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Jon Heron
09-24-2014, 08:17 AM
I saw a pretty good show on the boob tube last night about the history of power that I am sure some on here would enjoy.
At around the 15 minute mark he starts talking about steam power and shows some very interesting old steam technologt.
I found it on youtube so here is the link:
Can we have unlimited power?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqMDbuwQrw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=buqMDbuwQrw
Cheers,
Jon

Weston Bye
09-24-2014, 10:58 AM
Can we have unlimited power?

Not likely. Even as we speak, many countries are reducing power generation by shutting down nuclear and coal fired plants, and greenies are carping about gas fired plants (carbon dioxide) and hydroelectric (fish grinders). That leaves the inconstant solar and wind, and even those have to contend with NIMBY's.

Steam power is somewhat of a misnomer, as steam is the conversion medium rather than the power source. Soooo, those plug-in electric cars on the road are, in some cases, essentially coal burners.

History of power indeed. Power may become only a fond memory of history.

Jon Heron
09-24-2014, 04:14 PM
Soooo, those plug-in electric cars on the road are, in some cases, essentially coal burners.
Indeed!
This whole "green electric car" thing is a complete farce. Not only are they charged from the grid which is powered predominantly with nukes, coal, and LNG as the main sources, the heavy metals and chemicals used in the manufacture of the battery's and cars are major pollution concerns in their manufacture and in there disposal.
Besides that there is also the upgraded infrastructure needed to provide the power points for charging them, if anybody ever looked at the big picture we would not see so many of these electric cars coming to Ontario...
Solar and wind dont have a snowballs chance in hell of ever providing even a minute fraction the power that we need to power our homes and industry...
Cheers,
Jon

aostling
09-24-2014, 05:07 PM
This whole "green electric car" thing is a complete farce.

That depends on locale. My brother owns a Tesla, and lives in Norway where 98% of the power comes from hydro.

dp
09-24-2014, 05:26 PM
30% of India has no electricity at all (by population). India has a population of 1.25bn vs Norway's 5 million. All the energy generated in Norway would not make a dent in the discomfort and poverty of rural India.

In many parts of Africa there is very little electricity. The greens wish to keep it that way and are fighting fossil fuel generation in favor of more expensive and far less reliable solar and wind, and very expensive renewable energy (incredibly, hydro is not considered a renewable). It won't scale and is unaffordable to the poor African nations anyway, and those policies will make them wards of the UN and tinpot dictators forever. Nobody deserves to be deprived of what the decision-making elite take for granted.

topct
09-24-2014, 06:13 PM
Oh my! I will only say follow the lies, follow the money, and really look at all the directions all those are coming from. Then and only then consider the word "agenda".

And also when you do, do so from your own heart. The right answers will only come from there. No where, and especially from, no one else.

You can get a parrot to say anything.

dp
09-24-2014, 06:19 PM
At exactly 21:00 minutes into the video the presenter says pretty much the same thing about money. Aside from the global political side of modern energy it was a very interesting video. I didn't know the old power plant was still intact at Niagara. That would be an interesting museum.

brian Rupnow
09-24-2014, 08:05 PM
Jon--I really enjoyed that movie. Thank you very much for posting the link. There are a couple of really good shots of line shaft industrial factories in there.

Mike Nash
09-24-2014, 08:53 PM
The video was interesting up until I started wondering how many gullible people think all of those sound effects and visuals are for real. It is hard enough to unlearn the crap they teach in public schools (since kids aren't smart enough to learn real science they are fed pseudoscience and then expected to unlearn it in later years) without this kind of crap.

If you are going to lie at all, I am not willing to believe anything you say.

But hey! Those torpedo fish swimming around glowing and going bzzt, bzzt are really cool!

Doozer
09-24-2014, 09:31 PM
http://i72.photobucket.com/albums/i169/kooldoozer/Machines%20and%20Stuff/SDC11477_zps20c63e73.jpg

Lew Hartswick
09-25-2014, 08:27 AM
If you are going to lie at all, I am not willing to believe anything you say.
!

Absolutely! That is one of the first criteria I use when examining any "dissertation". :-)
...lew...

Jon Heron
09-25-2014, 08:47 AM
The video was interesting up until I started wondering how many gullible people think all of those sound effects and visuals are for real. It is hard enough to unlearn the crap they teach in public schools (since kids aren't smart enough to learn real science they are fed pseudoscience and then expected to unlearn it in later years) without this kind of crap.

If you are going to lie at all, I am not willing to believe anything you say.

But hey! Those torpedo fish swimming around glowing and going bzzt, bzzt are really cool!
I must have missed something, I am not sure what your talking about? What lie?
Cheers,
Jon

AD5MB
09-25-2014, 09:16 AM
Solar and wind dont have a snowballs chance in hell of ever providing even a minute fraction the power that we need to power our homes and industry...
Cheers,
Jon

a very long time ago Mother Earth News published an editorial that said that solar power can never work. for political reasons, not for technological reasons. it won't work because everybody thinks in terms of tying it into the grid, and the grid has more political power when it's bigger, and the grid will think in terms of vast solar power plants that rely on economy of scale. which is incompatible with solar power

solar power will only work on a personal or neighborhood scale. but that does not concentrate political power and money, so people who rely on concentration of political power and money will always oppose it. and since they have political power and money...

we're back to the golden rule: he who hyas the gold makes the rules.

A.K. Boomer
09-25-2014, 09:33 AM
I enjoyed much of the show, but I think it's going to give some the wrong idea.

can just see Daryl keeping hundreds of eels in a tank in his basement and somehow trying to milk the energies off of them,

The system would not have to rely on either wind nor sun, trouble being is if you want cold beer you have to run downstairs every 15 minutes and start poking them with a stick...

danlb
09-25-2014, 02:27 PM
The video was interesting up until I started wondering how many gullible people think all of those sound effects and visuals are for real.
[snip ]
If you are going to lie at all, I am not willing to believe anything you say.



I agree with the sentiment. An article or documentary looses all credibility when I see a blatant misrepresentation of fact in a field that I've studied.

BUT....

Sound effects are often needed when taping. Without sound effects you often end up with nothing but a moderator's voice. When I was videoed for an in-house educational piece the entire dialog had to be dubbed in later. The buzz of the industrial UPS and the whine of 500 first generation 1GB drives overpowered the high priced directional microphones. :)

A lot of the footage you see in a documentary is actually stock footage that may or may not have a soundtrack. If there is a soundtrack, it might or might not be appropriate to the documentary.

I did not watch the whole video, but I liked the part where they attributed the increased efficiency of the windmills to more efficient teeth in the gear train.

Dan

The Artful Bodger
09-25-2014, 05:35 PM
My grandfather operated a gravel extraction and road building business entirely on solar power.

kc5ezc
09-25-2014, 05:54 PM
a very long time ago Mother Earth News published an editorial.
Hey, good idea. Do you happen to have a year or issue number of when it was published?
I have all the OLD mother earth news issues up until they were sold and my "lifetime" subscription
went in the toilet. I'd like to read the piece.
Thanks Danny.

MrSleepy
09-25-2014, 07:05 PM
As a BBC4 4 production.. it does have the normal, liberal, socially unifying sunnyness one would expect from aunty...But Dr Michael Moseley is very well respected.

It does lack the Alien and/or Nazi aspects every History channel production now seems to contain.
eg..
Tesla was obviously an alien..who stranded on a primitive earth..had to advance society and science to a point where he could mend his ship and return home. (Doctor who may have done this one already though)

And I cant imagine how "out there" the Fox version would be :).

FWIW ... I watched this on the beeb originally ..and I think this is pt1 of a 3 part series.

Rob