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doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 12:25 PM
I have a harbor fail 1" electronic micrometer, and a 1" lufkin. I got the lufkin basically free. But I'm selling my sherline lathe, and I'd like to include the lufkin to sweeten the deal.

I just want to make sure there is no reason I would want to keep two 1" micrometers. Besides backup/redundancy. Is there some special thing you can do with two micrometers of the same size? Some kind of differential measurement or who knows what?

HELP!!!!!!!!!!()*@(!*@)!(*@)!

http://i242.photobucket.com/albums/ff197/acannell/20141012_092324_zpshgw3bvic.jpg (http://s242.photobucket.com/user/acannell/media/20141012_092324_zpshgw3bvic.jpg.html)

John Stevenson
10-12-2014, 12:29 PM
G clamps often come in pairs......................

achtanelion
10-12-2014, 12:36 PM
Well, a man with one watch always knows what time it is, and a man with 2 is never sure. Do you know which is more accurate over the range?

Bob Fisher
10-12-2014, 12:38 PM
Keep the Lufkin, toss the electronic in with the lathe. The Lufkin will not need new batteries just when you need it. It is probably more accurate as well. Bob.

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 12:38 PM
Well, a man with one watch always knows what time it is, and a man with 2 is never sure. Do you know which is more accurate over the range?

I really hope its the harbor fart one..the lufkin doesnt even read tenths and its probably 70 years old...but I dont have any thing precise enough to prove it either way..one things for sure, id rather use the HF one because its brand new and it reads much finer than the lufkin..

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 12:41 PM
Keep the Lufkin, toss the electronic in with the lathe. The Lufkin will not need new batteries just when you need it. It is probably more accurate as well. Bob.


Nah...




"This should be obvious. I also know what is pretty much required when it comes to showing your inspection tools to your clients - but.. I needed a new pair of micrometers to help me measure taper in my lathe. I'm low on cash right now (bought CNC lathe, ancilliary equipment, tooling, starrett machinist's level, etc.) and need to keep the spend low. So, after looking at the mitutoyo's that I actually want for about $280 at grainger, I went and bought the $35 pittsburgh digital micrometer with a 20% off coupon at harbor freight and made my measurements.

At my 'real' job / day job we have tons of mitutoyo's which are calibrated. I took some time to have a look at the super cheapo's vs. mitutoyo's best with calibration certs that are due in 2014.

I did two tests: 1.) origin repeatability, 2.) variation between micrometers' measurements on my test parts. The data that I took is attached.

Digital micrometer evaluation 01.txt

This is a tab delimited text file which can be opened in excel.


The result is pretty interesting. As far as I can tell the pittsburgh is the best instrument for repeatability and accuracy. precision on all three are identical (0.00005")

The pittsburgh repeats it's origin within -0.00001" over 10 attempts. The most expensive coolant proof calibrated mitutoyo repeats within +0.00004" in 10 attempts.

On the second type of measurement, the pittsburgh always ended up closest to the average of the measurments - within -0.00004", while the most expensive mitutoyo ended up within -0.00012"

We're splitting less than hairs here (literally) but this really speaks to the capability of cheapo chinese manufacuters. And so what if it isn't coolant proof. I can buy 10 pairs of pittsburghs for the price of 1 coolant proof mitutoyo.


I don't want to rag on mitutoyo here - their build quality is far superior - but the data says that thier measuring capability on calibrated micrometers is actually not, and for 10x the price.

I will likely buy a pair of mitutoyos as soon as I can afford them none the less... Thought this was pretty entertaining though.
"



http://www.cnczone.com/forums/general-metalworking-machines/176469-micrometers-mitutoyo-calibrated-vs-harbor-freight-pittsburgh-post1252504.html#post1252504

But anyways..I take It that there is nothing useful to do with two 1" micrometers? Because thats the original question. Can we save the "i hate electronics" luddite stuff for another thread please...

Analias
10-12-2014, 12:44 PM
The way my calipers go through batteries would encourage me to keep the Lufkin around in case the battery was dead in the HF micrometer.

Just as a side comment, I have been very surprised how accurate my HF digital micrometer has been. Occasionally I double check it against a random gauge block and it has been spot on. I dread the day it gets dropped on the concrete floor.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 12:45 PM
The way my calipers go through batteries would encourage me to keep the Lufkin around in case the battery was dead in the HF micrometer.

Just as a side comment, I have been very surprised how accurate my HF digital micrometer has been. Occasionally I double check it against a random gauge block and it has been spot on. I dread the day it gets dropped on the concrete floor.

Sent from my Xoom using Tapatalk

Yeah me too..I know it will eventually happen. But I have lots of 20% off coupons and they are only $30 new I think so lol...

90LX_Notch
10-12-2014, 12:46 PM
Keep them both. As mentioned above, when the Horror Frieght fails the Lufkin will be working. Also, what if you drop one and it hits the floor hard at the wrong angle? Atleast you will have another one in reserve. Another thing to consider is that the Lufkin will be able to get into a tighter spot near a machine spindle/chuck due to it's smaller size.

It's not much of a sweetener for the lathe sale and you already own both of them. I'd keep them both.

Bob Fisher
10-12-2014, 12:50 PM
Sounds like you have already answered your original question to me.Bob.

goose
10-12-2014, 12:53 PM
I'd toss 'em both in with the Sherline, a novice will get all exited about that. Otherwise they're worthless, the Lufkin is about $5 on ebay and the HF less. After you sell the Sherline get a decent electronic micrometer, Fowler if money is tight, otherwise Mitutoyo.

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 12:56 PM
I'd toss 'em both in with the Sherline, a novice will get all exited about that. Otherwise they're worthless, the Lufkin is about $5 on ebay and the HF less. After you sell the Sherline get a decent electronic micrometer, Fowler if money is tight, otherwise Mitutoyo.

Looks like the harbor freight one beats the Mitutoyo for measurements..what data are you citing to say the Mitutoyo would be preferred?

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/64668-any-reason-to-keep-two-1-quot-micrometers?p=942103#post942103

adatesman
10-12-2014, 12:59 PM
Only 2? I must have a dozen... One lives with the mill, one with the lathe, and my favorite safe on the workbench for final inspection.

J Tiers
10-12-2014, 01:25 PM
If the Lufkin is NOT a tenths one. give it away with the other lathe, if you must. I'd keep the Sherline if possible, the two cover different size ranges, and the Sherline will be better for really small stuff.

Yeah, I know all about the idea of making tiny stuff on big lathes being easier than the reverse..... Whatever.... You go ahead and make a 0.25 mm pivot on a 10" Atlas and I hope you enjoy the experience.

But. back to the mics. A tool steel Lufkin like that isn't worth much, goose has a point. The tenths type (0.001 plus vernier) with carbide faces, which I think have a "V" suffix, are nicer than any Starrett I have ever used.

But, The HF one will be dead (battery, old age, phase of moon) just when you want it someday. Don't have that be your only one. HF is not nearly as bad as it was, although they seem to have also changed vendors recently, and may be cheaper-made now.


Myself, for "digital" stuff, I have one digital caliper, might have come from HF, probably paid 2 bucks for it. I keep it at work for the rubes to use. Everything else is a regular analog type, except for some of the metric ones, which I picked up for a song, and this cool old Slocomb ball-ended "Speedmic". The speedmic and the metric are mechanical digital, not electronic.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0803/jstanley/old%20tools/Slocombballendspeedmic_zps53fbf9ce.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/jstanley/media/old%20tools/Slocombballendspeedmic_zps53fbf9ce.jpg.html)

Before you call me a Luddite, my work is electronics, motor drives. VFD design, and various MIL stuff. I just know way too much about cheap electronics...... Spent 28 years in consumer electronics.

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 01:31 PM
If the Lufkin is NOT a tenths one. give it away with the other lathe, if you must. I'd keep the Sherline if possible, the two cover different size ranges, and the Sherline will be better for really small stuff.

Yeah, I know all about the idea of making tiny stuff on big lathes being easier than the reverse..... Whatever.... You go ahead and make a 0.25 mm pivot on a 10" Atlas and I hope you enjoy the experience.

But. back to the mics. A tool steel Lufkin like that isn't worth much, goose has a point. The tenths type (0.001 plus vernier) with carbide faces, which I think have a "V" suffix, are nicer than any Starrett I have ever used.

But, The HF one will be dead (battery, old age, phase of moon) just when you want it someday. Don't have that be your only one. HF is not nearly as bad as it was, although they seem to have also changed vendors recently, and may be cheaper-made now.


Myself, for "digital" stuff, I have one digital caliper, might have come from HF, probably paid 2 bucks for it. I keep it at work for the rubes to use. Everything else is a regular analog type, except for some of the metric ones, which I picked up for a song, and this cool old Slocomb ball-ended "Speedmic". The speedmic and the metric are mechanical digital, not electronic.

Before you call me a Luddite, my work is electronics, motor drives. VFD design, and various MIL stuff. I just know way too much about cheap electronics...... Spent 28 years in consumer electronics.

Not to change the subject, but you have an Atlas right? I keep forgetting who does and who doesn't. Do you use collets for workholding on the Atlas? Im not doubting what you are saying about small work being more difficult on the Atlas, but can you elaborate a bit about why?

Also, I promised myself I could only buy the Atlas if I sold the Sherline...so I gotta sell it. If I stop following my own rules about machinery acquisition...well...things wont go well around here and I'll end up buried in rusty filthy metal objects, glued to a toilet seat with a laptop open to homeshopmachinist

goose
10-12-2014, 02:04 PM
Looks like the harbor freight one beats the Mitutoyo for measurements..what data are you citing to say the Mitutoyo would be preferred?

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/64668-any-reason-to-keep-two-1-quot-micrometers?p=942103#post942103
I walked into a HF store once and was duly in-impressed with their merchandise.

The unscientific and unconfirmed load of cow excrement you cite is questionable in its methodology.

Brand new cheapie versus Mitutoyo factory banged around for unknown years. Toss those cheapies around a factory floor for a few months and get back to me on that.

Mitutoyo= several years of flawless performance in my shop.

I've got several Mitutoyo electronic products. If I dropped my 1" micrometer today I wouldn't hesitate to order another immediately.

If you need/want a 0.001 analog antique, I've got a Starrett you can have. If you're in the US just PM me your address and I'll send it for free.

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 02:10 PM
I walked into a HF store once and was duly in-impressed with their merchandise.

The unscientific and unconfirmed load of cow excrement you cite is questionable in its methodology.

Brand new cheapie versus Mitutoyo factory banged around for unknown years. Toss those cheapies around a factory floor for a few months and get back to me on that.

Mitutoyo= several years of flawless performance in my shop.

I've got several Mitutoyo electronic products. If I dropped my 1" micrometer today I wouldn't hesitate to order another immediately.

If you need/want a 0.001 analog antique, I've got a Starrett you can have. If you're in the US just PM me your address and I'll send it for free.

So your unscientific and unconfirmed experience in your shop is somehow more valid than someone elses! Thats some interesting logic. How does that work?

PixMan
10-12-2014, 02:25 PM
Keep two 0-1" micrometers? I have 10 in that size range, one of which is a Chinese one from a 0-12" set, never been out of the wrapper. The others are:

0-1" Starrett No.230RL - non-carbide anvils, best for measuring carbide end mills and other hard and sharp things that might crack measuring them with carbide anvils.
0-1" Starrett No.734XFL-1 digital electronic - Dead dur to Starrett's unreliable electronics. I may take it to them a third time in 5 years to have them fix it, then give it away.
0-1" Mitutoyo 101-117 - Carbide anvils, very compact, silky smooth. I use it for tight spaces even though I now need reading glasses to see the results.
0-1" Mitutoyo 111-166 spline mic - These are the reduced diameter, carbide tipped style. not the tapered point style. I used them a lot more when I made tiny parts with tiny shoulders.
0-1" Mitutoyo 222-125 mechanical digital readout blade mic - Primarily for groove diameters.
0-1" Mitutoyo 114-135 108 v-anvil mic - Used it once to measure a 5-flute end mill, though also good for checking roundness better than a regular micrometer.
0-1" Mitutoyo 223-125 mechanical digital readout disk micrometer - Sometimes you just need to measure a length where there's no other way other than a caliper, and this is more accurate.
0-1" VIS-Pracizion interchangeable anvil thread pitch micrometer - For the $20 I spent it's got nearly the same feel as the Mitutoyo's I used to use and sure beats using thread wires.
0-1" Mitutoyo 293-348 digital electronic - Now my No.1 "go to" micrometer. Absolutely the best, most reliable, accurate, smooth and versatile tool I have.

Yes, you should have more than one 0-1" micrometer. I just don't know if it should be both of those. :D

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 02:35 PM
Okay I made the ad for the Sherline but I left out the micrometer altogether..I literally forgot about it. Oh well thats probably a good idea..if nobody buys the Sherline at the price I put then Ill throw in the lufkin..but I'll give it a couple weeks first lol

There is something to be said for having the lufkin around..I could use it for measurements which dont need tenths accuracy and therefore relieve the harbor flop mic from wear..

Doozer
10-12-2014, 02:51 PM
Two words...
Robust technology.

-D

LKeithR
10-12-2014, 02:59 PM
Keep two 0-1" micrometers? I have 10 in that size range...

Yup, I've probably got 7-8 0-1" mikes kicking around...

mickeyf
10-12-2014, 03:08 PM
I promised myself I could only buy the Atlas if I sold the Sherline...so I gotta sell it.

Uh...I'm pretty sure all the rest of us lie to ourselves about how we're going to limit our tool collections. Come On! Don't be the social deviant!

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 03:10 PM
Uh...I'm pretty sure all the rest of us lie to ourselves about how we're going to limit our tool collections. Come On! Don't be the social deviant!

You tempt me and this is wrong..so wrong...

On the other hand, I could just pretend that I'm selling the Sherline to "make up" for the Atlas..then use the $450 to buy who knows what else instead! And the cycle continues forever

adatesman
10-12-2014, 03:21 PM
Just thinking out loud here.... Is there a unused axis drive on your mill? Could be fun to replace the motor on the Sherline with a stepper/servo with an encoder, bolt it to the rotary and use it as a 5 axis mill/turn. Provided you have spindle orientation and an automatic brake, all you'd need to do is grind some turning tools from round HSS. :)

BTW, a spare 0-1" mic really comes in handy for measuring online debates that turn towards needing to unzip and compare. ;)

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 03:29 PM
Just thinking out loud here.... Is there a unused axis drive on your mill? Could be fun to replace the motor on the Sherline with a stepper/servo with an encoder, bolt it to the rotary and use it as a 5 axis mill/turn. Provided you have spindle orientation and an automatic brake, all you'd need to do is grind some turning tools from round HSS. :)


I actually did consider that..but ended up buying a rotary table so as long as I dont need actual turning speeds I think those needs are satisfied. Or Im telling myself that until the sherline is long gone.


BTW, a spare 0-1" mic really comes in handy for measuring online debates that turn towards needing to unzip and compare. ;)

And in true forum tradition, it better measure in tenths

adatesman
10-12-2014, 04:03 PM
Or Im telling myself that until the sherline is long gone.

Been telling myself the same thing, and as time goes on and no one even nibbles at the Sherline I post on CL from time to time (guess I'm the only one who doesn't care of it's metric) it gets more and more tempting to convert it for use as a mill/turn since my controller will do 6 axes.

I have absolutely no use for one, but it would certainly be cool.



And in true forum tradition, it better measure in tenths

So true. :)

Lew Hartswick
10-12-2014, 06:53 PM
Keep the Lufkin, toss the electronic in with the lathe. The Lufkin will not need new batteries just when you need it. It is probably more accurate as well. Bob.
Yep!!! A-men. +1 or any other vote of approval . :-)
...lew...

iMisspell
10-12-2014, 07:28 PM
If your lathe does not have a carriage stop (and you want one), you could make a "clamp mount" and use one of the mics as a micro-stop.

The clamp would mount to your lathe and lock on to the housing of the mic, you could put a "thimble" of some kind on the thumb wheel of the mic (so not to damage the mic) and that thimble is what the carriage would touch.

Adjust mic, lock mic and you have a carriage stop as long as you don't run the machine like a gorilla.

_

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 08:00 PM
If your lathe does not have a carriage stop (and you want one), you could make a "clamp mount" and use one of the mics as a micro-stop.

The clamp would mount to your lathe and lock on to the housing of the mic, you could put a "thimble" of some kind on the thumb wheel of the mic (so not to damage the mic) and that thimble is what the carriage would touch.

Adjust mic, lock mic and you have a carriage stop as long as you don't run the machine like a gorilla.

_

I like it...and I will probably do just that. Thanks. Looks like I'm keeping the lufkin then

jdunmyer
10-12-2014, 08:10 PM
I have a Lufkin just like yours, and of the half-dozen 1" mikes that I have or have had, it's still my favorite. Including the Mitutoyo electronic job that pretty much never leaves the drawer because:

1. It's much heavier and not as nice "feeling" as the Lufkin

and:

2. the battery is probably dead anyway. Most folks complain about battery life in cheapo calipers; mine seem OK. OTOH: battery life in that Mitutoyo mike is awful, and we'll not even mention the Brown & Sharp electronic caliper.

J Tiers
10-12-2014, 08:43 PM
The Lufkins are far superior in feel to almost any of the other mics I have.

As for 1".... I have at least 5 located at machines and so forth, more if you include one with large discs for measuring slots, one with thin anvils that I use for checking crimp height on wire crimps, and a squad of thread mics. 2" I may have 3 or 4 of various kinds, located in various places at machines. Above that, there are a couple sizes I have duplicates of, plus one Tumicpo that covers 0 to 5" with replacable anvils (it's a pain). The metric I only have one of each.

Since I paid very little for them, I can calibrate them here, and they don't eat, no problem. I'd rather have one when I want it than have to come in from the shed to get one, and later go out there to retrieve it.


Not to change the subject, but you have an Atlas right?

Atlas DRILL PRESS (a huge one) an Atlas bandsaw, two Atlas shapers (just taking up space) No Atlas lathe, never owned one.

One 10" Logan here, one 2" Boley, and an 8" Rivett 608 being slowly restored (crosslides are totally re-scraped now).

MetalMunger
10-12-2014, 09:44 PM
Micrometers will reproduce if 2 are kept in a dark closet with some wire coat hangers.
Because of the amount of metal in a micrometer the reproductive act requires more time than for the hangers to multiply.:rolleyes:

38_Cal
10-12-2014, 10:09 PM
Several of my gunsmithing students have the HF type, and several in the class that started last year also. Most of the electronic ones from last year's class have crapped out...the HF types in less than a semester. I keep a couple of EBay mikes in my tool box at work in case one of my students has a dead battery or worse. I would rather see them using a $19.00 General Tools mike from Ace Hardware than the cheap electronic ones. The cheap HF types also do not have any means of using them if the battery dies. Better electronic mikes at least have a .001" scale on them for a power-out situation.

Fodenman
10-12-2014, 10:13 PM
Keep them both,and buy a spare quality battery with a long expire date.
You can never have too many tools,it's what raises us above the great unwashed.
I have a factory AJS tool for hairpin valve springs.Will I ever use it again,prob not.Will I get rid of it,never.

Man is a hunter gatherer,leaves and berries or tools,your choice.:)

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 10:23 PM
Several of my gunsmithing students have the HF type, and several in the class that started last year also. Most of the electronic ones from last year's class have crapped out...the HF types in less than a semester. I keep a couple of EBay mikes in my tool box at work in case one of my students has a dead battery or worse. I would rather see them using a $19.00 General Tools mike from Ace Hardware than the cheap electronic ones. The cheap HF types also do not have any means of using them if the battery dies. Better electronic mikes at least have a .001" scale on them for a power-out situation.

What crapped out?

Im hearing alot of worries about batteries. You guys know you can buy a roll of 16 of those batteries for about 5 bucks right? I mean, its not exactly the only electronic measurement instrument that uses batteries. That seems like kind of an irrational concern.

lakeside53
10-12-2014, 10:41 PM
My Mitutoyo and B&S electronic mic batteries last for years. The "insert generic Chinese" mics -maybe a month or two. But if you don't care, then I don't either! I passed all my "Fowler and no-name" mics along to the next guy.

My real electronic mics have carbide anvils, manual 10th scales, and I trust them without question year after year. Not only do they measure accurately, they "feel" right (and consistently). "Feel" is import for constant measurements. I also have a complete set of 1" to 14 inch (yep, in 1 inch increments, not with "rods") manual mics (Mitutoyo). I can't trust low end non-carbide anvil mics to repeat accurately throughout their ranges over years of use. But.. if you don't care about 10ths, maybe they'll work for you.

Back to the original question : I have several 1 inch mics - often I'll have one in a stand for bench measurements, one on the lathe, one on the mill, one lost (temporarily...), couple in the drawers.

J Tiers
10-12-2014, 11:05 PM
What crapped out?

Im hearing alot of worries about batteries. You guys know you can buy a roll of 16 of those batteries for about 5 bucks right? I mean, its not exactly the only electronic measurement instrument that uses batteries. That seems like kind of an irrational concern.

Not so much, actually.

The "roll of 16"..... how many of them will actually WORK when the time comes?

For starters, even a quality battery will self-discharge over time. After a certain time of storage, it has little charge left, and eventually it has none. The better the battery, the longer that time may be.

Then, the "roll of 16" for a low cost.... do you suppose they are made in a QC-controlled facility? More likely they are done by a family with a hand press on the kitchen/dining/work table of the apartment. (Don't believe that? I've seen it.)

So, these cheap, but of course finest quality, batteries will naturally be ready to work and put out their full ampere hour capacity whenever you want them! That and wash your clothes, make dinner, and give you a backrub. Yep... pretty likely, I'd say.

doctordoctor
10-12-2014, 11:13 PM
Not so much, actually.

The "roll of 16"..... how many of them will actually WORK when the time comes?

For starters, even a quality battery will self-discharge over time. After a certain time of storage, it has little charge left, and eventually it has none. The better the battery, the longer that time may be.

Then, the "roll of 16" for a low cost.... do you suppose they are made in a QC-controlled facility? More likely they are done by a family with a hand press on the kitchen/dining/work table of the apartment. (Don't believe that? I've seen it.)

So, these cheap, but of course finest quality, batteries will naturally be ready to work and put out their full ampere hour capacity whenever you want them! That and wash your clothes, make dinner, and give you a backrub. Yep... pretty likely, I'd say.

So this is really coming down to batteries? Seriously? You realize that all the major brands of precision instruments offer battery powered devices and have for decades right? How does any of these make sense?

Here, duracell button cell. $0.97 cents. Buy 15 of them, pay $5 shipping, done for years. I cant believe I even have to say this.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DURACELL-D381-391BPK-Button-Cell-Battery-381-391-Silver-Oxide-/331343727347?pt=US_Single_Use_Batteries&hash=item4d25a00af3

thaiguzzi
10-12-2014, 11:49 PM
Keep the Lufkin, toss the electronic in with the lathe. The Lufkin will not need new batteries just when you need it. It is probably more accurate as well. Bob.

+1. Some of my mics are as old as me and a lot more accurate. Inc tenths.

J Tiers
10-12-2014, 11:49 PM
NOT JUST batteries, but they ARE a part of it.

They go dead just when you can't get another one, or don't want to stop in the middle. They leak and then you suddenly find the electronics have been "eaten" by the battery goo. Just two problems, both of which I have had recently with other instruments.

When you want the one you bought 4 years ago, you find it doesn't work anymore, it's past its date and discharged.

Aside from that, the electronics do go "out" for any of a hundred reasons. And most of those types of units are "repaired" by replacement of the innards, at a cost often competitive with a new item.

Don't lecture me about electronics.... I've been in the electronics biz for almost 40 years, most of it designing consumer goods. Did a few years while in school, repairing. I've seen most of it.....

One thing about a mechanical mic. IT. JUST. WORKS.

Now, if you have something to measure in millionths, you are GOING to use electronic measuring tools (but possibly an air gauge instead).

But, for something which is easily done by purely mechanical means, the only reasons to do it electronically are to do it cheaper, or in a more glitzy manner, or a manner which any dipwad can understand. There is no improvement to the actual accuracy.

The basic measurement is often done the same in either case... contact with the part, and a screw. For a caliper it's different, but for the mic I believe most if not all are still a screw. (The same type pickup as with a caliper is possible, though.)

It's just a question of data presentation. If it means that much to you to get a nice numeric LCD readout, by all means use that. I'm happy for you.

Just realize that there are added electronics that are interposed for no reason of accuracy, and they can fail even if the mechanical part still works. And the failure may make the unit worthless until repaired, regardless of the fact that the mechanical stuff still works. (some can be read off a scale even so)

thaiguzzi
10-12-2014, 11:57 PM
Give it another 5-10 years, and young kids/apprentices/guys new to the game won't even be able to read a vernier caliper/height guage or a normal 0.001" mic, let alone a tenths. They'll only be able to read electronic digitals. Sad, but the modern world, just like kids today everything is email or text an SMS, they can't even write a letter with correct pronunciation. Me, i'm old skool, a dinosaur, and proud of it.

38_Cal
10-13-2014, 12:10 AM
Not just batteries going dead in the middle of a project, but the electronic circuitry not working, or not working consistently. Measure a barrel shank at .980" , double check it a bit later before threading and it reads .985" using the same tool. Instructor checks it with a quality Starrett or Mitutoyo manual mike and it reads .978". The crappy tool does not give the student any confidence in his own ability, and it's dollars down the drain, since he now has to go out and buy a replacement tool. Buy a good tool the first time and there won't be a second time!


What crapped out?

Im hearing alot of worries about batteries. You guys know you can buy a roll of 16 of those batteries for about 5 bucks right? I mean, its not exactly the only electronic measurement instrument that uses batteries. That seems like kind of an irrational concern.

jdunmyer
10-13-2014, 08:12 AM
Give it another 5-10 years, and young kids/apprentices/guys new to the game won't even be able to read a vernier caliper/height guage or a normal 0.001" mic, let alone a tenths.


Heck, *I* can't read a vernier caliper, not because I don't know how, but because I can't see the little lines anymore. I do have an 18" caliper with a .050" vernier that's easy to read, but the old 6" calipers are useless to me. There's a couple of the HF-type 6" electronic calipers laying around.

I'm with the "keep one handy wherever you need it" crowd. Lately, I've placed machinist combination squares in several locations, 2 in the woodshop alone. There's 3 hacksaws, with 18, 24, and 32 TPI blades. Same with drill indexes, I have 3 or 4 of them around the place. Just one with letters & numbers, the others are fractions only.

DR
10-13-2014, 10:45 AM
Micrometers are a necessity, I find them cumbersome though. Say you're machining a group of parts with two diameters nominally of 1/4" and 3/4". In that case two mikes are better than a single one where you have to spin it back and forth between the two settings.

As an aside, going to the grocery store yesterday I spotted an estate sale with tools mentioned on the sign (who could resist). I picked up a few 3/8" drive Craftsman deep sockets for three bucks. While leaving I noticed a small micrometer size Starrett box on the kitchen counter, opened it to see a Craftsman mike with ratchet thimble and the Starrett friction thimble mike originally in the box, both appear virtually unused. How much? The guy says just take it, I made sure he understood what was in it. He still said take it with the comment nobody else seemed interested. You can imagine how lucky I felt. Then I get home and tell my wife of my luck, all she says is, don't you already have a couple of those?

DR
10-13-2014, 10:53 AM
I have a Lufkin just like yours, and of the half-dozen 1" mikes that I have or have had, it's still my favorite. Including the Mitutoyo electronic job that pretty much never leaves the drawer because:

1. It's much heavier and not as nice "feeling" as the Lufkin

and:

2. the battery is probably dead anyway. Most folks complain about battery life in cheapo calipers; mine seem OK. OTOH: battery life in that Mitutoyo mike is awful, and we'll not even mention the Brown & Sharp electronic caliper.

Battery life on older electronic measuring stuff does seem poor. I have older special Mitutoyo calipers, center hole distance and edge to center hole types (expensive) that eat batteries fast and neither one has auto shut off.

justanengineer
10-13-2014, 11:15 AM
JMO but I'd keep both. As others suggest, having multiples is simply convenient. Personally, I also keep multiples as I have different quality levels. My known "good" ones get used only a few odd times/year when I need to accurately measure <0.001" and NEVER see a rough surface finish on a part. I also check the anvils regularly with an optical flat and occasionally get checked out otherwise by a gagemaker friend.

mickeyf
10-13-2014, 12:27 PM
You guys know you can buy a roll of 16 of those batteries for about 5 bucks right?

Side note on this...

This guy (http://www.wired.com/2012/01/are-expensive-batteries-worth-the-extra-cost/) did a quick and dirty study of Dollar Store vs Name Brand batteries. The executive summary as I read it, is that they both have about the same amount of energy per dollar but with the cheapies you'll probably be changing them more frequently.

Stepside
10-13-2014, 02:42 PM
I have multiples of Michrometers from 1/2 to 6 inches. Most are Starrett. Most were bought on E'Bay for nickels on the dollar or better. Some were even brand new or close to it. I keep a set that is just MINE and another set that is for visiting shop people. There are no digital measuring devices in the shop, hence no dead batteries or crapped out electronics. I guess the DRO on the Bridgeport is digital and even Metric at times but it does not use batteries. If as a guest you are not willing to learn how to use/read a michrometer you would be in the wrong shop. This probably means I am a Luddite and a grouchy old bastard as well.

hermetic
10-13-2014, 04:38 PM
Hi Stepside,
I could not agree more! In my day job as an electrical engineer, we saw our testing equipment go digital a long time ago, ! am not a luddite, so I bought a digital multimeter, not a cheap one, I was a real mug and bought an expensive one, by a well known reputable British maker although I later found out thet the internal circuitry was not British It broke within it's warranty period and was repaired under warranty, six months later it broke ahgain (different fault) and was returned to me as "Beyond economical repair" so I binned 400 worth of equipment that was less than two years old, and stupidly bought another (different make, Still supposedly British) It just managed to limp out of its warranty period. Given this experience and the fact that I have not yet come across any digital multimeter that will reliably measure a varying value without filling the screen with gobbldygook, I gave up and went back to analogue test equipment, I have two genuine AVO test sets, both from the seventies, which can be recalibrated in seconds with a test resistance, instead of an annual 40 calibration fee, and I use a Handle wound megger insulation tester which was used by the Royal Engineers in WW2, heavy, but has never let me down. In my other life as an engineer in other fields, I do have a digital caliper, bought from Lidl (do you have them stateside) but will be the equivalent of your HF. It is to all intents and purposes accurate as you can measure with a caliper, but when I am near the mark the micrometer is the tool of choice and it is all metal, Moore and Wright or Starret. You can check them in seconds, they are cheap, need no batteries, and they are accurate. If you can't learn to read one in 20 minutes you should be hoeing turnips! The crux of what I want to say is this, all my micrometers, like my analogue test equipment is old, probably more than 20 years and in the case of the megger (insulation tester) dated 1943! all is still functioning perfectly, and perfectly accurate, for a given value of accuracy. Here is the interesting bit, if you look at the specifications for any peice of digital measuring equipment, you will note they quote a percentage AT A FIXED TEMPERATURE! at this temperature the equipment is at its most accurate, at any other temperature, who knows. Whilst the analogue equipment gives a percentage at a wide temperature range, ie, the real world.This is due to various electronic components, carbon film resistors especially, changing their value with temperature. My analogue equipment uses wire wound resistors, which are very accurate and temperature stable, but expensive. Analogue meter movements are VERY expensive for pro grade ones. and that is why everything today is digital, quite simply digital equipment is much much MUCH cheaper to manufacture, carries a price premium because of the supposed accuracy hype and "multifunctionality" (AKA using ALL the legs on the chip to do something,anything!), and has a limited lifespan! The perfect product for profit!!
Phil
East Yorkshire
UK

Lgpain2
10-14-2014, 09:17 PM
I've had several occasions that more than one 0-1" mic comes in handy - i.e. one job checking shims no more than .020" then measuring other pieces or diameters under one inch, think of the time you spend opening and closing the mic!
I don't think you can have to many and 2 or 3 aren't to many.
Lgpain2