great, provided you buy good quality.

For years Iscar heavily promoted the self locking insert type similar to the Walter shown here. They have since pretty much eliminated them from their product line in favor of a type with a top clamp to lock the insert in. Third world manufacturers have picked up the self locking style, I would avoid those. When the insert comes lose you stand a very good chance of destroying the insert pocket (that's why one of the Walter holders is double ended and the other has a replaceable end).

For machines running unattended we switched away from the self locking type years ago in favor of an Iscar top clamp style.

For non-insert parting the "P" type blades work very well, we use those in difficult material, usually the worst that can happen is the blade dulls.

Daveb
05-31-2014, 06:08 PM
I hear ya! When I was living in Austria in the mid '70s, the locals said I spoke German like someone from Holland! (Of course the Austrians haven't got much room to talk regarding proper German) I made that guess above from what I remembered as the word for vacuum cleaner.

On a visit to Germany in the 70s, I met a German lady who spoke English with a very Scottish accent. She asked me where I learned to speak German, I told her Berlin, she said "Oh, they don't speak proper German there"

_Paul_
05-31-2014, 06:18 PM
I don't speak German so I will give it a Shakespearian twist....

Thou Suckest ;)

chipmaker4130
05-31-2014, 06:18 PM
Thanks, DR. I always thought those non-clamped things looked weak.

tyrone shewlaces
05-31-2014, 07:13 PM
I've used those non-clamped things a fair amount over the years and I haven't had much trouble with them. They are less rigid than a clamped type, but they are sufficient to the task for sure. The main thing is not to push them outside the envelope. When the insert gets dull, that's when they start to push that envelope and when it will bind or something and ruin the seat. So it's good that you have all those inserts. Still probably a lifetime supply there even if you change them more often.
Nice score.

Mike Amick
05-31-2014, 08:46 PM
LOve this basic info. While we are down this road.. let me ask. It looks like the inserts only
stick out about a 1/4 in. So how would you cut something bigger than 1/2 in. (or so)

Mike A

RichR
05-31-2014, 09:07 PM
My guess would be the insert is a little wider than the holder.

tyrone shewlaces
05-31-2014, 09:35 PM
My guess would be the insert is a little wider than the holder.

Yes. On any insert type parting blade, the cutting edge of the insert is wider than the blade, so you can cut as deep as the blade protrudes. On the front mounted holder you can see a radiused relief which determines how much clearance (depth) you have to work with. The thing I like about the straight blades is you can shorten it up in the mount (which isn't shown) to make it more rigid for shallower cutting to suit the operation.

Mike Amick
05-31-2014, 11:01 PM
I understand that it will only be able to cut the depth of the protrusion (x2) but was saying
that with some inserts it looks like they are protruding very little. So what if its a thicker
work piece ?

Mike A

RichR
05-31-2014, 11:26 PM
Hi mikeamick
The fact that the insert is wider means that there is enough clearance for the holder to follow in behind it without rubbing on the walls of the cut.

tyrone shewlaces
06-01-2014, 12:05 AM
Yea I guess my reply wouldn't be much help to the uninitiated.
By "protrusion" I mean the whole blade, not just the insert length. This means that if the insert fits into a blade that's 6" long, then it can easily cut a couple inches deep and with care probably 3 or 4 inches if you wanted to push it (a lot). By protrusion of the blade, I mean that the blade will clamp into a block made for holding the blades (not shown in the pic, but here's an example below), and the blade position can be adjusted to protrude from it as much as you want, within practical limits.
http://www.aloris.com/wp-content/uploads/cut-off_and_grooving_holder.jpg

a different type of block with no blade installed:
http://images.machineryhouse.com.au/Parting-Blocks

Mike Amick
06-01-2014, 02:21 AM
Thanks Tyrone

Wow .. that one does stick out far. Actually I just did a search and most stick out
similarly. I must have been just fixating on that little nip.

Thanks for clearing it up .. I want one now ..

Mike A

Glug
06-01-2014, 02:06 PM
I want one now ..


You can get insert blades designed to be put into holders designed for HSS. They are often called "hss compatible", and they can use the same inserts. The big difference seems to be the angle of the blade, since HSS holders tend to impart some positive rake in the blade (around 6 degrees). Normal insert blade holders are held flat.

I recently made the switch to insert parting tools. With steel, I found I needed to power cross feed to keep them in their optimal envelope of operation. Otherwise I had issues with chatter because I just wasn't feeding it fast enough. I guess I wasn't brave enough to jam that little blade in there that fast and hard. It goes quick! That first power fed cut was a leap of faith. I would have had fingers on both hands crossed if I wasn't so busy furiously pumping oil with one hand, and operating the power feed lever with the other. With aluminum, it was less of a concern.

I had a couple of lucky ebay snags on these holders (one for $21!). I still need to get blades for them. In many respects I like these better than paying for an intermediary block, etc. I've had some thoughts about organizing a group project to machine a bunch of these.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Dorian-D35-CXA-7-71C-Cut-Off-tool-holder-/221395638832

You may also find that with insert tooling a narrower insert than you would expect is the way to go.

PS: Black Forest, you suck!

Jaakko Fagerlund
06-01-2014, 03:09 PM
You may also find that with insert tooling a narrower insert than you would expect is the way to go.
Yeah, the standard seems to be 3.1 mm wide inserts, at least in the places I've been to and seen and used, though I have also seen 2.1 mm inserts used here and there.

I wish we would have powerful enough machine and holder, as we have an insert holder and one insert for a whopping 16 mm wide parting insert :D Talk about a beast, the blade itself is something like 15 mm thick, 50 mm high and 200 mm long or so.

boslab
06-01-2014, 03:11 PM
Dont get german call girls to teach you the language, youll only get as far as das is good ya, or ein beer danker
Nice catch

Ian B
06-02-2014, 06:23 AM
+1 on the insert type parting of tools. I use Sandvik, self locking types, 3mm wide tip and (I think) 35mm high parting tool blade.

I just switch coolant on, set power crossfeed for 4 thou per rev (which is what it says on the box of tips), and leave it to it. Totally uneventful parting off follows, and the bit that's been parted drops into the swarf and disappears. The largest I've done so far was a lump of 8" OD, 1" wall thickness steel pipe.

Having used these, I'd never go back to HSS parting blades.

Ian