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k2man
09-06-2014, 11:27 AM
I just bought (having it delivered Wednesday) a Bridgeport mill. What would your recommendations be for the "must have" tools to get started. My mill has xyz DRO. I got a vise with it that needs to be repaired. No collets or anything came with it. http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/06/77d8035f2a058b3e3066aa71a004dcfd.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/06/07eb0e9086175e2c928915ccff97c27a.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/06/b036313a551b477959a5bc45bd48d8ec.jpghttp://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/06/48bf02698b39326b7d73fe70bdb3e375.jpg


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Billy Hill
09-06-2014, 11:29 AM
I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest some end mills and drills and some collets to hold said cutting tools. ;)

You'll also need some indicators and probably some clamps.

A.K. Boomer
09-06-2014, 11:47 AM
Look at you!

"Oh, I envy you, Wesley Crusher. You're just at the beginning of the adventure. Go on. Get the water. Stay alive. They'll find you." (Jean-Luc Picard)

You will of course need collets and endmills, you can find bulk varieties of used endmills of all sorts on E-bay for learning on and some can be like new you will just have to read the adds and go through them...

a drill chuck and drills

then you will absolutely need to fix your vise or get a good one new or used, you will need and quill mount dial indicator - mine cost me 12 bucks and works great even after going for a "ride" and 8 years of use, you will need some calipers at least, you will need an edge finder of some kind - that it a very basic start,

then comes the scrotum table (rotary table - we call then scrotum tables where im from - don't know why just local slang around here)

get the rough hang of it then stock up on beer and wine and knock yourself out, going to be a long whorey winter, might as well hunker down and make the best of it...

k2man
09-06-2014, 11:47 AM
Do I need end mill holders or will collets work fine?


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A.K. Boomer
09-06-2014, 11:48 AM
What do you have for a taper? is it R-8?

k2man
09-06-2014, 11:49 AM
Yes R8


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LKeithR
09-06-2014, 11:49 AM
In a somewhat loose order of preference...

Clamp set
End mills
Set of end mill holders (solids)--you can buy these and the end mills as you need them...
Drill chuck
Good selection of drill bits
Edge finder
Dial test indicator
Indicol or similar for holding indicator--you'll end up with lots of different holders for indicators and still find that you don't have exactly what you need...
Vise--two is better than one...
Set of parallels--one for each vise...
Collet holder set
Good flycutter
2" face mill
3"-4" face mill
5C Collet blocks--quick and dirty way to put hexes and flats on smaller shafts...
Spin Indexer
Boring head & boring tools
Angle plate--multiple sizes as you can afford them...
Rotary table--yup, you can even use a couple different sizes here...
Tapping head

This will get you started and you can fill in the gaps as you go...:)

LKeithR
09-06-2014, 11:53 AM
Do I need end mill holders or will collets work fine?

For smaller end mills you can get away with collets but bigger stuff works best in solid holders--the solids won't slip or pull out. Ultimately you'll end up with a good selection of both and know when one is better than the other...

quadrod
09-06-2014, 11:58 AM
While this in not the best of stuff, it will definitely get you off to a start. http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=KN209-9020
Look on this site for enco codes and us a free shipping code. I got the R-8 keyless drill chuck from glycern and have been very happy with it.

burdickjp
09-06-2014, 12:25 PM
Get an ER collet holder and collet set. ER collets can grip a 1mm (0.040") range, so you can use the ER collets to hold both end mills and drill bits. I went ER32 because I have bench top tools, but I bet you could make use of ER40.

john hobdeclipe
09-06-2014, 01:26 PM
Your mill has an "In Motion Quick Change" system in place now. Take it out and set it aside and acquire a selection of R8 accessories. The In Motion system is OK if you do a lot of production work requiring rapid tooling changeovers. But it eats up a lot of vertical space and leaves the business end of the cutting tool a long way away from the spindle bearings.

http://www.auldooly.com/imagehost/P2270207-11.jpg
http://www.auldooly.com/imagehost/P2270203-11.jpg

As seen in the second pic, the system requires a selection of special proprietary tool holders. If you get these with the mill it's something to start with. Otherwise, remove the big yellow adapter just like you would any other R8 tool and set it aside.

RichR
09-06-2014, 02:19 PM
What would your recommendations be for the "must have" tools to get started. My mill has xyz DRO. I got a vise with it that needs to be repaired. No collets or anything came with it.
A gallon of way oil (See your oiling Atlas lathe thread for details).
Some way to hold the work, vise or clamp set.
Cutters and collets to hold them.
6" calipers and 1" micrometer. The micrometer is not "must have", but you'll want it for when you turn something on your lathe.
A piece of material to cut. If you pick a piece steel, make sure it's not hardened. Check that you can file it first.
Those are the "must haves" to get started.
A set of drills and a drill chuck will eventually be needed.
Fly cutters are handy and not overly expensive.

k2man
09-06-2014, 02:25 PM
The in motion quick change doesn't come with the mill, or the 9" extension on the base that is in the pictures. The previous owner is keeping these I'm getting no tools with the machine. I do have some basic stuff - calipers, a set of end mills, full sets of drill bits and a regular do it all master nothing shop full of stuff. So I'll get a set of end mill holders for sure, and a set of collets for whatever.

Thanks for all the suggestions- any others (and what they're used for) are still appreciated!


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Ohio Mike
09-06-2014, 02:31 PM
Minimum would be
short set of R8 collets, you only need the standard ones to hold end mills and straight shank tooling
Vise, preferably a Kurt.
clamp set
set of parallels
pair of 1-2-3 blocks
drill chuck
Indicator to tram the head
Edge finder
V block set
If you happen to already have 5c collets then get the collet block set.

That will get you started.

Additional things you'll find you need as you get into some projects
boring head with boring bars
fly cutter, and some HHS blanks for it
angle block set
Weldon type end mill holders

Get signed up for the monthly sales flyers for MSC, Enco, Travers, etc. Make yourself a wish list and as you find things you'd like to have add them to the list, and as you buy them cross them off. Early on you'll find lots of things you need on sale.

Fasttrack
09-06-2014, 04:01 PM
I hate working with crappy mill vises. Looks to me like you'll be getting a worn out old Bridgeport vise. I say ditch it and get a new one. However, not all vises are made equally! Kurt vises are the defacto standard for quality vises, but you pay for them! I have had good experiences with a brand "Parlec". They were made in Japan or Taiwan, IIRC, but were reasonably nice for the money (about 1/2 the cost of a Kurt). Unfortunately, a little googling shows that Parlec was bought out in 2010 by TE-CO. Looks like Enco has a TE-CO vise exactly like my Parlec. Might be a good vise to start with.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=308-0101&PMPXNO=9200809&PARTPG=INLMK32

Sometimes you can get 20% off or free shipping from Enco (and sometimes if you call, Enco will give you free shipping on freight items... but that may not be the case now that Enco is owned by MSC... :( )

Just because it's fun, here is my short list:

Good vise
Clamp set (this one may serve... IIRC, the Bridgeport is 5/8" t-slot... http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=319-8531&PMPXNO=19511899&PARTPG=INLMK32)
Set of R8 collets
Basic 2-flute and 4-flute centercutting endmills
Parallels
Edge finder (wiggler)
Dial indicator/ DTI for centering and tramming
Drill chuck with R8 stub



...maybe even a co-ax indicator because I love mine but that is for down the road...

SGW
09-06-2014, 04:24 PM
Interesting how different people have different "must have" lists. I'll try one:

Good vise
Good collets: 3/16, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, 3/4
Drill chuck on either a straight shank arbor to hold in a collet, or on an R8 arbor
Drills
Clamp set. One can get by with generic nuts and pieces of threaded rod and random bars of steel, but the convenience of a commercial set of step clamps and studs and nuts is IMO well worth it.
End mills
Edge finder

I'd say that's about the bare minimum. Then you can add a boring head, a rotary table, a rotary base for your vise, a dividing head, ... , as needs demand them.

Old Hat
09-06-2014, 04:51 PM
Wow a T-shirt held by welding rods, that's fresh I'll say!
At least he's got somethin back there.


The BridgePort vise on the foot is garbage, they all were.
The owner may damage the machine removing the riser,
see to it's health (post removal).

Don't use solid endmill holders in excess of 1/2" diameter.......
eccept for plunge-milling.

I don't see the hard-limit stops on the table.
determine the safe ends of travel and affix hard-limits.

quadrod
09-06-2014, 05:04 PM
Also you will find that a cooling system of some kind will do wonders for prolonging tool life, look for a mister of some sorts.

JRouche
09-06-2014, 05:19 PM
then stock up on beer and wine and knock yourself out, going to be a long whorey winter, might as well hunker down and make the best of it...

Hahahahaaaa.. Not in the Keys, where he apparently hangs out :) JR

Old Hat
09-06-2014, 05:23 PM
Hahahahaaaa.. Not in the Keys, where he apparently hangs out :) JR

Down there ya don't sled on snow, ya ...... well you know right?

loose nut
09-06-2014, 05:39 PM
then you will absolutely need to fix your vise or get a good one new or used,
.
+1

If the vise that came with it, as in the picture, is a cheap knock off then as Tiffie says Bin It. An accurate decent vise, doesn't half to be a Kurt, is an absolute must because a cheap crappy one will frustrate you into taking up macrame.

k2man
09-06-2014, 05:58 PM
No snow here! We seldom dip below 55 but occasionally will get in the 40s for a night. Everyone here is wearing Alaskan parkas when it's in the 50s, but we will still have our flip flops on!


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k2man
09-06-2014, 06:00 PM
+1

....a cheap crappy one will frustrate you into taking up macrame.

LMAO! Ok, I'll use the old vise as my spare boat anchor.


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k2man
09-06-2014, 06:08 PM
Wow a T-shirt held by welding rods, that's fresh I'll say!
At least he's got somethin back there.


The BridgePort vise on the foot is garbage, they all were.
The owner may damage the machine removing the riser,
see to it's health (post removal).

Don't use solid endmill holders in excess of 1/2" diameter.......
eccept for plunge-milling.

I don't see the hard-limit stops on the table.
determine the safe ends of travel and affix hard-limits.

By solid endmill holders you mean these?
http://tapatalk.imageshack.com/v2/14/09/06/c44033650f23ac5fa60eabbc607ef6a7.jpg

The T shirt is held on with some magnets - I guess it works!



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Old Hat
09-06-2014, 06:15 PM
Right!
but don't use the bigger ones.
R8 maxes @ 7/8"
You can get those all the way up to 1 1/2" e.m.
which is insane realy.

TN Pat
09-06-2014, 06:27 PM
A set of collets to fit your taper, which is R8. A set of six will do you fine, that's 1/8, 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 5/8, and 3/4. To start, I wouldn't worry about the quality for now. Buying a six-piece set form Little Machine Shop or something will run you around $20 I believe.

A decent 0 to 1/2 drill chuck with an R8 arbor. These can be bought either as one piece or in two pieces. I have the "heavy duty" drill chuck from Little Machine Shop (Harvest brand, apparently), for $25, it's a nice chuck. I use it on a lathe, but still. You would probably be looking at $35 or so for the same chuck and an R8 arbor if LMS sells one. If not, Enco does.

A clamping kit in your flavor of tee slot size. This can augment a milling vise for the time being, but if you can get both, do so. Honestly, a vise would be a better choice.

A milling vise. This you should not skimp on. For a full-size Bridgeport, I would opt for a 6" vise. I personally would look at either a Phase II or, even better, one from Glacern; I can't see buying a Kurt vise being justifiable except for full-blown commercial work. But depending upon the size of the parts you think you will make, a 4" vise may do as well for the time being.

A dial test indicator graduated in .0005". Fowler or SPI brand at least, Mitutoyo or Brown & Sharpe is best. You really can't operate a vertical knee mill without a DTI. You use one for aligning the vise, or for aligning work if it's clamped. In addition, you use it for squaring the mill head to the table.

For that, you need a holder. There are many flavors. The Indicol style, which clamps onto the quill and has several knobs that loosen it, must be an Indicol brand to work well. Cheaper versions like SPI do nothing but slip, even if you use pliers to tighten it. I personally like a universal/single-joint indicator holder which uses a single knob to tighten the entire holder. You can buy them from Noga or cheap import ones, they both work well. Ones that come with a magnetic base, you can make a straight shank for to use in a collet or chuck.

Of course, there is also cutting tools. End mill sets of all types can be had cheaply to start with. Enco regularly sells a set of 20 end mills - from 3/16 to 3/4, 2 and 4 flute, HSS, for I think $90 or so. That's a good value to start out with. You may want to buy some specialty cutters, perhaps a roughing end mill, if budget allows.

In addition to end mills, you need some drills and taps and such most likely. That is left to your needs. I will say though, unless you foresee needing deep holes, I would buy screw machine length drills over jobber.

Lastly is some type of face mill, for surfacing a wide swath. A fly cutter is a single-edge facing tool that can be made very easily at home between a lathe and mill, if you are looking for a nice project. But they can also be bought very cheaply.

A few set-up tools. A decent double-end edge finder goes a long way. A cheap set of 1/8th-inch parallels and perhaps some 1-2-3 and vee blocks. But parallels are a must if you use a vise.

Measurement tools besides a test indicator are up to you. You may only need 6" calipers if you only work +/- .005. Or if you work to .0005, get a mic or set of micrometers.

That's the gist of it. Unless you have a large budget for getting set up, I would buy somewhat cheaper items for the most part. Fowler or SPI or even "import" set-up tools and clamp kit, for example.

PStechPaul
09-06-2014, 06:28 PM
I don't have any experience with the Bridgeport (yet - I will soon, in my machine tool classes). But what I would suggest is looking at lots of videos where the Bridgeport is being used for various milling operations, and observe what tooling is required or recommended. IIRC you are doing mostly small parts, and you might do well to get a set of accessories made for one of the mini-mills, as long as it fits your machine. Little Machine Shop has some pretty good assortments for a starter set:
http://littlemachineshop.com/products/product_view.php?ProductID=1262&category=-74669629

You may want to beware of the clamping kit, however. I posted a thread about them and some people have had the clamping blocks crumble, which could be disastrous.

Also, once your mill is operational, it may be good to make some tooling and/or modify and repair what you have. Good luck. I'm looking forward to using the Bridgeport to see how it compares to my little mill/drill.

john hobdeclipe
09-06-2014, 06:29 PM
Along with all the other good suggestions you are getting, you might consider a wrench and a brass hammer for the drawbar.

And you'll need to round up the proper lube gun to inject your way oil into the proper places.

_Paul_
09-06-2014, 07:13 PM
Minimalist approach:

Set of R8 collets, used Hardinge, Adcock & Shiply, Crawford or Bridgeport
Ebay/Craigs list Slot Drills and End Mills
R8 to ER32/ER40 collet holder and ER32/ER40 collets will let you mount almost any cutter shank size you come across (see above)
R8 Keyless Chuck a used Albrecht 1/2" would be nice if you get used check the jaws are good
Cheap wiggler centre finder
Good quality used vise

Paul

burdickjp
09-06-2014, 07:16 PM
Really: if you grab an ER collet chuck you won't need both a Jacob's chuck and R8 collets. and you'll be able to use your ER collets in other things. It will likely be less collets in the long run.

Old Hat
09-06-2014, 07:29 PM
Beware of third world R8 collet sets.
The threaded thimble that is welded into these collets
is the easy-est place to skimp on.

Keep the packaging untill you varify the 7/16-20 threads in every collet.
They are so far off sometimes they'll ruin a draw-bar in short order.
Other times you can't get the draw-bar to screw into them,
alth'O that is the rarer case.

Lacking a go/no-go gage try a good 7/16-20 tap but use never-seize
just incase it's a tight collet. You wouldn't want a seized tap.

_Paul_
09-06-2014, 08:18 PM
Really: if you grab an ER collet chuck you won't need both a Jacob's chuck and R8 collets. and you'll be able to use your ER collets in other things. It will likely be less collets in the long run.

Lol you will soon tire of changing your ER collet every time you need a different drill size....:rolleyes:

burdickjp
09-06-2014, 09:11 PM
Lol you will soon tire of changing your ER collet every time you need a different drill size....:rolleyes:

I'm in no hurry, but I can't speak for anyone else. Changing ER collets is pretty easy, as well.
To me, the advantages outweigh the time spent.

PixMan
09-06-2014, 09:19 PM
I hate working with crappy mill vises. Looks to me like you'll be getting a worn out old Bridgeport vise. I say ditch it and get a new one. However, not all vises are made equally! Kurt vises are the defacto standard for quality vises, but you pay for them! I have had good experiences with a brand "Parlec". They were made in Japan or Taiwan, IIRC, but were reasonably nice for the money (about 1/2 the cost of a Kurt). Unfortunately, a little googling shows that Parlec was bought out in 2010 by TE-CO. Looks like Enco has a TE-CO vise exactly like my Parlec. Might be a good vise to start with.

http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=308-0101&PMPXNO=9200809&PARTPG=INLMK32

Sometimes you can get 20% off or free shipping from Enco (and sometimes if you call, Enco will give you free shipping on freight items... but that may not be the case now that Enco is owned by MSC... :( )

Just because it's fun, here is my short list:

Good vise
Clamp set (this one may serve... IIRC, the Bridgeport is 5/8" t-slot... http://www.use-enco.com/CGI/INSRIT?PMAKA=319-8531&PMPXNO=19511899&PARTPG=INLMK32)
Set of R8 collets
Basic 2-flute and 4-flute centercutting endmills
Parallels
Edge finder (wiggler)
Dial indicator/ DTI for centering and tramming
Drill chuck with R8 stub



...maybe even a co-ax indicator because I love mine but that is for down the road...

While I agree with you on the vise, I'll say that I very recently bought a set of US-made Teco clamps, studs and T-nuts for LESS money than those Gilbraltar Chinese made ones in the Enco link.

I also prefer a Starrett or Fisher Machine edge finder (3/8" diameter with .100" tip) over an old fashioned wiggler.

Lastly, don't buy the cheapest end mills! The Chinese made starter sets are the worst pieces of crap EVER. Look for good Niagara, Putnam, Bassett, or other known name brands.

k2man
09-07-2014, 12:20 AM
So enco has a TE-CO 6" x 9" opening vise. It is $400! Yikes! Do I really need to spend that much to get a decent vise?


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RichR
09-07-2014, 02:15 AM
Hi k2man
You could try to find a used vise. I got lucky and found one on craigslist. The guy had marked it down to $50 after having it listed for a couple of months
for $100.
http://oi42.tinypic.com/2elukk3.jpg

A.K. Boomer
09-07-2014, 09:15 AM
right - I scored me a kurt 5" for 50 bucks, very rare but perfect for my size table, if you can't afford new get good used you won't regret it even if you have to throw a kit at it it's better than a POS that changes every time you clamp the jaws.

Old Hat
09-07-2014, 12:16 PM
Do I really need to spend that much to get a decent vise?



No, your first project can be to rework the BridgePort vise at the bottom of your pic.
Under the coolant catch bucket.
If you restore the slideing jaw surfaces, and re-work the gibs that's a good start.
You can buy a set of 6" hold-downs off Ebay for working real close,
that will prevent your part kicking up.

If you can't rework the vise you probably wasted your money on the mill.
If you decide to tackle the vise post it.
I'll walk you thru it. Or several others here could as well.

burdickjp
09-07-2014, 12:18 PM
Screwless vises can be had inexpensively. They're not awesome, but they can get the job done until you can afford a more awesome vise, and are useful for some things afterward.

k2man
09-07-2014, 12:18 PM
I looked up replacement parts for a 6" Kurt vise. $121 just for the stationary jaw! How much would I have in this vise when I'm done?


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A.K. Boomer
09-07-2014, 12:42 PM
I was just talking about the thrust washer kit and stuff, if the vise needs a new stationary jaw don't buy it...

my vise just needed a disassemble and cleaning... I took a chance did not even see it in person and got it on e-bay and got lucky...

k2man
09-07-2014, 03:39 PM
There are some used Kurt's on eBay now. But looking at a few pictures, how do you know that the jaws are ok, and there's not other major parts that are bad?


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A.K. Boomer
09-07-2014, 03:52 PM
you really don't and shippings to expensive to make a mistake, I got lucky.


RichR has got the right idea, try to find a semi-local one on CL and check it out in person first...

Old Hat
09-07-2014, 04:14 PM
Just by this and be done with it!
8" bugget friendly.
Great pics,,,, I can see some bacteria in one pic.
And it's green for the environment.
What more do you need huh?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/milling-machine-vise-8-Jaws-6-capacity-/261579173865?pt=BI_Tool_Work_Holding&hash=item3ce7556fe9
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTE5NVgxNjAw/z/lS8AAOSwEK9T9J66/$_57.JPG

And you can mount it on the X axis, which is also a good thing!

Cheers!
Phil

PStechPaul
09-07-2014, 05:35 PM
There was a thread in the MEM forum (http://www.modelenginemaker.com/index.php?topic=3923.msg71996#msg71996) that showed a Brown and Sharpe Precision Milling Vise:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/BROWN-amp-SHARPE-22-PRECISION-MILLING-VISE-/151364684450

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/OTgwWDYwNw==/z/qisAAOSwQItTzA0A/$_57.JPG

I also showed a vise I got at a flea market for a few dollars in similar condition:

http://enginuitysystems.com/pix/Palmgren_Vise_1_800p.png

Someone remarked that it must be Swiss made, from Swiss cheese.

Someone else said it must be Austrian - it's an Edel-Vise!

Ohio Mike
09-07-2014, 05:46 PM
I did forget what quickly becomes the most handy tool. The 3/4" & 7/8" double box end wrench. The 3/4" end fits all the adjustment points and the drawbar on the Bridgeport and the 7/8" end fits the clamping hardware. Every mill should have a dedicated wrench.

Spin Doctor
09-07-2014, 07:59 PM
1) Vise
2) Parallels
3) Clamps ( can be made yourself)
4) Stud Set (threaded rod works but better steel works better)
5) Edge Finder or Wiggler
6) Boring Head
7) Angle Blocks
8) Angle Plate (solid and adjustable)
9) Indexer of some sort
10) Face Mill or Fly Cutter
11) Mill Stop
I am assuming collets, drill chuck, cutters. The above is pretty basic. A lot of it can be made yourself. Plus specialized fixtures for certain jobs when they come up

PixMan
09-07-2014, 08:24 PM
I looked up replacement parts for a 6" Kurt vise. $121 just for the stationary jaw! How much would I have in this vise when I'm done?


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Are you referring to the main stationary block that holds the hardened replaceable vise jaws, or the jaws themselves? I replaced the (missing) hard jaws on my Kurt D675 for $30 from KBC Tools.

Tundra Twin Track
09-07-2014, 08:30 PM
Annular cutters the ones for mag drill,can hold in 3/4'' endmill holder I use a coolant through holder for mine.They are expensive but make nice hole have 7/16 to 2 1/2 would like to get up to 4''.

RichR
09-07-2014, 10:05 PM
Hi k2man

you really don't and shippings to expensive to make a mistake, I got lucky.


RichR has got the right idea, try to find a semi-local one on CL and check it out in person first...

You really want to see the vise first hand before buying, pictures don't tell the whole story. I nearly didn't go to check that vise out. The pictures the guy posted
made it look dry, rusty, and decrepit. When I got there, I saw it was just oily and dirty. The screw turned freely just using my fingers. He even had the handle
for tightening it, some of the used vises have them missing. Gave the guy $50 and ran.

Billy Hill
09-08-2014, 07:18 PM
I think OP will find what most of the rest of us have found... After you've got a way to hold your first part and some tooling to cut it with, necessity and the occasional tool gloat-worthy score may be two of the most common drivers for what you buy for your new toy.

Heck, some of it you will probably even make yourself (indicator holders, clamps etc) which will drive you to buy items you will need to help make those.

Then you'll have those new toys and will come up with something else to make with them so you can somehow 'justify' having them, then you'll find that you need to buy MORE stuff to finish that part.

And the tooling tunnel of love continues until you die and your family is left getting rid of all the junk you've collected over the years.

Of course, most of it will have only been used once or twice, (if that) then tossed in the box to sold to some kid that just got his first mill and next thing you know he'll be here posting about his new tool gloat.

A.K. Boomer
09-09-2014, 12:17 AM
thanks Billy, ok - now im depressed..

Prokop
09-09-2014, 07:02 AM
I think OP will find what most of the rest of us have found... After you've got a way to hold your first part and some tooling to cut it with, necessity and the occasional tool gloat-worthy score may be two of the most common drivers for what you buy for your new toy.

Heck, some of it you will probably even make yourself (indicator holders, clamps etc) which will drive you to buy items you will need to help make those.

Then you'll have those new toys and will come up with something else to make with them so you can somehow 'justify' having them, then you'll find that you need to buy MORE stuff to finish that part.

And the tooling tunnel of love continues until you die and your family is left getting rid of all the junk you've collected over the years.

Of course, most of it will have only been used once or twice, (if that) then tossed in the box to sold to some kid that just got his first mill and next thing you know he'll be here posting about his new tool gloat.

Isn't it like that with everything? Tools, motorcycles, jeeps, guns - you name it. Brakes my heart when I see stuff in Trash to Treasure area of the county landfill - stuff some handyman cared for and collected and used and now it is just junk from grandpa we need to get rid off.

Billy Hill
09-09-2014, 05:54 PM
Sorry Boomer.


Isn't it like that with everything? Tools, motorcycles, jeeps, guns - you name it.

Must be a machinist thing. Those are most of my favorite things.


Brakes my heart when I see stuff in Trash to Treasure area of the county landfill - stuff some handyman cared for and collected and used and now it is just junk from grandpa we need to get rid off.

I think you're right. When I look in my shop at all the crap I got I feel sorry for my kids who will have to go through it when I Joan Rivers (too soon?) Hopefully by then they'll be interested in the trade enough to keep/use some of it. If not mayhaps some n00b will pick it up and start a new career with it.

justanengineer
09-09-2014, 11:52 PM
Realistically, tooling can either be bought or made. In the OP's case it sounds like buying would yield better quality, making it himself however keeps cost low while teaching skill, much as would be gained during an apprenticeship. To each their own, only the OP can make the buy/make decision for each item.

Personally, I'd fix and use the current vise until youve got a basic selection of measuring tools, end mills, collets, drills, drill chuck, and have completed a basic project or two to determine its limitations. I'd suggest getting started by making your own parallels, clamps, and a fly cutter or two. Do your best to get a good surface finish but dont worry much bc theyre not ground surfaces, focus on getting things square, straight, round, and on-size instead.

k2man
09-12-2014, 09:31 PM
Ok, thanks everyone! And I plan to live for another 71 years (shooting for 130) so I hope to get lots of use out of it. I'll also be able to tell lots of "well,...back in the day ..." stories of how I made so much stuff with my old iron machines...

I have been busy making room in my shop, buying tons of tooling and scrap aluminum, and building a new table for my also newly acquired lathe.

I did get a Kurt D60 vise that looks in good shape to me. I'm not sure how to check it - besides it turns easily from completely open to closed. The screw does look funny - like it has a plastic coating over it - but it doesn't seem to affect moving the jaw, and I can't see how it would move out of the way. http://img.tapatalk.com/d/14/09/13/6a6ameju.jpg


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A.K. Boomer
09-12-2014, 10:00 PM
Wow - might be some kind of chip protector --- put two pieces of sticky note paper on each side of the jaws as far out as possible without the stickyness,,, now - move the jaw close and snug with your pinky,,, now - try to remove both papers, if they both rip before coming out you got a nice un-tweeked frame...

k2man
09-12-2014, 10:49 PM
Thanks A K Boomer! That sounds great. I'll try that in the morning.


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PixMan
09-13-2014, 01:05 AM
There's probably just a thick coating of coagulated coolant on the screw if it came from a machine with a flood coolant system. I've never seen any kind of coating on those screws from Kurt, and I've seen a good many new ones over the years. The tracks you see that are about the same pitch as the threads on the screw may be caused my chips lodged in the "nut" that drives the sliding jaw.

Strange, but there seems to be some variation in the parts list and assembly of Kurt vises as they developed the D60 into the D675. I have one of each and when I bought the rebuild (I'd call it a "refurbish) kit for my D675 it came with a grease fitting and disk for the fitting to screw into, yet there wasn't one on the vise and no counterbore where one would press in the disk & fitting.

The rebuild kit is sitting on top of my D60 and if I can find time this weekend I'll let you know if it has the same "brush seal" as the D675. The kit doesn't come with one, so I assume it doesn't have one, but given the situation with my D675, anything is possible.

If you wish to inspect and clean yours, it really easy disassembly. Remove the hard (or soft) jaws, flip it over and remove the 1/2-13 SHCS holding the main solid jaw and remove that. Flip it back over, remove the central set screw from the rear of the moving jaw. Now you can lift the moving jaw off, being careful not to lose the 1/2 ball that may fall out of it. Now you can unscrew the moving jaw actuator, sliding it out the "front" where the solid jaw was. Last thing is to remove the spiral retaining ring so you can slide that out along with the thrust bearing. Most of these vises don't really need a rebuild so much as they just need a thorough cleaning.

k2man
09-13-2014, 09:40 PM
Thanks PixMan, I'll definitely take mine apart and clean it.

I did to a paper test on the vise - cut some 1/2" strips of paper that measured .005" thick. Closed the vise on them. The left side grabbed the paper first. If I put two layers of paper in the right side, it would grip these before it would grip one paper on the left side. I didn't tighten the vise very hard though.

I also opened the vise up almost fully open. I clamped a couple of pieces of aluminum pretty tight. Seemed fine. I was thinking the screw threads may be worn down. It is strange that the "coating" on the threads looks totally undisturbed by opening the vise to full open.


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justanengineer
09-14-2014, 01:01 AM
The screw does look funny - like it has a plastic coating over it - but it doesn't seem to affect moving the jaw, and I can't see how it would move out of the way.

When you tear it apart you'll realize thats not the functional portion of the thread, its actually a smaller diameter. The threaded portion of the screw is only ~2" long. One of the major selling points of Kurts and Kurt clones is that none of the threads are exposed where chips can easily fall on them.

Needless to say Kurt support is excellent both in parts and free manuals on their website.

http://www.kurtworkholding.com/images/2011/Vise%20Screw%20DSeries.jpg

http://www.kurtworkholding.com/downloads/guides/D-Series_Screw_Installation.pdf

PixMan
09-14-2014, 07:45 PM
I took apart my D60 which has been sitting unused in my shop for a few months with the D60-Repair Kit next to it. I've got a freshly refurbished D675 on my milling machine so this is only needed for work which needs double vises. Rare day I need that.

Anyhow, here's some of the disassembly steps, in photos:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2428-r_zpse1a01f93.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2431-r_zps657a2f7e.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2433-r_zpsa5978641.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2434-r_zps17b38528.jpg

More to follow.

PixMan
09-14-2014, 07:58 PM
This is the moving jaw "nut", out and in need of cleaning. You can see the rust under the moving jaw block itself, and in the last photo above you can see the "build up" of corrosion from this and 3 other Kurt vises (of which I got two) that have sat on a shelf unused for at least 4 years. I'm NOT going to grind things flat and shiny, nor strip and paint it. It's find for the use I'll give it with just a thorough cleaning and stoning of all surfaces.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2435-r_zps1d930711.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2436-r_zpsa0595c0c.jpg


And all back together, moving smoothly and snug. I will buy new hard jaws for it soon.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v466/kenm10759/Dads%20shop/IMG_2438-r_zpsc501001f.jpg

I will say it is built differently than a D675 in that the D675 has "integral" keys milled from the solid main jaw, the D60 uses a 6" long separate key with mating keyways milled into both the solid jaw and the vise body. The main screw uses a threaded collar with locking set screw for tensioning the thrust bearing of the screw. A D675 uses spiral snap ring in a circlip groove on the screw shank. I could find no evidence that the screw ever had any kind of coating on it, though the vise clearly had a good coagulated layer of rank coolant everywhere.

PStechPaul
09-14-2014, 08:12 PM
So the threaded end has about 10 threads which engage with perhaps 100 in the movable "underjaw"? I notice that the end of this piece is angled such that the pressure of the screw tends to pull the movable jaw down against the flat bed of the vise, which should counteract the tendency to ride up as I noticed with my (cheap) milling vise. I may see if I can incorporate something similar in my rotary table jaw accessory. I'll play around with the idea and make a CAD model and add it to my existing thread or make a new one. It would need to be bidirectional if the jaws are used for internal gripping, and I think I know how to accomplish that as well. :cool:

Thanks for the detailed pictures. It may be good to move them to a new thread on milling vise repair. ;)

k2man
09-19-2014, 12:21 AM
Excellent photos and good info. Thanks justanengineer and PixMan


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