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j king
06-22-2014, 10:12 PM
Friend took me to look at a small machine shop that owner died.they want to dispose of the contents .they had an auctioneer look and said they needed to get rid of a lot of the small stuff and then gave them a per man price for setup and auction day and 10% fee plus a 15% buyers fee.Executer figures he is not going to get anymore than just scraping it.may sell a few of the machines and then be done with it.
This place has a lot of stuff.several drill presses,a couple Leblond lathes,an abene mill in vg shape,A bp clone in vg shape.and tons of smalls...tons.....

I was thinking it would be a shame to see this stuff be scraped.My friend told me he figured that his friend didn't care who scraped it .Got me thinking what to do and if I buy stuff where do I draw the line.I don't need any of the machines but a huge stock rack full of stuff is on my want list as well as several large drills 1 1/4 up.maybe a large facing head and a 6 jaw buck chuck.maybe a couple hundred pounds of misl cutters.

I don't have the time or space to sit on this stuff and sell it.I said something to my son about listing it on eBay and he said as long as it didn't put him in a higher sellers class which is 50 lots a month..there would be waaaayyy more than that and he will be going back to collage in a couple months also.any suggestions ? TIA

Gary Paine
06-22-2014, 10:22 PM
Round up a couple like minded friends and split it up.
or
Buy a pole barn and fill it up.

A couple Leblonds and nice mills for scrap price. Wow! I'd find a way.

Ohio Mike
06-22-2014, 10:33 PM
The kicker would be how long you have to get the stuff out.

My first thought was they need to talk to another auctioneer for a 2nd option. Whats the general location of the shop?

mikem
06-22-2014, 10:52 PM
I agree with Mike! That auctioneer is lazy and doesn't know anything about machinist tools. Find a different one!

I might buy it myself! Where is it located?--Mikem.

Rosco-P
06-23-2014, 09:45 AM
Box lots of small don't have much value, especially after Auctioneer day labor is instructed to dump the contents of a drawer into a cardboard box with a lot#. Would you bid on a bunch of reamers (or end mills, taps, etc.), obviously used (not in original tubes), that had been dumped UN-ceremoniously into a box? Guaranteed that the cutting edges are nicked or otherwise dulled. The potential money is in the machinery, but only if current enough to be bought, cleaned up and re-sold by a dealer.

goose
06-23-2014, 09:59 AM
Opportunity only knocks once. All the logistical issues (storage space, ebay listings, etc) can be overcome. Either go for it 100 percent or wake away.

DR
06-23-2014, 10:37 AM
Based on recent experience with selling on CL I would no longer consider buying for resale and keeping the good stuff.

People seem to be making purchase judgments based on new cost of third world junk. Such as: "why buy your used, quality American item when I can buy a brand new one for less?" More and more, buyers are thinking like many here, a pos from China all bright and shiny is better than a cosmetically damaged item of superior quality and usability.

And, don't immediately discount an auctioneer who gives a low ball estimate of value. The auctioneers to beware of are the ones who give the high estimates of net returns from the auction.

flylo
06-23-2014, 11:17 AM
Anytime you can buy at or near scrap price for usable tooling & equipment, BUY IT ALL! Set up your shop, sell to friends, don't use craigslist for smalls,use e-bay. YOU CAN'T LOSE anything but time & fuel if you scrap it all. If you choose not to buy it & it s close to me please PM me & a finders fee will be sent!

Seastar
06-23-2014, 12:30 PM
+1 for what Flylo said--------
Bill

Euph0ny
06-23-2014, 12:31 PM
Anytime you can buy at or near scrap price for usable tooling & equipment, BUY IT ALL!

Heed the man, and good luck!

I like to watch TubalCain, Tom Lipton, Adam Booth, John Mills, the two Keiths and others on YouTube when I have time. One of the things that strikes me is how they often find useful and interesting used machine tools and tooling second-hand, at flea-markets and car-boot sales. Unfortunately, there is a dearth of anything like that on offer where I am (business liquidation auctions are about the closest alternative, but often way overpriced for my budget), but I wish there were...

I'm sure if you were to purchase the shop as a job-lot, you could drop any or all of the regular YT guys a line with a link to your "inventory" and a polite request to propagate the link, and you would immediately access hundreds, if not thousands, of potentially interested customers. The people who watch machining videos are probably also interested in buying machines and tooling... so use the internet multiplier effect.

Mike Amick
06-23-2014, 12:51 PM
It really helps to put your location in your account info. Some places used stuff sells really
well, not so much in others.

Mike A

cuemaker
06-23-2014, 12:58 PM
I am interested in participating if your vaguely close...

Will send a PM..

BigMike782
06-23-2014, 12:58 PM
Round up a couple like minded friends(or fellows from HSM!)and split it up.
or
xxx

Toolguy
06-23-2014, 01:32 PM
The feeding frenzy has begun!:D

justanengineer
06-23-2014, 01:55 PM
It doesnt sound like the auctioneer has a clue to me. I attend dozens of auctions every year, am close friends with several auctioneers, and SWMBO works for one, and Ive never heard of nor can I think of a reason an auctioneer would want you to sell anything before auction day. Ive actually seen the opposite several times, if somebody thinks they might want to keep XYZ the auctioneer suggests they wait til auction day to remove it, hoping to get the person tempted to sell by interested customers and high prices paid for other items. Also, Ive never heard of an auctioneer's commission based upon setup or the amount of help necessary, usually its a flat percentage + taxes/premiums/etc. JME, but auctioneers usually suffer from a lack of available help, not a negotiable excess, and the help's pay is pretty much a joke compared to the rest of the auction's cost.

To be realistic however, your description doesnt really give us a good description of the value. A Leblond flat belt lathe is worth exactly scrap - transport cost. A modern Leblond is worth significantly more. Similarly but more importantly, tons of smalls doesnt tell us much. Small tooling will be where the auctioneer will make the bulk of his money, small junk and stock cutoffs might be only worth scrap. Unless the shop is ridiculously cluttered or the crowd huge, a good auctioneer will do a shop sale on-site with very little handling of the contents which is fairly easy for them.

j king
06-23-2014, 02:09 PM
It doesnt sound like the auctioneer has a clue to me. I attend dozens of auctions every year, am close friends with several auctioneers, and SWMBO works for one, and Ive never heard of nor can I think of a reason an auctioneer would want you to sell anything before auction day. Ive actually seen the opposite several times, if somebody thinks they might want to keep XYZ the auctioneer suggests they wait til auction day to remove it, hoping to get the person tempted to sell by interested customers and high prices paid for other items. Also, Ive never heard of an auctioneer's commission based upon setup or the amount of help necessary, usually its a flat percentage + taxes/premiums/etc. JME, but auctioneers usually suffer from a lack of available help, not a negotiable excess, and the help's pay is pretty much a joke compared to the rest of the auction's cost.

To be realistic however, your description doesnt really give us a good description of the value. A Leblond flat belt lathe is worth exactly scrap - transport cost. A modern Leblond is worth significantly more. Similarly but more importantly, tons of smalls doesnt tell us much. Small tooling will be where the auctioneer will make the bulk of his money, small junk and stock cutoffs might be only worth scrap. Unless the shop is ridiculously cluttered or the crowd huge, a good auctioneer will do a shop sale on-site with very little handling of the contents which is fairly easy for them.

I'm not going to get a frenzy going .I need to see how they want to proceed.This guy was like a hoarder.Bought at a lot of auctions.They took out 68,000 lbs from the other building there.there were 3 semi trailers full of "stuff".Before there were paths thru the one building.I was told.The lathes are modern style regals, not flat belts.As I understands it this was like a training center of some kind..A tax shelter is more like it.

There was - is stuff that isn't worth auctioning I guess.Alot of odd stuff not related to the shops operations.that is what I assume they want rid of.(auctioneer )
I'm kinda excited but I know how I am.I can't throw stuff away so it will be hard to sort thru it and toss good stuff.Hang tight...
This is in ne, Ohio.

Rustybolt
06-23-2014, 02:22 PM
Jking.
You could contact the HSMers in your area and ask them to come in and make an offer. Stuff should move pretty quick. Be warned though. HSM types are, as a rule, a bunch of cheapskates so be prepared for a lot of low ball offers.

Paul Alciatore
06-23-2014, 03:01 PM
Would I bid on them?

Well, yes.

Top dollar?

Err, NO!




Box lots of small don't have much value, especially after Auctioneer day labor is instructed to dump the contents of a drawer into a cardboard box with a lot#. Would you bid on a bunch of reamers (or end mills, taps, etc.), obviously used (not in original tubes), that had been dumped UN-ceremoniously into a box? Guaranteed that the cutting edges are nicked or otherwise dulled. The potential money is in the machinery, but only if current enough to be bought, cleaned up and re-sold by a dealer.

Paul Alciatore
06-23-2014, 03:04 PM
Yes, the first thing I did was to look for your location. Big city, one thing. Corn Fields - another.



It really helps to put your location in your account info. Some places used stuff sells really
well, not so much in others.

Mike A

PStechPaul
06-23-2014, 03:09 PM
NE Ohio (Cleveland?) is close enough for me to consider a visit (it's about a 10 hour drive) or arranging for a truckload shipment. I am not as particular as most and I have some tooling and machines that would often be considered "junk" whereas I find it at least marginally useful or perhaps repurposed. Yet I know that I tend to be a hoarder (or perhaps accumulator or keeper), so I need to be careful of such opportunities as this. I do have 2.5 acres and a separate house I currently use for storage and my machine shop, so I could at least temporarily park a trailer full of stuff and take my time transferring it to a more permanent home or sorting and packing for shipping elsewhere or pick-up.

What would be extremely helpful is a video of a walk-through of the offering, and perhaps some more detailed close-up photos of smaller items. If there is a technical school or a machining-related club in your area, you may be able to get some help from them in return for some of the items they may want. It seems like a huge task but if distributed among many interested and careful hands it may be less daunting and would accomplish the "prime objective" of avoiding the scrapping of valuable items that may be among the true junk.

CCWKen
06-23-2014, 07:50 PM
I was going to say must be Cleveland but Euclid used to have a lot of machine shops and training centers years ago. In fact, from Cleveland east to Mentor was loaded with machine shops. There was a huge industrial area in Brecksville and north of Cuyahoga Falls too.

DS_park
06-23-2014, 11:50 PM
NE Ohio, not that far from SE Michigan. For once I'm close to something.:)

Keep a list of interested HSM folks and send out a notice if something happens.

DS

flylo
06-24-2014, 06:23 AM
Keep me in mind as I have the equipment after you get what you want to help with the rest. Thanks!

Gary Paine
06-24-2014, 11:09 AM
Out of curiosity, what would a scrapper really pay for a big machine if you delivered it? I've seen at auction where two big, old, and dirty screw machines went for $50 each to the only one willing (or able) to haul it off.

flylo
06-24-2014, 11:21 AM
About $250 per ton at the scrapyard.

DR
06-24-2014, 01:19 PM
Anytime you can buy at or near scrap price for usable tooling & equipment, BUY IT ALL! Set up your shop, sell to friends, don't use craigslist for smalls,use e-bay. YOU CAN'T LOSE anything but time & fuel if you scrap it all. If you choose not to buy it & it s close to me please PM me & a finders fee will be sent!


I've seen a number of people with that philosophy over the years, some even were machine tool dealers holding on to the obsolete pre-CNC stuff that nobody wants to buy. Generally, what they lose is space, they have so much "good" stuff that's too good to scrap they can no longer get into their own shops. They also lose time shuffling crap around to access that one item in the back.

What happens in the end is they die or are sent to the loony bin, their families are faced with the cleanup. A good portion of what they've got has no scrap value. We've all been to their estate sales wondering what the hell they were thinking.

Actually, I love those kind of estate sales. Around here they're called "digger" sales. You bring your work clothes, gloves and flashlights to dig thru the mess. You find a couple of real treasures and get them for less than scrap price because the family has no idea what they are and their only priority is to clear the property.

DR
06-24-2014, 01:24 PM
About $250 per ton at the scrapyard.

Then you subtract the forklift costs to load it onto your rental truck + gas and mileage. By the end of the day you're patting yourself on the back for the $20 remaining in your pocket for the day's work.

flylo
06-24-2014, 02:42 PM
Then you subtract the forklift costs to load it onto your rental truck + gas and mileage. By the end of the day you're patting yourself on the back for the $20 remaining in your pocket for the day's work.

If you can't at the very least double your money after all expenses & time you made a bad deal. Look at it this way, #1 you provide a service by getting rid of things people don't want or just want gone. #2 you provide a 2nd service by selling someone exactly what they're looking for at a bit less than full value, this way no line of tire kickers & normally the 1st person buys it.IMHO Everyone wins!

Rosco-P
06-24-2014, 03:17 PM
Out of curiosity, what would a scrapper really pay for a big machine if you delivered it? I've seen at auction where two big, old, and dirty screw machines went for $50 each to the only one willing (or able) to haul it off.

In the case of screw machines you can make money if: time permits getting a scrapyard to drop a container; you drain all the oil and dispose; you have a way (jacks, machine dollies, pallet jack) to get the machine into the container; you scrap the electric motor separate; you save and resell any change gears (bonus). At most auctions, for the obsolete machines you are bidding against and competing with the professional scrappers who do this every day. Not a way to make friends.

justanengineer
06-24-2014, 05:41 PM
Out of curiosity, what would a scrapper really pay for a big machine if you delivered it?

Depends entirely on the yard. Some pay the same for large castings as they do for steel, others pay 10-20% less. Regardless, scrap prices fluctuate like anything else so ask your local yard about pricing and restrictions.

Rosco-P
06-24-2014, 08:56 PM
Out of curiosity, what would a scrapper really pay for a big machine if you delivered it? I've seen at auction where two big, old, and dirty screw machines went for $50 each to the only one willing (or able) to haul it off.

One little detail not mentioned about auctions. Most legit. auction companies will only let you remove items that can be hand carried or removed via handtruck, furniture dolly, etc. Machinery is usually removed by a rigger (or scrapper) carrying a million dollar liability policy. as with every rule, there are exceptions.

justanengineer
06-25-2014, 12:50 PM
One little detail not mentioned about auctions. Most legit. auction companies will only let you remove items that can be hand carried or removed via handtruck, furniture dolly, etc. Machinery is usually removed by a rigger (or scrapper) carrying a million dollar liability policy. as with every rule, there are exceptions.

I dunno if I'd say its exceptions. My experience has been that large, usually closed (non-public) industrial auctions tend to require riggers bc of corporate insurance policies and fear of lawyers while job shop, large dealer, and smaller auctions very rarely do. Government auctions also generally dont require a rigger, even for the monster machines, you either have the equipment and knowledge to move an item and can follow their safety rules or you get uninvited to be there or attend another auction. JMO, but I think most folks here wouldnt be likely to be chasing 10k+ lb machines tho so its a rather moot point, we're more likely to handle fairly easily managed machines <10k.

Rosco-P
06-25-2014, 01:38 PM
I dunno if I'd say its exceptions. My experience has been that large, usually closed (non-public) industrial auctions tend to require riggers bc of corporate insurance policies and fear of lawyers while job shop, large dealer, and smaller auctions very rarely do.

Tell me more, auctions run by what auction companies have you attended? I've been to auctions run by: Hilco; Ashman; Koster; Comly; IA; Plant and Machinery; etc. and the amateurish Accelerated Buy and Sell. At every one, except the last mentioned, were prominent signs stating the auctions rules and the rules from removing purchases. Liability insurance required to remove even small machines like drill press and pedestal grinders. A 1200lb surface grinder or 700lb SB lathe will cripple, maim or kill as easily as a 10k HBM.

Another reason for requiring a "pro" is the property owner doesn't want the floor torn up by some hillbilly's rigging equipment.

j king
06-28-2014, 07:55 AM
Well I guess my friend made an offer for all the contents of buildings and said they accepted.do paperwork Tuesday .He asked me to help with the disposal of the good machines and is hiring my boy to list stuff on eBay or Craigslist for him.
I know I can't sell stuff on here but if someone has an idea as to show the stuff to you guys let me know.He said he didn't want to sit on stuff and to move it fast.

A quick list off the top of my head.2 regal lathes.all tooled..abene mill with around a dozen tool holders cat 40. Looks very nice. Several drill presses.Big little and in between.A cinciatti Bickford radial drill press.smaller size but prob.2000 lbs
Atlas shaper and table mill. A bp clone in vgc with tooling.

flylo
06-28-2014, 09:57 AM
I think it's OK to PM a list to anyone that wants one or at least a contact e-mail which I would like a copy.

justanengineer
06-28-2014, 12:11 PM
Tell me more, auctions run by what auction companies have you attended? I've been to auctions run by: Hilco; Ashman; Koster; Comly; IA; Plant and Machinery; etc. and the amateurish Accelerated Buy and Sell. At every one, except the last mentioned, were prominent signs stating the auctions rules and the rules from removing purchases.

Thanks, you make my point for me by only mentioning the large industrial, usually closed to the public auctioneers. Those auctions represent <10% of the industrial equipment sold in this country btw, for every one of those there are many more small auction companies selling "small" shops. Similarly, for every large industrial plant in this country there are many more "small" shops. At smaller auctions Ive rarely ever seen a rigging requirement, I was at a welding shop liquidation a few weeks ago where the only buyer with a rigger was one of our local shops that needed to remove a robotic welding cell and wanted it left in fairly easy to reassemble, large pieces. There isnt anything not "legit" about those sales, and frankly, if you think moving <10k lb machines is overly difficult or cause to worry in most shops you need to do it more often. A set of rollers and a forklift do wonders, many shops and/or auctioneers have them on-hand for loading.

Since you asked, Ive been to auctions by the majority of those you mention and have a few Hilco fliers sitting on the coffee table next to me. My father bought/sold industrial equipment for 40 years, mainly through DRMO, and you could literally say that I grew up in an auction.

justanengineer
06-28-2014, 12:14 PM
j king, I'd be interested in a link or info on the sale. PM me whenever youre ready to begin.

mikem
06-28-2014, 04:42 PM
I have an atlas that needs a few accessories and I have other tool weaknesses! Please send me (PM) a list. I can give you my phone number via PM if you have questions. Thanks--Mike.

mikem
06-28-2014, 04:44 PM
If you have an apple phone or iPad, like I do, you could do face time to show the items!--Mike.

ahidley
06-28-2014, 07:41 PM
Please PM me also.

j king
06-28-2014, 07:43 PM
Good suggestions guys.Will see what I can do.All I'm getting out of this is a chance to cherry pick several items.I have a small list but will be happy to spread the joy.Should I put tooling assortments in a boxs or just have end mills in groups,lath cutters ,drills reamers,ect..

There is a big rack with large drills.I believe most are #4. But may be #5 mt.looks like up to 2 3/4 or 3 ". Offer by choice or offer several random?
I don't have a lot of time to putt words this project but will try to do as much as fast as possible.No one else really knows what everything is so I need to watch that good doesn't get thrown into junk or scrap or mixed into random boxes never to be seen again.

I can't see me making long lists.Not my style or do I have the time.The buyer said he may put a yard sale sign out while we are there so if interested in stuff and your local enough I will let you know when we will be going up there.

Doc Nickel
06-28-2014, 07:58 PM
From your point of view, group lots are better. You get a bit less per tool, but you also have fewer individual buyers to deal with, fewer packages to mail, fewer transactions to keep track of.

From our point of view, individual is better; for example, someone might be in need of a .250" reamer, but isn't necessarily interested in a jumble of random sizes in order to get the one. Or someone might be interested in all the 3/8"-and-under shank endmills you might have, but has no use or need of 1/2" or larger, so a jumble of cutters might not be so useful.

And so on.

Best might be a happy medium- small 'lots' of 5-10 similar endmills (all 1/2" shank or all 3/4" shank, etc.) and the like. Although on larger stuff, like anything with a Cat/NMTB taper, or any Morse Taper drill over, say, 3/4" or so, might be best sold individually. And any MT drill over about 1-1/4" definitely should be at least offered individually.

Standard twist drills under about 1/2" should probably just be sold by the fistful. Square HSS lathe bits too.

It's also worth noting that some tooling should be reserved for each machine. Obviously things like 40-taper tooling with a 40-taper machine, or 5C collets with a machine set up with a 5C closer, but also things like a few drills with a drill press, a few cutters with the mills, etc.

Doc.

TOOLZNTHINGS
06-28-2014, 08:01 PM
I'm local and would be interested in looking. If anyone has time let me know time and location in a PM.

Thanks !
Brian

PStechPaul
06-28-2014, 08:28 PM
I'd be interested, so please PM me with more info. You could also put a listing on your own web space or a free service like dropbox, and then it can be updated as you identify items and lots. Another idea is to make one or more walk-through videos showing most of the stuff and if anyone is interested in any item they can refer to it by the time it appears on the video. If those interested have a link to your website(s) then you can update that with more details as they become available. It may or may not be OK to post a specific website where you are selling tools, but if it is your personal home page you can put links or more info there, and that should not be against the TOS of HSM.

boslab
06-29-2014, 12:46 AM
Sounds like you have enough kit there to bang it in a container and export it!, the demand in places like india is fairly insatiable
Mark

j king
07-12-2014, 07:57 PM
Well been a while since I posted.Friend bought the shops contents.They are in the process of moving stuff out and sorting ect...I haven't been able to go up there.My dad had an accident which caused a stroke and he passed late last week.Still mourning and trying to clean out his house which is 2 hrs away.I get home and wife says she wants a divorce so been pretty busy.. My boy will be taking pics of stuff and I'll let you know what's all there and hopefully some good prices for all.take care. Jim

Charles Spencer
07-12-2014, 08:32 PM
Sorry to hear about your Dad. My sincere condolences.

Charles

flylo
07-13-2014, 08:57 AM
Very sorry Jim, life can turn on a dime. Good luck & I hope it all works out.

PixMan
07-13-2014, 12:28 PM
Very sorry for your loss, Jim. I know how it feels, though it's been two days shy of one year for me.

I can tell you that time does take the edge off that sharp pain. May he rest in peace and may you find it too.

ahidley
07-13-2014, 01:41 PM
Sorry to hear of your loss. It happened to me several years ago. Time will help.......some.

Tilaran
07-13-2014, 02:13 PM
The feeding frenzy has begun!:D
Kinda like Kieth Richards spotting an unattended pile of white powder aint it :p

justanengineer
07-13-2014, 02:34 PM
My deepest condolences on your loss...

j king
07-13-2014, 08:54 PM
Thanks for kind words. Cleaning out his house ASAP has been really hard on all us kids..Well we are all over 50 so old kids I guess.

mattthemuppet
07-16-2014, 01:51 AM
Crap, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear about your dad, but you're still young enough to move on from the divorce. Work hard on keeping fit and healthy and you'll have the pick of the crop in 15 years or so :)