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Higgo
07-14-2014, 10:29 PM
Hi all, I've got a lot of hydraulic hoses to crimp and also want to have a go at making a swaging press/ hose crimper/ hose press or what ever other names it known as. I'm prepared to buy the dies as I think I'll only need a couple of different sizes. I don't really want to buy the hose press for private use so thought I'd try and make one! Has anyone else built one? I was thinking cheap air/hydraulic jack with a frame built around it. I'm a fitter and turner by trade so I should be fine with the build but I wanted to see if anyone had built a really good one. They all seem to sell for over $1200AUS used and I think I'd be able to build one for around $350. I don't really want to use field attachable fittings because the cost of some of the larger ones would outweigh the benefit of using them. I'm also a long way from a hose shop so It's really not that practical for me. I have access to large hydraulic press too so the frame could possibly be built to use that and not a jack. I've seen a couple of similar ones but never any good detail on them. I also want to use brand name crimps... the usual names but not really fussed as to what brand. I would like to able to crimp up to 2" or even slightly larger.

Also I know everyone has different opinions on hose making etc. so I would like to avoid the usual debate on field fit/crimp fit/just getting the hydraulic shop to do it for me and just see if anyone has successfully made a high quality press on a budget. I did my apprenticeship in a hydraulic shop so I've been around it a bit... I've been looking for a used one for so long now I don't think I'll find a cheap used one here in AUS. So I may as well build one! Looking forward to seeing what ideas/builds other people have come up with!

boslab
07-15-2014, 12:58 AM
Something i thought about too, i have a couple of excavators and a skid steer and hoses pop at the most awkward moment, then i found how much dies were bollocks i thought so i bought a bunch of old hoses, i cut the swage off the blown hose and tig it to the second hand hose end, haven't had a failure since that crippled me. I keep searching ebay to no avail as i would need at least a dozen dies, the skid is Case , and the excavators a Nissan aka Hanix and a JCB, all the threads are different!
Mark

Higgo
07-15-2014, 01:35 AM
That's a good idea! What model Nissan/Hannix is it? I just had to get a gear cut for the final drive in my 3 ton Nissan because I can't find out the model number! think it's an N4 but no one seems to know! Unfortunately most of my hoses are too long to be able to use secondhand ones. I would even consider a manual swager but I suppose it would require too much force! I thought about modifying a cable swager. Available on Ebay pretty cheaply I wonder if the AC hose dies would work on a hydraulic fitting with a bit of modification?

dian
07-15-2014, 04:24 AM
i believe keith fenner has a video, where he demonstrates a unit he buit.

Higgo
07-15-2014, 05:11 AM
I found it! took a while but its nearly exactly what I was looking for! I'm not sure about posting video links on here so please delete this post if its not allowed...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzmO2VI9l6E
Looks pretty much like what I need and well made as well. Might just build a press... the one Keith has made looks unreal and I could certainly use one...
I'd still like to see everyone else's ideas and hose presses please!

justanengineer
07-15-2014, 08:53 AM
You might keep your eyes on the used market here in the US. Dam near every hardware store back in the day had one and there arent many folks with enough use to bother with them so they usually sell for ~$1-200. Considering what fittings and hose cost vs what the hose shops sell complete hoses for, it always seemed a wash to me on cost.

Black Forest
07-15-2014, 10:17 AM
You might keep your eyes on the used market here in the US. Dam near every hardware store back in the day had one and there arent many folks with enough use to bother with them so they usually sell for ~$1-200. Considering what fittings and hose cost vs what the hose shops sell complete hoses for, it always seemed a wash to me on cost.

I think he mentioned that he does not have easy access to a hose shop. Building a press to crimp the fittings is not so expensive. Buying the different dies will take a big bite out of your wallet.

davidh
07-15-2014, 10:40 AM
each manufacturer has its own specs for crimping and fittings. its said to not mix hose mfg's and fittings as each has its own spec. . . I have however done many with no adverse affects.
I have a gates crimper with dies, and in the past they used two piece fittings. other mfg;rs used single piece ones, and when gates changed to single piece ones, new dies were required. yikes. 5 or six different ones, and I still could not do 4 wire hose. it takes a lot of power to squeeze just two wire hose..................................... just sayin'

boslab
07-15-2014, 03:02 PM
That's a good idea! What model Nissan/Hannix is it? I just had to get a gear cut for the final drive in my 3 ton Nissan because I can't find out the model number! think it's an N4 but no one seems to know! Unfortunately most of my hoses are too long to be able to use secondhand ones. I would even consider a manual swager but I suppose it would require too much force! I thought about modifying a cable swager. Available on Ebay pretty cheaply I wonder if the AC hose dies would work on a hydraulic fitting with a bit of modification?
The nissan 3 ton was the N300, N4 are 4 ton machines, they are quite rare now the engine on the 3 ton was a B4, actually a boat engine, there was a N300T too, they came later, i replaced the metal tracks with city tracks after wrecking the road outside my house!
Mark

Higgo
07-15-2014, 10:55 PM
That's an idea...I might try and see if I could get a unit secondhand out of the US. Does anyone have any measurements of their top plates/cones just so I can get an idea? I think any parker/weatherhead/gates unit will be ok... I still like the idea of making my own... its sort of a challenge! If I can find some dimensions or drawings for a specific swager I'll go with the brand of dies that suit it. The reason I ask for the dimensions on here is I think my local (sort of!) hydraulic shops will be hesitant to let me measure their units!

camdigger
07-16-2014, 02:26 AM
Hydraulic hose fitting dies are available for low $ from dis counters like Princess auto and possibly farm supply houses. I suspect they will be the lower rating though.

Be warned though, there is a big different between hose grades. Older Ag equipment uses lower rated hose than construction equipment or newer equipment. The lighter grade hose will quickly blow up if used on a higher rated system.

Higgo
07-16-2014, 05:10 AM
Thanks. I had a look on Princess autos website but couldn't see any... Could you post a link?

Higgo
07-17-2014, 08:11 PM
I found this homemade swager... looks similar to what I want to build. Anyone else built something like this?

http://www.heavyequipmentforums.com/showthread.php?29581-Making-Up-Your-Own-Hydraulic-Hoses

superUnknown
07-17-2014, 08:52 PM
Dies and the bowl are the hard part. You'll aslo need a way to stop the stroke at the correct crimp diameter or you'll quickly find your homemade press is a false economy...
I bought a used aeroquip on Craigslist and a new one from Greenline hose and fitting (they supply Pulsar fittings, the cheap ones at Princess Auto).
If you talk to the your fitting suppliers they will gladly put together a package of assorted fittings along with the crimper. Since each companies fittings and tooling are proprietary and have different crimp requirements they'll cut you a deal just to get you hooked on their fittings...
They might even have a scabby old crimper laying around waiting for a cheapskate to follow home.

Higgo
07-18-2014, 04:19 AM
Thanks for the help. On another forum I've had some help regarding the die bowl and rings. I'm ok with buying them, I'd just prefer to make them (home shop machinist!). Considering they are only an internal taper and a couple of rings!!! I've seen a few sell here for just over $1000AUS... never much cheaper. I only want to crimp 2 sizes of fitting and already have a press to use. It seems a pretty simple project to me. All I need are some dimensions and I can make the parts! I'm not doing this commercially just as a project so I don't really want to put a package together... or buy a used crimper. My machine uses a lot of hoses and I'm also a long way from a hose shop. I figured for the cost of 2 dies and a bit of my time I could put together a little press tool and still be in front of using field fittings I thought I'd be able to make it for the time taken to machine the die bowl, rings, and the cost of the 2 crimping dies I need... around $350AUS I reckon... Anyone feel like taking some measurements? Thanks everyone!

Black Forest
07-21-2014, 01:34 AM
Here is an interesting hose crimper.

http://www.ebay.de/itm/360983417483?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

RussZHC
07-21-2014, 07:23 AM
Not sure if EBay is in the loop of search (ship cost out of North America for such heavy items may make it pointless), anyway, if EBay is being considered take a look for "collets" from the most likely manufacturers of crimpers, dies etc....I have come across really good deals because the seller chose a poor description

camdigger
07-21-2014, 03:40 PM
Thanks. I had a look on Princess autos website but couldn't see any... Could you post a link?

I didn't have any luck on the website. I do know Dad bought a set from them years ago. It is possible they are no longer available. Especially as they offer free while you wait hose end installation.

Higgo
07-28-2014, 02:11 AM
Thanks for looking anyway Camdigger! Hopefully someone can measure their machine for the bowl size and ring size, then I'll be able to machine the bits I need and put it together. Anyone feel like taking some measurements? Come on... I know you want to! thanks everyone.

gambler
07-28-2014, 02:47 PM
I hope you make it and post a thread about it, or an article in the mag. I would like one of those also.

uncle pete
07-28-2014, 05:36 PM
?????? I can literally count on one hand the number of times I've had any hose blow off a hydraulic fitting in almost 40 years. And every single time that happened it was a poor crimp or poor deburring job prior to crimping. To state the obvious, it's totally pointless to try and use cheap hoses or fittings. You'll puke far more money on the ground in hydraulic oil than what top quality hoses and fittings are worth every single time you have one break. The top quality one's will still break, but there lifespan is well worth the added cost's. And yes I can understand the need for your own dies and crimping equipment if your a long way's from the nearest hose shop that has the experience and capability's. But I honestly can't see where your going to save anything at all if you value your time at more than a couple bucks an hour. One mistake on the heat treating on the dies and you'll have those explode in your face. And the exact sizes required are pretty critical to say the least to end up with a properly crimped fitting. I have no real idea about what your equipment is set to operate at. But today 5000 psi is pretty much standard at least with Cat and Hitachi machines. Unless you've got far more experience than you've mentioned this isn't a place for HSM building methods. And if your going through a lot of hydraulic hoses then there's a major problem you haven't found yet. For sure I'd have your pump pressures tested just to start with.

At a guess I'd bet Black Forest either has his own commercially built crimper and dies, or he's using a good local hose shop. I've seen more than enough hoses being assembled that it's not something I'd feel at all comfortable building and then using. You'd even need access to a fairly new set of commercial die's just to get basic measurements. Can you even grind the dies to finished size after the heat treatment? I'm certainly not trying to say any of this is impossible, but there's a hell of a lot more to it than some understand. The commercial equipment has a fairly high price for some damn good reasons.

Pete

mike4
07-28-2014, 06:39 PM
Most of the swagers which do come up for sale here in Australia seem to be in the $3-6k or more range .

That sort of cash will buy a lot of hoses if you are near a hydraulic shop and your machine is nice enough to break a hose in normal business hours .

I have found that breakdowns always happen on weekends or late at night , it then will cost big$ to get someone out if they even will come to site.

I am also looking at purchasing a hose crimping machine or adapting something for my press like Keith Fenner shows in one of his videos.

I also do not like to pay for the name attached to equipment , Parker and others like to charge high dollars just for their name.

Also it is not impossible to make any equipment , some is slightly more difficult , dont let the nay sayers put you off.

I have made several crimp dies for electrical cables and none of them are hardened as it is not always necessary.
Michael

Higgo
07-29-2014, 01:48 AM
That's RIGHT! it;s not hard to make anything really... Just takes a little time! example: I retro fitted and rebuilt a huge lathe for a mining company a couple of years ago... big project but great machine once I had finished it. The company could have gone a bought a brand new Chinese lathe for 3/4 of a million bucks but instead got a Well built 40 ton machine for around 300K. The finance guys were pretty happy with the idea. And it saved a 1950's machine from being scrapped...

"Also I know everyone has different opinions on hose making etc. so I would like to avoid the usual debate on field fit/crimp fit/just getting the hydraulic shop to do it for me and just see if anyone has successfully made a high quality press on a budget."

"I also want to use brand name crimps... the usual names but not really fussed as to what brand. I would like to able to crimp up to 2" or even slightly larger."

Uncle PETE, I thought this would be an interesting project to build and also make my life easier because I don't have access to a local shop... It should save me around 3 or 4k in costs from another shop just to have them come out to my place (about $120p/hr and I think there's about 2 days of work to plumb it not to mention the travel costsof the other guys!) I'm studying Mechatronic Engineering at the moment so if I can avoid outlaying the 3 to 6k for a used crimper it would be great! When I worked as a machinist before I became a technician I used to make this sort of stuff all the time so it's not new to me at all... Maybe I should have explained this a little better.
Just so everyone is clear I should reiterate and say that I DON'T want to make the actual dies themselves, just the die bowl and housing!

Mike4 seems you understand the dilemma I'm in...
Might pay my hose shop a visit and try and con them into letting me measure a few parts of there machine up.
Thanks all.

mike4
07-29-2014, 03:06 AM
Higgo, have a look on Ebay for hydraulic hose crimpersthere is a guy selling new chinese made machines , he may be worth talking to , about dimensions.

Michael

Higgo
07-29-2014, 08:19 AM
Thanks Mike, I had a look at those a while back! I'll ask them and see what they say... If only they were $400 instead of $4000! I've actually got a couple of quotes on the parts I need. I think it totals around $300 for he bowl and rings plus around $130 a die. It's really not too bad. I was just hoping to make the parts as a bit of a project...

Gambler, you can bet I'll post the pics and build blog!