PDA

View Full Version : Semi-OT: Does anybody have a source for dogwood lumber?



SGW
07-02-2014, 07:18 AM
I'm looking for a piece of clear dogwood lumber large enough to make a guitar fingerboard. (Approx. 5/16" x 2-3/4" x 18" minimum.) I'll take an unsawn log that I could get the piece out of. If anybody has something, please send me a PM.

I've scoured the Internet, and while I found a couple of places that occasionally have had dogwood lumber, nobody seems to have any now.

lynnl
07-02-2014, 09:23 AM
Steve, the only dogwood (cut) I've ever seen was curbside from ornamental trimmings. I have a few small chunks I picked up when the opportunity was presented, but I'm pretty sure they're all less than 18" long.

What specific attribute are you needing, the hardness/durability?

JCHannum
07-02-2014, 09:33 AM
You might give these folks a try. They are local to me, but usually have a wide selection of hardwoods. I can never get out of the store in under an hour. If they don't have it, they may be able to source for you. Contact them by phone or e-mail as their stock varies widely and might not be listed on-line.

http://www.kencraftcompany.com/

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 10:04 AM
Just use cedar, nobody will know the difference...

Beone
07-02-2014, 11:25 AM
Not know the difference between dogwood and cedar????
One is rock hard and white, the other is soft brown and grainy. Maple would be a better substitute

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 11:28 AM
knew I was going to catch hell for that one but just couldn't stop myself...

what wood is so dense that it will not float? (besides petrified and water logged)

RichR
07-02-2014, 11:37 AM
what wood is so dense that it will not float?

Natalie?

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 11:40 AM
that's just plain cruel... :p

Weekend_Scientist
07-02-2014, 11:56 AM
what wood is so dense that it will not float? (besides petrified and water logged)

Lignum Vitae will sink in water, though I wouldn't say it is particularly hard. Mesquite and Brazilian Cherry are both quite hard.

Woodcraft has some very hard woods.

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 12:21 PM
WOW beautiful stuff,,,

http://www.woodfinder.com/woods/scans/lignum.jpg

Willy
07-02-2014, 12:43 PM
[QUOTE=A.K. Boomer...

what wood is so dense that it will not float? (besides petrified and water logged)

[/QUOTE]Wow good question, so this is the result of a real quick look.

http://blog.mischel.com/2012/10/21/woods-that-sink/


By my count, there are 183 species with samples that have specific gravity greater than 1.0. If you count those that have a specific gravity equal to 1.0, there are 209.

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 01:12 PM
incredible, probably not the best choice to build a sailboat with, or at least would increase the pucker factor when your way the hell out in the middle of the ocean and hear those infamous words "she's taking on water"


Then there's the humiliation factor in the Obit's when the write up states that you built your boat out of "leadwood"

Alistair Hosie
07-02-2014, 01:22 PM
Dogwood ! What does that look like ? I have never heard of it before sorry, does it have an english equivelent name? Alistair

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 01:43 PM
it can look a little like cedar that's why I said that - some light and very dark sections lengthwise and also some reddish --- but I think that's where the similarities end...

chucketn
07-02-2014, 01:44 PM
Tried to post some pictures, Alistair, but couldn't get it to work... Dogwood is common in the US. It's planted as a decorative tree as are flowering cheries. I have 3 on my property in TN. They flower early in the spring.

Chuck

KJ1I
07-02-2014, 01:54 PM
If you can't find a large enough piece of dogwood, you could try holly. Same density as dogwood and beautifully white. If neither works out, I have some rough sawn mesquite I obtained for a project I never got around to starting.

Alistair - only other name, besides its botanical, is "flowering dogwood". (Not to be confused with dogwood flowers).

Rosco-P
07-02-2014, 02:10 PM
Chuck are you referring to the native Dogwood? Cornus Florida http://plants.usda.gov/java/largeImage?imageID=cofl2_008_ahp.tif

lynnl
07-02-2014, 03:59 PM
Unless you're specifically looking for the white color, persimmon might be another wood to consider.

Lew Hartswick
07-02-2014, 04:07 PM
Haven't you heard the story about why Dogwood never gets big enough to make lumber out of?

An old Christian sunday school bit: The cross Jesus was done in on was made of Dogwood and
it decided to never grow big enough the make lumber. :-)
...lew... (I don't think this religious enough to keep it off if the admin feel it is delete it)

lynnl
07-02-2014, 04:07 PM
Dogwood ! What does that look like ? I have never heard of it before sorry, does it have an english equivelent name? Alistair
https://www.google.com/search?q=dogwood+tree&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=sb

It grows in the wild as a small understorey tree throughout most of the eastern U.S. Planted as a popular flowering ornamental in landscaping uses.
Seldom more than 20 feet high, with trunk diameter usually no more than 8-10 inches.

Extremely hard, dense, durable wood. Was traditionally used as shuttles in the textile weaving industry.

lynnl
07-02-2014, 04:13 PM
Haven't you heard the story about why Dogwood never gets big enough to make lumber out of?

An old Christian sunday school bit: The cross Jesus was done in on was made of Dogwood and
it decided to never grow big enough the make lumber. :-)
...lew... (I don't think this religious enough to keep it off if the admin feel it is delete it)

...also (as I heard it), the pink/reddish indentations at the ends of the four petals of the flowers were said to represent the crucifixion nail scars in Jesus' hands.

A.K. Boomer
07-02-2014, 04:38 PM
True story, http://www.promiseofgod.com/dogwood/


The Romans of that era didn't mess around - they used anything and everything they could for selective purposes - I heard they built some pretty stout furniture for back in the day too...

Optics Curmudgeon
07-02-2014, 05:48 PM
Try these guys: http://www.willardbrothers.net/.

Buzzer John
07-02-2014, 07:44 PM
I seldom reply to a topic because 1. Its a pain to log in and 2. I rarely can contribute. however, This time I might be able to help out. I have had a number of Dogwoods die lately. and may be able to find a piece that would fit your needs. Several problems exist !. I'm not too well at the moment and can't get to the wood piles for several days. 2. Since these trees died from some virus, can a piece be shipped? Also, I have never figured out how to respond without wating until I log on the next day.
John S.

flylo
07-02-2014, 08:38 PM
You may be able to heat the wood treat to kill the virus. All lumber that crosses borders is normally heat treated & stamped as such normally for insects but I don't know in this case & would call your local extention agent who could sent you to the right agency.

SGW
07-02-2014, 09:14 PM
Thanks for the leads. I'll investigate.

John, if you feel up to it, I'd appreciate you seeing what you may have. I may be able to find out more of what might be involved in shipping logs interstate. I just bought the sides, back, and neck wood from a guy who deals in instrument woods, buys logs, cuts them up, etc. I'll ask him.

lugnut
07-02-2014, 09:36 PM
Wood too dense to float, I think that Myrtle wood is one. You will probably find some dogwood before you find Myrtle wood unless your on the Oregon coast, they use it for firewood here. It is some very good looking wood.

J Harp
07-02-2014, 10:22 PM
Dogwood is very hard. It also has a very twisted grain so it's doubtful whether you will find a usable piece long enough for a fingerboard. In the past it has been used for small items such as small tool handles, spools, and spindles for weaving mills, things where the twist didn't matter. I think some of the tent pegs I was issued in the Army were dogwood.

The color of cured dogwood is pinkish, maybe close to the color or red oak, but with a very fine grain.

KJ1I
07-02-2014, 10:25 PM
I seldom reply to a topic because 1. Its a pain to log in

John -

When you go to log in, look for a little box under the user/password boxes that says "Remember me?" If you check that box BEFORE you press the login button, your computer will remember the forum site and automatically log you in each time you access the site. You don't need to do anything extra - just come back to the forum and you can see what has changed.

caveBob
07-02-2014, 11:06 PM
Gilmer Wood always has nice stuff... quick "fingerboard" search:

https://www.gilmerwood.com/search_results.php?page=&keywords=fingerboard&size=20

you could call or email too, not everything they have is online. Worth a shot

SGW
07-03-2014, 08:11 AM
I found out about shipping lumber interstate, and there are indeed issues, at least for commercial species. Dogwood would be invisible on the radar, but I still don't want to spread pathogens. Best practice is to de-bark, saw, and kin dry at the source. Since that seems a bit much, I think I'll forego trying to use logs, though I certainly appreciate the offer.

I have some native Maine hophornbeam which is also very hard and dense. I'll probably use that. Perhaps by the time I build my next guitar :D some dogwood lumber will turn up.

Thanks, folks.

Old Hat
07-03-2014, 11:42 AM
Ipe is hard dence and fine grained, and if I'm not misstaken heavy enuff to sink in water.
I use it to / for cushioning holding components in machining.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pc-Lumber-Ipe-Wood-Brazil-Walnut-3-1-2-x-1-x-30-1-4-Deck-Board-Free-Shipp-/151339717658?pt=Tile_Flooring&hash=item233c8cd41a

Seller's description follows.
>>One piece of what I was told (by a carpenter) is the hardest wood in the world. Very dense and heavy.
Weighs more than 4.2 pounds. It has a very thin stain on it. It was leftover from a deck and the edges are smooth. <<
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDE2MDA=/z/qQAAAOxyuR5TcM-F/$_12.JPG

Mike Burdick
07-03-2014, 01:44 PM
Just use cedar, nobody will know the difference...

Apparently not a bad answer...

This person suggests that many different kind of woods are needed to make a guitar:

http://guitaresmoisan.com/en/articles/10-2009.html


.

michigan doug
07-03-2014, 01:49 PM
Black locust and honey locust is pretty hard, pretty dense (though it does float) and generally has a lovely figure. Here's a google image search for black locust for musical instruments:

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+locust+for+musical+instruments&rlz=1C1KMOH_enUS552US552&espv=2&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=1Za1U7awD4-0yASdz4HQCg&ved=0CCgQ7Ak&biw=1304&bih=683

Also, pretty widely available.

There are no wrong answers here so far.

Is this a very special guitar????

doug

bob_s
07-03-2014, 01:57 PM
Diamond willow

elf
07-03-2014, 09:38 PM
I found out about shipping lumber interstate, and there are indeed issues, at least for commercial species. Dogwood would be invisible on the radar, but I still don't want to spread pathogens. Best practice is to de-bark, saw, and kin dry at the source. Since that seems a bit much, I think I'll forego trying to use logs, though I certainly appreciate the offer.

I have some native Maine hophornbeam which is also very hard and dense. I'll probably use that. Perhaps by the time I build my next guitar :D some dogwood lumber will turn up.

Thanks, folks.

I don't think you want to use kiln dried wood in a guitar (or any other musical instrument) unless it's just for decoration.

Old Hat
07-03-2014, 10:25 PM
5 years natural minimum for musical instruments.
3 years for quality furniture.
Saw it on the History Channel bout Stratovarius.;)

davidwdyer
07-04-2014, 07:57 AM
Ipe is hard dence and fine grained, and if I'm not misstaken heavy enuff to sink in water.
I use it to / for cushioning holding components in machining.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1-Pc-Lumber-Ipe-Wood-Brazil-Walnut-3-1-2-x-1-x-30-1-4-Deck-Board-Free-Shipp-/151339717658?pt=Tile_Flooring&hash=item233c8cd41a

Seller's description follows.
>>One piece of what I was told (by a carpenter) is the hardest wood in the world. Very dense and heavy.
Weighs more than 4.2 pounds. It has a very thin stain on it. It was leftover from a deck and the edges are smooth. <<
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDE2MDA=/z/qQAAAOxyuR5TcM-F/$_12.JPG

I'm not sure it's harder than paraju which is also from Brazil.

I'm also not sure it's harder than ironwood found in Minnesota and, no doubt, other places.

I use ipé for projects here in place of aluminum since it is cheap and readily available.

It is one of the most common woods used to support clay tile roofs, since the termites have trouble chewing it unless it gets wet and rots.

cameron
07-04-2014, 09:54 AM
5 years natural minimum for musical instruments.
3 years for quality furniture.
Saw it on the History Channel bout Stratovarius.;)

Stratovarius, hey he's the guy who designed that guitar for Fender.

Northernsinger
07-04-2014, 03:31 PM
I've made and repaired guitars, though not lately. I'm curious as to why dogwood is spec'd, as I wouldn't think it very practical in its natural state, too light colored for fingerboarding, though hard enough I would think. Fingers will stain that wood quickly unless it is dyed, I'd guess. Some light colored woods have had fingerboard use--pear and poplar come to mind--but always dyed, I think.

JohnMartin
07-05-2014, 03:20 PM
SGW

I've been lurking here for years. Tried to register back around 2006, but somehow it didn't go through. When I saw your post the other day, I decided to try again.

I'm also in Maine (Cumberland), and I have a couple of half logs of dogwood that I cut maybe 35 years ago. Diameter 4" plus, maybe 5 feet long. They have been stored in the rafters in my basement for many years and are dry.

I can easily spare what you are looking for.

John

SGW
07-05-2014, 07:59 PM
John - check for PM.

J Tiers
07-06-2014, 09:18 AM
Not know the difference between dogwood and cedar????
One is rock hard and white, the other is soft brown and grainy. Maple would be a better substitute

When was the last time you saw any cedar?

There is cedar as in western red cedar.... soft, light weight, red-brown to white wood. It's actually not a cedrus, but thuja plicata... a cypress

There is "real" cedar...meaning "aromatic' cedar. What I call "peaches and cream" cedar... that can be very hard. Just cut down a cedar that was in the way of some other work (didn't want to, but ...) having trimmed the stump with an ax, I can verify that it ain't even close to western red cedar.... the logs are heavy, and it's tough stuff. It's still not an actual cedrus, though, so calling it "real" is more-or-less wrong.

There is cedrus libani, or "cedar of lebanon", which was a Biblical structural material. That is a member of the pine family, and has needles as opposed to the "fronds" of what we usually think of as cedar..

The one I cut was a cypress family type, but still had hard wood