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Dunc
06-16-2014, 02:50 PM
I purchased some Projects books from a garage sale. I know that these are collections of "best of" from HSM.

One that caught my eye was in Projects 8, Build Your Own Shaper by Marsh Collins.

Wondering if subsequent HSMs - whenever the article was published - had suggestions, accessories, errata corrections?

George Bulliss
06-16-2014, 03:06 PM
That one was before my time but I'll check with Clover when I next see her. She keeps a file of any errata found in the books so that changes can be made at the next printing.

She is semi-retired now, but does pop in a few times a week. Will reply to this thread and PM you when I have an answer.

Dunc
06-17-2014, 11:01 AM
Wow! Thank you for the terrific assistance.

George Bulliss
06-17-2014, 11:05 AM
Dunc,

I just spoke with Clover about two minutes ago and she tells me she will do some digging tomorrow to see if we have any information. Any changes or corrections that were brought to our attention between the time this build ran in the magazine and when it became a book should have been updated and included in the book. Any information that we have received since then should turn up in Clover's search. Will let you know one way or another.

JCHannum
06-17-2014, 11:41 AM
I seem to recall that the Marsh Collins shaper was an adaptation of the Gingery shaper built of weldments rather than castings as I had begun to accumulate material to follow suit until being dissuaded by finding an Atlas shaper at a very reasonable price.

This being the case, you might look for Yahoo groups on Gingery tools or shapers in general. Anything that can be used on the smaller shapers can be adapted to this machine.

Bob Ford
06-17-2014, 10:53 PM
I communicated quite a bit with Marsh from about97 to around 2004. As I recall the only problem he had was weld warp. He got first hand experience on that machine. It worked fine once the warp was corrected. I would suggest that you do test weld on scrap and then learn enough about welding stress and warp so you do not have that problem.

We had interesting discussions on target rifles. He liked bolt actions and I liked to make my own single shots. Never met the man, but he sure was interesting to exchange ideas.

Bob

Dunc
06-18-2014, 08:35 AM
In his introductory remarks, the author, Marsh Collins, notes that it is an adaptation of the Gingery design using bar stock and redesigning the components to avoid the need for dovetails.

The comment on weld warp is noted. My skills are rudimentary (and that's being generous!) so I may get a buddy who owns a welding shop to help out.

Thanks, again, for all the assistance.

loose nut
06-18-2014, 09:06 AM
As I recall the only problem he had was weld warp. He got first hand experience on that machine.

Metal warp's and builds up stress when welded. Parts like that, where there is more machining on one side then the other resulting in an unbalanced stressed state, should be stress relieved/heat treated/normalized (pick the one you like best) before machining to keep them from moving around as the stress is released. That may not be the most scientific explanation but it is the best one my old brain can remember:(. Maybe someone can educate us to a higher level on this.

Bob Ford
06-18-2014, 03:12 PM
Preheat and post heat. placement of welds and amount. You need good welds, but no more than necessary + a safety factor.

Preheat warms the parent metal so that you get full joining of filler and parent metal. Stress cracks can develop in welds made on too cold of parent metal. For the armchair experts you can get cracks from other things too.

Post heat slows the rapid cooling so the weld does not shrink and pull the parent metal.

Placement of welds Apposing welds tend to cancel each others stress. A few good welds spaced as needed causes less build up of stress. How many bolts and what size would do the same job.

Running a smooth pretty bead does not make you a welder if you do not understand what your weld can do to the work you are welding on.

Bob

loose nut
06-18-2014, 06:18 PM
For most applications that use low carbon structural steel/plate like A36 or 516/70 70 DEG's is warm enough and post heat is not usually required unless stress relieving, for whatever reason, is needed. Once you start alloying steel then everything can change. Applications have a lot to do with it.

J Tiers
06-18-2014, 10:37 PM
It seems that welding stresses should come from the fact that the weld metal is hotter than the metal around it...lots hotter, since it is molten. Obviously no force is exerted by molten metal, but as soon as it solidifies, it has to cool. In that process it shrinks, and can shrink quite a bit, at around 0.0000062 per inch per degree F.

The surrounding metal hasn't been that hot, and expands/shrinks much less, so it "jams" the shrinkage and causes stress, which may or may not be partly relieved by permanent deformations.

If you heat the whole thing pretty hot, obviously the temperature differences are much less and so will be the stress from the differential shrinkage.

boslab
06-19-2014, 02:02 AM
Without detracting to much it is worth remembering that welding is in fact a casting process without a mould, and behaves exactly like a casting, even to the little crater at the end of a weld, in a casting its called piping, the metal shrinks as it crystallises, the weld shrinkage is the root (pun) cause of distortion
Post weld heat treatment can alleviate the stress but does little to correct the distortion, once there it tends to stay!, or get moved about a bit with a BFH
Jigging the components is your best bet i would think, you could pop over and use Black Forests welding table! Lol
If free handing then a bit of guesstimating, tacking, hitting, tacking the other side, hitting and swearing usually works, imagine building a ship!, when on a visit i found they had several inches to deal with!
Mark

George Bulliss
06-19-2014, 03:26 PM
I just heard back from Clover and she couldn't find any mention of problems with the build. There might be an issue or two you stumble across, but apparently there is nothing major enough that someone felt the need to contact us. Best of luck with project!