Rivet setter question

[J Tiers]

I have had for a while a couple of rivet setters, which are probably for either split rivets or tubular rivets, possibly both, especially if the anvil is changed. Patent dates are well over 100 years ago.

One is a hand tool, the other is a bench tool.

The question is about the bench tool. The thing has a LOT of "ram" travel, but the extension of the "ram" is very small, maybe 0.1" above the frame. Clearly not enough to set a split rivet, but possibly fine for a tubular rivet.

Do these typically have a replaceable buck that drops into the hole for different rivet types? Was the ram specific to a particular type of rivet? Or did some bozo just cut this one off? (It does not look like that happened)





The thing as-is sets both types as well as can be expected for the anvil that needs a bit of touch-up. And I expect I can drop an extension in for longer travel. I might just make a new anvil and keep the original in case some later owner wants an "antique" without mods.

Mostly curious, also not sure of the anvil difference for split vs tubular (if any). A split rivet could have an anvil more like a wire crimper, but the alignment would be critical, so a regular circular type might be more practical.

[Old Hat]

Rivets that pass thru two thick layers would be long. The ram then would need to
be able to retract far enough to house the rivit. The throw would push the rivit thru
both layers and then seat it. Remember a hollow rivit is only hollow near the end.
I've found rivits around 3/16" diameter over 3/4" long.

[ahidley]

I'm not trying to hijack the thread. But who sells a tubular rivet assortment that would rival harbor freight prices? I've searched on and off for months and they are seeking an arm and a leg for them.

[flylo]

Might help to know what country you're from, I assume the US because of HF but you can look them up almost anywhere.

I'm not trying to hijack the thread. But who sells a tubular rivet assortment that would rival harbor freight prices? I've searched on and off for months and they are seeking an arm and a leg for them.

[J Tiers]

Rivets that pass thru two thick layers would be long. The ram then would need to
be able to retract far enough to house the rivit. The throw would push the rivit thru
both layers and then seat it. Remember a hollow rivit is only hollow near the end.
I've found rivits around 3/16" diameter over 3/4" long.

Or longer, but the material can't be thicker than the space under the anvil. In this case about 13/16" less the rivet head and formed crimp.

There is no provision for aligning the loose rivet, so it would presumably be stuck through the material and then set. Otherwise it would most of the time come up more-or-less crosswise. So the throw is not really needed for sticking a long rivet down.... unless you put it in, then align the hole over it, and you have to align all the pieces at once.

[Cuttings]

It looks to me like it may have been used to rivet linings on brake bands.
If that is the case the ram (lower part) would be flat on the end and the amount of protrusion would on be enough to accommodate the countersink of the rivet head into the lining.
The upper (threaded part ) would be machined for the contour of the set. Usually for hollow brass rivets.
The extra travel of the ram would be so you could drop the rivet head first onto the lowered ram,
then when the band was properly positioned it would raise the rivet into place and set it.
This is my best guess from what I can see in the picture.

[J Tiers]

Possibly. But the patent date on the thing is 1897, probably before the wide use of standardized riveted brake linings.... or wide use of cars, for that matter. With a US patent date given, usually that dates the piece with in 17 years of the patent date, although they may have left it on the units even after that.

[boslab]

Id guess its for the copper rivets ive seen on leatherwork like saddles and stuff, the ones ive seen had a copper rivet with a washer set up, just an idea, seen them on an old cooking pan and the like too
Mark

[Old Hat]

Trust me, the rivet was dropped into the bore, what ever the use.
We're only given two hands, barely enough to position the parts to be rivited,
position the rivet-er and actuate it. Handy to at least not have to hold and
insert the rivet in a spot with little or no clearence.

[J Tiers]

Of course that makes sense, and was what I initially assumed.

That was before I tried it!

Might work on leather, maybe, where the hole is made by the rivet. He don't want to go through a pre-cut hole straight!

Might work much better with a flat-headed rivet. Once you put the rivet through, you can put on a washer for leather.

Does set a split rivet OK, but you really need to put in a short piece as a buck, otherwise the throw is too short. But it's OK for a tubular rivet, or a hollow-end rivet. You can put in the rivet first in the hole, then move work and rivet to tool and crimp it. Much the same as the hand tool.

[Old Hat]

Might work much better with a flat-headed rivet. .

Tools like that are for flat head rivets.
Manufacturing a round head rivet is actually more of a process
and a tad more expencive. But to hot rivet the backing tool or anvil tool
it might have been called, doesn't stay put on flat-head rivets.
And the flat head may end up too thin from the swaging or heading on the other end.

Round head rivets not put in hot, are rare and only done for aestetic effect.
>My terms here may be less than accurate< please feel free to correct if some-one knows
the real gritty knitty behind hot riveting. I've asked these questions as a kid.
Lot's of brain cells on vacation since then.

[J Tiers]

For a hollow or split rivet, the buck is less important as to shape.... there is no serious squeezing. Only the "tails" or the thin hollow area has to be formed.

A solid rivet to be headed is not for this kind of tool, it isn't near strong enough and neither are you or I. You need hydraulic pressure, or a hammer. And even then it is far better done hot, where it shrinks tight, and upsets to fill the hole.

I have cold-set lots of rivets with a hammer, but it isn't as good.

[J Tiers]

There are hollow-end rivets, and then there are hollow-end rivets.

This device is clearly for the light gauge types, and mostly for "tubular" rivets and split rivets. I tried some hollow-end rivets, and in most cases, it was not nearly good enough, although it could set one or two of the lightest gauge types with thin ends.

Works great with tubular rivets, and split rivets, so long as the anvil is appropriate. Each size has a "best" size anvil, and some the anvil in it now cannot set, it splits them.

I very much doubt that the semi-solid tubular-end rivets I recall for brake linings could be even started with this press, without using so much pressure that the cast iron arm might break off.

[john hobdeclipe]

I think it probably is set up for interchangeable anvils top and bottom. Flat head rivets will take different anvils from round head, etc.

You will probably learn a lot about rivets and rivet tools by browsing this website:

http://www.rivetsinstock.com/

I'm not connected with these folks in any way other than being a very satisfied customer. I use stainless steel semi tubular rivets in one of the items I make, and these folks have been a big help in learning what to buy and how to make everything work. And on one recent occasion they went to some extra effort to get an order to me in time to finish up some items at the last minute.

They have a selection of rivet squeezers and the anvils for them. Perhaps some of these anvils may fit your tool?