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View Full Version : Who made this combo bullnose wood plane?



J Tiers
10-07-2014, 11:52 PM
Picked this up because it looked interesting and useful for some woodbutchering projects. Figured I could look it up to find out what it was supposed to have, and what those did.. But I only find some similar things, not this one. Umpteen pictures on teh net, and not a one I find of this piece.

It's a combination plane of some sort, has a bullnose portion, and regular, has a guide on one side, a rod for another (missing) guide, and a spur setup. Blade is extended to be flush on the spur side.

Not a manufacturer's name on it anywhere. It's fairly obviously a cheapie version, but none the worse for that. Probably common as dirt, as such planes go, but I found no info with several different searches.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/old%20tools/woodcomboplane1_zps603c9296.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/old%20tools/woodcomboplane1_zps603c9296.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/old%20tools/woodcomboplane2_zpsd4cd3aba.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/old%20tools/woodcomboplane2_zpsd4cd3aba.jpg.html)

oldtiffie
10-08-2014, 12:31 AM
It is a rebating plane. Possibly made by Stanley UK.

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=rebate+plane&biw=1920&bih=845&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=rr00VJDgPM7M8gX83YGwBg&sqi=2&ved=0CBwQsAQ

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=rebate+plane

J Tiers
10-08-2014, 12:46 AM
More specifically, a "door rabbet plane" (or door REBATE plane). An ordinary rabbet plane does not, I believe, have the bullnose second position for the blade. Found that out from searching.

But, almost 100% certainty it is no Stanley product. They pretty much never failed to have their name on their products, cast right in. This one is supposed to look like Stanley, though, no doubt.

Paul Alciatore
10-08-2014, 12:54 AM
Rebate Plane = Rabbit Plane. For those of you who are as ill informed as I was.


E-Bay seems to have a number of fences for them.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_sop=16&_nkw=stanley+78+fence&_frs=1

Gary Paine
10-08-2014, 01:19 AM
Hey, a question right up my alley. If it had been made by Stanley, it would carry the number 78. It is a duplex, Rabbet & Filletster plane. It has two cutter seats, an adjustable fence, rod, depth stop, and spur. Stanley made their version until 1984. Yours was made by Sargent and Company. That can be determined by the washer shaped spur rather than the three lobed version Stanley used. Because yours is not marked Sargent, and it would have been in large bold script, it was made by them to sell through one of the large retailers like Montgomery Wards or such.
Polish the top of the cutter a bit and it should have a name on it.

Joe Rogers
10-08-2014, 06:00 AM
Agree that it looks like a Sargent design.The little boss on the front end is a tell.
Joe

Tony Ennis
10-08-2014, 07:21 AM
I use a Stanley version. They are a pleasure.

J Tiers
10-08-2014, 08:10 AM
Ah, thank you.

The blade doesn't seem to have a name, it isn't at all rusty, so it's pretty clean I'll have to check again, though. I figured it was a "made-for" because I saw nearly identical ones with numbers and names (unreadable) cast in them, as I searched google images.

I know about rabbet planes, but never heard of a fillester plane. Looking them up, I see it is nearly like a Kunz, and a Montgomery Ward is basically the same thing down to the "made in USA cast in.

It turns out I have a homeless "stop" that may well fit it. I'll have to check that too, if I can find it.

tlfamm
10-08-2014, 08:20 AM
Either because form follows function, or the patents have run out, many combo rabbit planes look like cousins - my modern (25 yr old) Record included.

A Record specimen: http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/121425801067?lpid=82

And note the "Faithful" example - no cousin, but an outright clone.

J Tiers
10-14-2014, 08:43 PM
The stop does fit, although it is a tad short of laying against the bottom of the plane as it probably ought to.

But it does fit the odd 7mm diameter (about 0.275) support rod.

Something may be odd, since the support rod is not a solid fit. It does screw into the 1/4-24 thread OK, which does not seem to be 0.236 (6mm) since my 1/4-24 tap fits the hole. But it does not solidly bottom on the plane body. I suspect the stop rod was larger and had a much better "seat" originally. A 0.275 OD and a 1/4-24 threaded hole are way too close in size. Possibly it was 0.312 or 0.375 originally, and this is something kludged-on by a previous owner, potentially to fit a stop which was similar to the one I found.

Easily fixed, and I might even bore the stop off-center to fit better against the sole of the plane.

BTW, the blade says "Craftsman", although I do not think the plane was a Sears Craftsman tool. In my experience, they ALWAYS put the "Craftsman" brand name on the main part of the tool, and this one does not have it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/old%20tools/woodcomboplane3_zpsdf2ee90c.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/old%20tools/woodcomboplane3_zpsdf2ee90c.jpg.html)

Tony Ennis
10-14-2014, 10:54 PM
Nitpick - that blue-gray piece you added is the fence. The depth stop is on the other side of the plane.

J Tiers
10-15-2014, 08:23 AM
Agreed.

The whole thing is fairly crude, but usable. Setting with good accuracy would need some work with the parts to smooth out the surfaces for the screws, and a blade screw plus angle adjustment lever would have been good too. This was obviously at the very cheapest end of the scale of tool types.

bruto
10-15-2014, 06:32 PM
I don't know who made it, and I'm pretty sure it was not Stanley of any country, but I have one just like it. It's even the same color of gray. I have never figured out either who made it. I don't use it either, because I actually have a couple of Stanleys which work better. The British Stanley, at least the one I got back in the 1970's, had the name cast in, as do the US ones.

J Tiers
10-15-2014, 08:37 PM
The idea of a Sargent, made perhaps for Wards, makes sense. (or in the case of these cheapies, maybe someplace lesser... Woolworth? The 5 and dime?.)

Bruto: Does yours have the "fence"? If so, do you have a picture handy?

cameron
10-15-2014, 10:14 PM
If you make the fence sit tight against the bottom, you can't advance the iron to make a cut.

Tony Ennis
10-15-2014, 10:21 PM
The fence on mine has a relieved area for the blade.

mikem
10-15-2014, 10:22 PM
It is a craftsman....I have one just like it and several Stanley 78's. It would probably have been more expensive to change the mold to add the Craftsman logo. Unless someone can correct me on that!

J Tiers
10-15-2014, 11:19 PM
The fence on mine has a relieved area for the blade.

And the fence I have is relieved except for 3 pads none of which are near the blade. Without the pads against the sole, the fence will twist and turn and be pretty much useless. if it had been made with 2 rods, then it would be fine standing off the sole.

If this was Sears, it should have been a "Dunlap" brand and not Craftsman.

Tony Ennis
10-16-2014, 07:49 AM
The fence is almost always positioned under the sole since there isn't a lot of call for 1.25" wide rabbets. Check to see if there is a 'nicker clover' in front of the depth stop. Rotate a nicker into position before cutting a cross-grain rabbet. That plane should be a pleasure to use, Jerry.

J Tiers
10-16-2014, 08:10 AM
Yes. it has a spur for a clean edge. Is that what you mean by a 'nicker"? The spur is pretty much under the depth stop, as you can see in the original pics above.

And "off the sole" means in this case, *not* out to the side, like some of the real combo planes, but rather that the fence is not touching the sole, is standing out an eighth of an inch or so below it and not being stable, rocking and loosening the rod.

It's reasonably easy to use this one although the angles are such that even with the grain, using a sharp blade, the thing is not super easy to use. I don't know how it would work cross-grain. It tends to not cut unless the blade is out a fair distance, and then there is a very narrow range before it is out too far.

One could wish the horn on the nose was larger. I found that my left hand was on that a lot when using the plane. I had touched up the blade and I know it is sharp. Still, it is a lot nicer to use than marking with a chisel and shoveling out to the mark.

I am going to make a larger diameter rod, and bore out the fence to fit, moving the hole to put the fence closer to the sole at the same time.

Not bad for $5, especially when I found I already had a fence to fit it.

bruto
10-16-2014, 07:06 PM
The idea of a Sargent, made perhaps for Wards, makes sense. (or in the case of these cheapies, maybe someplace lesser... Woolworth? The 5 and dime?.)

Bruto: Does yours have the "fence"? If so, do you have a picture handy?Mine does not have the fence, the depth gauge the iron or the cap. It's just the casting, which as I recall I got free or nearly so long long ago. Back in about 1972, I needed a rabbet plane to fit an odd sized door into a frame, so I went to the local Montgomery Wards store, where after a bit of misdirection and joking about ordering rabbits, I ordered and received a brand new British Stanley for $12, which is still nice and sharp. I never got around to doing anything with the clone. I think it's still sitting on a shelf in my shop, but I confess I have not looked. I'll try to find it, and see what, if anything, in my collection of bits and pieces and fences and whatnot might fit it.

e.t.a. this plane will work across the grain a bit better than you'd think, if it's sharp. Note that it has a cutter built into the side, to provide a sharp edge to the rabbet. That, if sharp, will cut across grain.

Tony Ennis
10-16-2014, 07:27 PM
http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/tony_ennis/Stanley%20No78/CAM00108.jpg (http://s985.photobucket.com/user/tony_ennis/media/Stanley%20No78/CAM00108.jpg.html)

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/tony_ennis/Stanley%20No78/CAM00107.jpg (http://s985.photobucket.com/user/tony_ennis/media/Stanley%20No78/CAM00107.jpg.html)

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/tony_ennis/Stanley%20No78/CAM00106.jpg (http://s985.photobucket.com/user/tony_ennis/media/Stanley%20No78/CAM00106.jpg.html)

http://i985.photobucket.com/albums/ae339/tony_ennis/Stanley%20No78/CAM00105.jpg (http://s985.photobucket.com/user/tony_ennis/media/Stanley%20No78/CAM00105.jpg.html)

My 78's fence is in contact with the sole. The fence can be moved to the right side, too. The rod upon which the fence mounts has a 28tpi thread. And Jerry is right in that the spur/nicker is under the depth stop.

J Tiers
10-16-2014, 10:51 PM
That fence looks pretty darn familiar... even though there are not that many ways to make one. Does it fit a 0.280 dia rod?

Also, what's teh lever under the rear blade position?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/old%20tools/woodcomboplane5_zpsd2766a17.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/old%20tools/woodcomboplane5_zpsd2766a17.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/old%20tools/woodcomboplane4_zps13356cdb.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/old%20tools/woodcomboplane4_zps13356cdb.jpg.html)

Tony Ennis
10-16-2014, 11:20 PM
Yep, the rod on mine measures .281 using my guess-o-meter, err I mean my dial caliper. The fit of the fence on the rod is very good.

The lever is a fine adjustment for the blade. Planes with this lever accept a blade that has a number of slots milled into the back. They run perpendicular to the blade's long axis. The lever has a finger that fits into the teeth. Once the blade is loosened, it's easy to move the lever by a small amount to change the bite the blade will take.

J Tiers
10-16-2014, 11:22 PM
Oh OK... I have seen that feature, and it is quite handy and nice.....

Thanks

bruto
10-17-2014, 01:02 AM
I think the only reason for having the fence contact the sole of the plane is to take out any spring that might make it hard to adjust finely, and to prevent it from rocking and loosening the post. If you have a fence that fits but doesn't meet the sole you could probably just put a couple of setscrews into it to steady it, but it may not even need that, and I would not be surprised if a knockoff of the 78 had a different fence design.

Note that in the proper 78, there's a notch in the fence to clear the blade, and when you put the fence on the right, it goes behind the blade instead of in front, so that the notch remains under the blade. Make sure any home made or fitted fence clears the blade.

J Tiers
10-17-2014, 09:31 PM
The one I have does have reliefs to clear any sensible blade extension. In between the shiny areas it is relieved at least 0.060 or 0.080.