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freddycougar
07-06-2014, 10:20 PM
hello just tapping the brains here ,,I need opinions if that's ok.. im building a house up north.. the house never got heat over winter.. thus the strip footings in the basement froze and heaved ther 20 feet long, one end is llined up with wall footings and the free end is heaved up 4 inches.. I have dug a sump and ihas been draining for 3/4 weeks I put a fan to move the air to help it dry .. im thinking ..what woud bring this level? and yes the trusses have sepetated from the walls about 2 inches on both sides but are tight on the ridge beam.. any thoughts?
thanks freddy

winchman
07-07-2014, 12:32 AM
I think you're going to have to rig a temporary support for the roof one side at a time, remove the walls, and replace the footings. Even if (and that's a big if) you can get the footings back into position, they'll never carry their designed load.

An aside...I thought you normally put the footings deep enough to rest on soil that wouldn't heave, i.e. below the frost line.

sasquatch
07-07-2014, 08:16 AM
I'm thinking your'e going to have to replace the footings, i saw that back years ago, same situation house was left with no heat, frost naturaly froze the ground and heaved and broke the footings.

SteveF
07-07-2014, 08:22 AM
.....
An aside...I thought you normally put the footings deep enough to rest on soil that wouldn't heave, i.e. below the frost line.

Code does require that. But if the frost line is 6' and you put the footers 9' down and build a basement it is still only a foot from the cold air to the footers if you don't heat the basement air.

This is what you call "an expensive lesson".

Steve

firbikrhd1
07-07-2014, 08:35 AM
I'd say you're in a pickle. Then only thing to do is replace the footings and do it properly this time keeping them below the frost line and on a well drained base. Six inches of compacted stone/gravel under them would be a good choice if you have dampness to deal with. You may be able to get away without compacting the gravel since it is 95% compacted just by placing it.
Some codes are now requiring insulation on the outside of the footers to a level below the frost line; an effort to trap the heat in the ground around the footers and prevent freezing and heave.
If you try to shortcut and fix what you have you'll probably be babysitting this for years to come and end up spending more money than it would cost to just fix it correctly now. At the very least I would contract with an engineer, geotechnical and or structural and get options from an informed expert.

jep24601
07-07-2014, 12:57 PM
Only 4"! I've seen worst settlement problems. Just try and live with it unless you want to spend a fortune. So the house is a little crooked - probably looks like the neighbor's houses now. Keep the upper construction a little flexible - use paneling and not drywall/sheetrock/gypsum board, no ceramic floor tile.

kendall
07-07-2014, 02:11 PM
Only 4"! I've seen worst settlement problems. Just try and live with it unless you want to spend a fortune. So the house is a little crooked - probably looks like the neighbor's houses now. Keep the upper construction a little flexible - use paneling and not drywall/sheetrock/gypsum board, no ceramic floor tile.

Agree, 4 inches isn't terrible. May be able to trim it with a partner saw to provide a level footing. Other options is to shim the sills in the rest of the house,which is actually pretty easy to do, or rebuild the section of wall above the lifted section, that is a compromise because the house will be level, but floor will slope.
I've leveled ancient houses with field stone and mortar foundations by building stud walls inside the foundation, then extending the old foundation to the sill, on some the walls were removed afterwards, on others they were left in place, in a few I poured an angled concrete inner wall

firbikrhd1
07-07-2014, 04:15 PM
Only 4"! I've seen worst settlement problems. Just try and live with it unless you want to spend a fortune. So the house is a little crooked - probably looks like the neighbor's houses now. Keep the upper construction a little flexible - use paneling and not drywall/sheetrock/gypsum board, no ceramic floor tile.

IMHO, That thought process might be OK if you're going to live in the house for the remainder of your life and resale will never be a factor and you don't mind living with the continual problems that will arise as the footer continues to heave and fall. On the other hand if you plan to eventually sell the house in order to upgrade or maybe even provide for your care in your waning years resale value will likely be impacted. Fixing it right will never get any less expensive than it is right now and if you fix it right you won't have to worry about the ill effects of continual footing movement.

jep24601
07-07-2014, 05:34 PM
......factor and you don't mind living with the continual problems that will arise as the footer continues to heave and fall.

The footing shouldn't heave again unless it is allowed to freeze again - which would also ruin a new footing.

firbikrhd1
07-07-2014, 05:49 PM
The footing shouldn't heave again unless it is allowed to freeze again - which would also ruin a new footing.

Perhaps I misunderstood your solution, but if the footing isn't deep enough (below the frost line) it will surely freeze again. A replacement footing should be dug deep enough to be below the frost line. Everything I've ever read or been taught and every engineer I've spoken to has indicated that footings should be dug below the frost line whether the structure is heated or not. It is also probably not the best practice to depend upon heating a structure to keep footings from heaving. The day will come when power is out, or the structure is vacant without heat and there will be a repeat performance of heaving.

IdahoJim
07-07-2014, 08:03 PM
Winchman has the idea.....temporary support for the floor. Probably railroad ties on top of the ground with a studwall supporting the floor. If it were me, I'd do that on both sides of the center footing....leaving about a 6' wide "alley" to allow removal and repouring of the ftng.
As far as being below frost. That is true for an unheated crawl space, but I've never seen a basement ftng poured well-below the frost level. The basement floor is several feet below the outside grade , so is already below the frost line. To frost-heave that ftng it must have gotten REALLY cold, and stayed REALLY cold, inside the basement, for quite a few days.
The OP mentioned draining the basement. That makes me wonder if the heaving is a result of swelling of clay in the soil, and NOT frost. If that is the case, it's going to require removal of the clay soil, and installation of sewer rock (no fines), or other well-draining gravel fill, to stop the heaving.
Jim

firbikrhd1
07-07-2014, 08:52 PM
Winchman has the idea.....temporary support for the floor. Probably railroad ties on top of the ground with a studwall supporting the floor. If it were me, I'd do that on both sides of the center footing....leaving about a 6' wide "alley" to allow removal and repouring of the ftng.
As far as being below frost. That is true for an unheated crawl space, but I've never seen a basement ftng poured well-below the frost level. The basement floor is several feet below the outside grade , so is already below the frost line. To frost-heave that ftng it must have gotten REALLY cold, and stayed REALLY cold, inside the basement, for quite a few days.
The OP mentioned draining the basement. That makes me wonder if the heaving is a result of swelling of clay in the soil, and NOT frost. If that is the case, it's going to require removal of the clay soil, and installation of sewer rock (no fines), or other well-draining gravel fill, to stop the heaving.
Jim

I was thinking of a walk out basement with perhaps two or three sides exposed and above ground. Probably tunnel vision on my part, that's how my basement is. If the entire basement is below ground you are probably correct about footings not being required to be poured well below frost level.

IdahoJim
07-07-2014, 09:37 PM
I was thinking of a walk out basement with perhaps two or three sides exposed and above ground. Probably tunnel vision on my part, that's how my basement is. If the entire basement is below ground you are probably correct about footings not being required to be poured well below frost level.
It depends, too, on the soil. Around here, we have a well-draining gravelly soil, so it doesn't retain much water. To frost heave, you need both very cold temps, and a soil that tends to hold the water.
Jim

freddycougar
07-07-2014, 11:57 PM
thanks for the ideas,, the problem was not getting heat in the building as it was not insulated over winter 6 months of winter here @-30-40 .. Im thinking the clay dig get saturated with water,,? I might try dehumidifie it for its very humid here and wet it takes 3 days for drywall mud to dry
and as I look further to day ,I think the whole house is lifted as the pillions for the deck seem out , like the house is too high. I have a larg fan in there now over 1 month and the clay is still wetish..anyway thanks all