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dalesvp
10-14-2014, 08:14 AM
Ten minutes of envy and inspiration.

The amount of meticulous detail and genius craftsmanship and microscopic precision that goes into one of these Patek Philippe Grandmaster Chime 5175R is ridiculous. Just watching the little pieces fit together is like seeing the most beautiful puzzle ever get completed. It better be, since the watch costs $2.5 million.

http://sploid.gizmodo.com/seeing-the-worlds-most-complicated-watch-get-built-is-p-1645979949

vpt
10-14-2014, 08:50 AM
2.5 mil for that watch a guy says?

Amazing stuff though! Sure would suck to miss or forget a part and have to go back in!

A.K. Boomer
10-14-2014, 10:03 AM
And this year they shaved the weight down to only 2.2 lbs !

Those guys are indeed master craftsmen - but what an incredible waste of time, I bet an 8 dollar Casio slaughters it for time keeping capabilities and is about 1/10th the weight, Be very happy your not wealthy enough to afford one of these things because it's things like this that you most likely end up buying... basically stuff you can't use... again I think the craftsmen do amazing work - it's just too bad the end product is a POS... just my two cents...

thaiguzzi
10-14-2014, 10:21 AM
Excuse my French... Unf#ckingbelievable! Not only CNC machining, but all that hand fettling. I don't like the ostentacous (?) stuff myself, but i am a big fan of Swiss (or even Seiko) mechanical watches. If you like a decent watch, and are a mechanic/machinist like myself, then you want a mechanical watch. My 12 year old Oris is about $6-700 new now, loses about 5 minutes a week, is 6 years behind with its 3 yearly check - up, plain Jane as can be from the front, turn it over, look thru the crystal saphire back glass and WATCH ALL THOSE GEARS MOVE! Battery watches suck. Thanx for posting, i've filed it and sent it on to fellow gearheads who appreciate mechanics.
Cheers,
Mike.
(Luddite).

daryl bane
10-14-2014, 10:35 AM
Some of that takes my breath away. I'll have to admit and maybe it was the music , but I almost got alittle misty eyed there.

A.K. Boomer
10-14-2014, 11:43 AM
I love good working practical mechanical stuff, and I have allot of respect for the pains gone through in the past before electronics and have worked on many an old clock for my Sis who is an antique dealer - it's one thing bringing back to life an old dinosaur like that when it was state of the art the only way to get it done - it's completely different creating a new dinosaur with many times the complexity, I mean hey - that's why I don't own a Mercedes


There is an unwritten clause in having to spend more monies for an effectively worse product for what the product was originally intended for --- but when the cost of that "object" is potentially millions the amount over what the supposedly "lesser" product is then to me it's one of those;

"A _ _ _ _ and his money is soon parted" type sayings...

and im trying to be kind here, yes maybe in a fist fight if you ever do actually connect ( like maybe a sucker punch? ) the extra weight will work in your favor,,, but odds are your going to get your ass handed to you for being so slow and cumbersome,

it could aid in cutting up firewood as the extra momentum might help the maul handle apply more kinetic energies, but so would about .001 cent's worth of sand wrapped around the wrist in one of those wrist band thingies... and without all the expensive "gear shock" and wear and the face of the watch flopping around trying to change directions... again in any kind of a practical sense what a total POS... and if all you can really do with it is keep it in a case "for safe keeping" then why not just draw a picture of it and hang it on a wall? would have saved a ton of trouble and the people building it could have actually put their time to use actually building something that works... just sayin.

Frank Ford
10-14-2014, 01:30 PM
Clearly it's a signature "tour de force" PR/advertising effort for a company that sells traditional craft and can clearly afford to do it. If they do sell the six they claim for 2-1/2 million each, the campaign won't cost them too terribly much and may have value at the bottom line.

Nonetheless amazing stuff, yes?

wierdscience
10-14-2014, 01:39 PM
If I had $2.5m to blow on a watch I wouldn't care what time it is.:D

Nice tools and craftsmanship though.

feets
10-14-2014, 01:39 PM
There's an incredible amount of hate here.

No need, guys.

Perhaps I see things a bit differently after spending the last 10 years in the premium segment of the auto industry (Bugatti, McLaren, Rolls, Bentley, etc). I could never afford any of those things but I don't wish death and dismemberment on those that can.

After a while you learn that it's simply a different approach to things. Those guys spend crazy money on stuff in the same way that us working stiffs covet the tool we were finally able to afford.
It's just stuff.

I'm thoroughly impressed with the amount of hand fitting used on those microscopic parts. The finished product is so far out of my league I have no interest in it. However, I find the fact that these guys can build the watch to be the truly impressive part.

topct
10-14-2014, 01:45 PM
I suspect that the watch is not really for sale. It would be a very cumbersome and troublesome piece. One drop on the floor and it would become just a useless pile of parts. It would make a terrible investment as all things of the same sort loose much of their value after purchase. I also suspect the price to be greatly inflated by the company as is also often the case.

It is an interesting project that uses almost entirely parts already made for their other watches, just put into a case that is also just a demonstration of work being done on their production watches.

Willy
10-14-2014, 02:16 PM
........
........, I find the fact that these guys can built the watch to be the truly impressive part.

This is my feeling as well after watching the video. It's not the watch...it's the process.
The micro-machining and the incredible amount of hands on craftsmanship and technique is what makes this an awe inspiring product, not the product itself.
Personally, if it was mine, I'd rather show off the video than the watch itself.

Can't imagine showing up at work Monday morning all hung over and spaced out and cobbling out a couple of those before lunch!:D

Thanks for sharing.

rohart
10-14-2014, 02:34 PM
Yeah, great. Errm, I just need to take it off, flip it over and put it back on so I can see the date. Maybe I'll just check on my mobile.

I'm sitting there thinking maybe 10 grand ? I'd rather buy another couple of houses.

mars-red
10-14-2014, 02:44 PM
Watches like the Pateks are a wonderful blend of cutting edge microengineering and traditional craftsmanship and finishing techniques. What really sets my heart a-flutter, though, are the truly hand made watches by the likes of George Daniels, Derek Pratt, Roger W. Smith, and even the new blood like our young Messrs. Paul Loatman and Jere Mihalov. It's a craft that produces some amazing art, and I for one am glad there are people wealthy enough (and willing enough) to keep the knowledge and craftsmanship alive.

BigSpike
10-14-2014, 03:50 PM
It's not the one or six guys blowing a fortune on one of these, it's the hundreds of people who have jobs directly & indirectly related to making these.
Skilled not fry cook jobs.
This is the real trickle down economics.

J Harp
10-14-2014, 03:56 PM
For my 2.5 million I'll have none of that engine turned finish in the wheel wells. They must be hand engraved.

SGW
10-14-2014, 04:29 PM
A 10X working model of it would be pretty cool.

cameron
10-14-2014, 04:58 PM
There's an incredible amount of hate here.

No need, guys.




.

What hate? Most posts say practically the same as you do - the workmanship is admirable, it's crazy to spend that much money on something of so little practical use ("crazy money" in your words).

PStechPaul
10-14-2014, 06:33 PM
It's much better that rich people actually spend their money, even for frivolous items like this, than keep it tied up in banks and stock portfolios and other investments that only benefit the very wealthy and their accountants. It is somewhat disconcerting to see the wealthy (and heavily credit-saddled wannabees) flaunting expensive jewelry, cars, and McMansions, but the money does benefit many lower layers of society and provides jobs for those who really need them. The exchange of money for goods and services boosts the overall economy, and it is better when it is spent quickly (which is the "velocity of money (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Velocity_of_money)").

Baz
10-14-2014, 06:45 PM
Cheap really. As best I remember a pair of pocket watches made to commemorate Columbus back in 1992 went for 3m.

justanengineer
10-14-2014, 06:55 PM
I worked for awhile designing fixtures for working on tiny electronics similar in size to those watch parts and much smaller. Every once in awhile I had to help in some minor way with assembly. One I will NEVER do again is placing tiny components under a microscope using tweezers. EFF THAT!!!

My hat is off to those who do these things everyday.

Doc Nickel
10-14-2014, 07:01 PM
What hate? Most posts say practically the same as you do - the workmanship is admirable, it's crazy to spend that much money on something of so little practical use ("crazy money" in your words).

-Items like this watch are typically purchased as investments, not for "practical" use.

Doc.

mike4
10-14-2014, 07:08 PM
The workmanship is good, something to be proud of .

But the mere mention of "class" gets me very agro, to me there is no lower class ,middle class , upper class.

That sh&t only exists in the almost empty skulls of those who crave for the old aristocracy.

To me all are equal , if any person tries to "put on airs", they are treated with the contempt that they deserve.

Michael

cameron
10-14-2014, 08:17 PM
Mike4, the old aristocracy may be as good as dead, but you're fooling yourself if you think there are no more classes. "The rich are different from you and me", whether you and I like it or not!

J Tiers
10-14-2014, 09:28 PM
The watch is pretty much coyote ugly on the outside. On a purely looks basis, nearly as ugly on the inside as well.

Well made? Sure. Intricate? Sure. clever? Sure. A triumph of packaging? Sure. Cool as a gizmo? Sure.

But it's STILL "chew your paw off" ugly.

As for the rich, there are rich and there are rich.

I used to know the son of an old Boston family (friend of a friend)... family has been rich for a couple hundred years, now. owns land and some manors in France, and all sorts of things here. He wouldn't have that thing for a gift, and was a pretty decent guy, actually. He had nothing to prove, no need to impress anyone, it didn't occur to him to do that.

On the other hand, I've known some folks who made money themselves, they were then, and are still, the nastiest stinkers you ever want to meet. They would leave you in no doubt that they could buy a dozen just like you out of pocket change, and exactly where that put you versus them on the social scale.

Real rich people don't ACT rich, they just ARE rich. The money without the decent upbringing is a curse.

A.K. Boomer
10-14-2014, 09:37 PM
-Items like this watch are typically purchased as investments, not for "practical" use.

Doc.

It has to be as you say of course - and I do realize this, but there's only so far you can take the lunacy before somebody cries foul... and you create a total "flop"
as Rohart already has in his simple observation of post #12;
"Yeah, great. Errm, I just need to take it off, flip it over and put it back on so I can see the date."

and from what I can see with the solid band I think he's correct - it's either that or you wear the damn thing so it's about to fall off...

when something this obvious is built into the very design and seems like not just an afterthought but what most would consider a total brain fart then the watch itself and all the great work that's put into it is about useless --- what it tells me is the fact that if they don't have enough brain power to even think that one through then I really don't want to know anything more about the "engineering" inside.

When it's all just about polish and finish then it's for the most part all about hype. "1366 movement components" seriously? and your bragging about that? in the motto of "keep it simple stupid" this would immediately throw the engineers into the idiot category... but lucky for them there really is very many extremely wealthy people who are stupid, so it may very well all work out... But Im sorry but I got no respect for people who create useless crap no matter what the "market" is... Not impressed. do something constructive with your time...

PStechPaul
10-14-2014, 09:52 PM
A watch like this would be perfect for someone who is totally transparent. :D

A.K. Boomer
10-14-2014, 09:54 PM
JT your right despite all there efforts the damn thing is as ugly as an illegitimate red headed stepchild.

but what get's me is the guy with the white silk gloves "fondling it" in the end of the selling hype, why that could be me could it not? if I applied myself and was a good boy?
and that damn music as if your body died and your ascending your way to heaven --- Oh dear God and Jesus can I bring the watch with me? oh please please please please please... ----------------- makes me sick...

J Tiers
10-14-2014, 10:10 PM
There ARE Patek Philippe watches I would be happy to wear, (except for the fact I am death to wristwatches) because they are just cool mechanisms.

Now, THAT over-ornamented homage to the "more of anything is better than less" crowd is not one of them.

feets
10-15-2014, 10:09 AM
I believe it's an exercise in "because we can" instead of being intended as a useful instrument.

Again with the angst.

Sad.

J Tiers
10-15-2014, 08:45 PM
yes, there are a lot of "because we can" things.... we even have "because we cans" in office here. They'd probably love it.

sansbury
10-15-2014, 10:44 PM
Well, I think Aston martins are more beautiful than anything that isn't named Angelina Jolie, while I find ferraris and Lamborghinis grotesque for the most part. This watch is in the same bucket looks wise. That said, all the hedge fundies and oil sheikhs who buy this stuff provide money to keep a lot of the best craftsmen and deep trade skills alive. I don't see the bad in that.

I do like some watches, too. My favorite is a Waltham model 1857 I own, with a serial number that dates it to sometime before shots were fired at Fort Sumter. I work in the New England tech industry, which exists in part because of the ecosystem that grew around the Waltham watch company. One of the first mass-produced consumer gadgets in history. 150 years old and still good to within a couple minutes per day.

thaiguzzi
10-16-2014, 12:36 AM
We also don't need $600,000 Bentleys, because a $30,000 Toyota Camry still gets us from A to B in relative safety and comfort... Just sayin'...

mike4
10-16-2014, 12:52 AM
Mike4, the old aristocracy may be as good as dead, but you're fooling yourself if you think there are no more classes. "The rich are different from you and me", whether you and I like it or not!

I am not someone who will in any way tolerate any "class : distinction from any person anywhere .

People who think they are better than anyone else don't deserve to be allowed to waste oxygen .

No one who acts like a "I am better than you type" is a customer of mine for long , for as soon as I find out about their act , all work stops , gear packed up and I leave ,or if they brought their gear to me they get a phone call to come and collect it.

Arrogance will get you no where with me , treat me and mine as equals then its a different story .

Michael

A.K. Boomer
10-16-2014, 01:10 AM
I do not believe people are equals, never have and never will, I think some people are better than others - it's just that for the most part money does not have much if any to do with it...

I better edit this before people start freaking out, all peoples may be created equal - but time marches on and some prove themselves far better than others...

mike4
10-16-2014, 01:50 AM
I do agree there are some who are quite well off , money wise , but dont act like arrogant fools.

Others may have some money or earn a high wage but they are complete a#oles , who dont want to pay for any work done for them.

And there are those who think that because they have their heads that far up their backside and cant see any daylight , that they are superior to all others.

I treat all as equal until some of them open their mouth and prove that they are not worth being around.

Michael

Seastar
10-16-2014, 10:43 AM
Interesting thread!
Seems to have brought out the worst in some people.
Bill

feets
10-17-2014, 12:51 AM
I do agree there are some who are quite well off , money wise , but dont act like arrogant fools.

Others may have some money or earn a high wage but they are complete a#oles , who dont want to pay for any work done for them.

And there are those who think that because they have their heads that far up their backside and cant see any daylight , that they are superior to all others.

I treat all as equal until some of them open their mouth and prove that they are not worth being around.

Michael

This was my life for 10 years. I was at a company that sold and serviced Mercedes, Porsche, Maserati, Bentley, Rolls-Royce, McLaren, Bugatti, and other luxury brands.
Some of those people were the nicest folks in the world. You could usually see their type coming. Casual dress. Jeans, T-shirts, nothing flashy. They were comfortable with who they were. Athletes, performing artists, business owners, and even a couple well known billionaires fell into that group.
Then, you have the flashy, trendy, mortgaged within an inch of their life types that had to own the latest and greatest. Again, you're looking at Athletes (Dez Bryant amongst the worst), performing artists, business owners, and others. No billionaires in that group. By the time they advance that far they generally know how to treat people or have others handle business for them.

After a decade of dealing with that group I must say that you never really know what you've got until they open their mouths.

The Doctor
10-17-2014, 03:45 AM
Personally, I prefer an old Accutron.

vpt
10-17-2014, 08:53 AM
I put in an order for two last night. I used my capitol one card so I got 1.5% off!

Seastar
10-17-2014, 09:03 AM
I put in an order for two last night. I used my capitol one card so I got 1.5% off!
Now that's my kind of post!!!!
Bill

A.K. Boomer
10-17-2014, 10:17 AM
Iv worked on a few exotics also as the foreign car shop that kept me busy would take in just about everything, I do not discriminate against the rich - like everyone here stated they are a mixed bag just like everybody else,

But I do have issues with certain things that are created like the watch in the OP - and although many people have brought up that it still keeps people "busy" and the people who may purchase it supply jobs well that's all fine I guess you could say that about most anything,

But the fact is - is because it is totally useless and because there was an immense amount of time put into it - I don't have a whole lot of respect for it or the people who build it, and in fact I have way more respect for a brick layer who's holding +or- .1" and building something tangible to maybe help support a family and keep them warm.

Heck - I have more respect for a guy who cleans out septic tanks for a living --- don't think he's important? just see what happens if he never shows,

My old wise boss/man at that foreign car shop had a saying; "there is no unimportant work" and the meaning behind this are the two guys I just described above, and you can include the "lowly" trash collector...

what many people look down on I have a deep gratitude and admiration for...

but these types of watchmakers? sorry -------- now there's exceptions to the rule... there actually is unimportant work... I would not last a day in that environment - I would immediately get disgusted with myself and be asking questions like "god - what am I doing with my life" but that's just me I guess - so be it...

dalesvp
10-17-2014, 11:27 AM
It is interesting to see how this thread became something else. I posted it because of the craftsmanship that went into the making of this watch. I make things of metal in my shop for about fourteen years now. I strive to do the best I can but by many standards I've a long ways to go to get the perfect fit and finish on my work. So to see these watchmakers do such an exquisite piece of art in metal was and is inspirational to me. They have a level of fine work one can aspire to. Thanks for all your comments. PS: Here is one of the device I built: http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.com/svpwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Altea

mickeyf
10-17-2014, 11:54 AM
Ahem. Well. Yes. I, uh, guess I'll just be getting back to the shop now so I can cut off a piece of scrap steel to the nearest 1/16th" on my Harbor Freight bandsaw...

topct
10-17-2014, 12:11 PM
It is interesting to see how this thread became something else. I posted it because of the craftsmanship that went into the making of this watch. I make things of metal in my shop for about fourteen years now. I strive to do the best I can but by many standards I've a long ways to go to get the perfect fit and finish on my work. So to see these watchmakers do such an exquisite piece of art in metal was and is inspirational to me. They have a level of fine work one can aspire to. Thanks for all your comments. PS: Here is one of the device I built: http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.com/svpwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Altea

I have seen that before and would like to know what it might sound like.

MikeL46
10-17-2014, 01:08 PM
Wow! How do you feel about people wearing an $8000 Rolex?

Seriously, some people (rich or poor) are jerks to be avoided. Some people you wished could be your friends. Money has little to do with it, their (and your) attitudes have everything to do with it.

Mike

Black Forest
10-17-2014, 02:18 PM
It is interesting to see how this thread became something else. I posted it because of the craftsmanship that went into the making of this watch. I make things of metal in my shop for about fourteen years now. I strive to do the best I can but by many standards I've a long ways to go to get the perfect fit and finish on my work. So to see these watchmakers do such an exquisite piece of art in metal was and is inspirational to me. They have a level of fine work one can aspire to. Thanks for all your comments. PS: Here is one of the device I built: http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.com/svpwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Altea

Can you shear a sheep on that thing?

mike4
10-18-2014, 05:53 AM
I prefer my Seiko autowind , no batteries and no need to take it off and turn it over to read the date.

BF , you would be able to build several more hydraulic devices and ease you work load for the cost of this useless timepiece ,even if the craftsmanship was impressive , at least what you make is usefull.
Michael

Black Forest
10-18-2014, 06:32 AM
I prefer my Seiko autowind , no batteries and no need to take it off and turn it over to read the date.

BF , you would be able to build several more hydraulic devices and ease you work load for the cost of this useless timepiece ,even if the craftsmanship was impressive , at least what you make is usefull.
Michael

Don't you all think if a person was smart enough to make the money needed to buy this watch they would be smart enough to remember the date all day if they looked at the back of the watch when they put it on in the morning? First off I would say who cares about the type of person that would buy the watch. Second, who is to say what another person does with their money is OK or not. As long as their family is taken care of I say each to their own.

My mentor with horses was a man named Tom Dorrance. I have never met any other person in my life who's wants were so close to his actual needs. That notion messed with my head for a long time because I wanted THINGS and felt a little bit of a lesser person because of it. It took a long time for me to sort out in my head that what is right for one person is not necessarily right for another. He never made me feel like less of a person it was just me doing it to myself.

Just consider the watch as a work of art not a watch. Think about gold for instance. Why is it worth so much? Or diamonds. There is no shortage of diamonds, they are not rare, just controlled as to their availability. Why would anyone pay a million dollars for a diamond as their is no practical reason.

Different strokes for different folks. Nothing about that watch takes anything away from any of us. It is not polluting our world or going to blow up if not handled correctly. I wouldn't want it as a gift but that doesn't take away from me appreciating the craftsmanship.

alanganes
10-18-2014, 06:44 AM
Another aspect to this sort of thing is that people (and companies, etc.) who do somewhat over the top stuff like this are often the ones that push the state of the art in their industries. That occasionally spills over into other industries as well.

I'd never buy one of these even if I could afford one. But there is a place in the world for stuff to get done, just to see if it can be done. It does not always need to make sense to everyone.

Black Forest
10-18-2014, 06:59 AM
Another aspect to this sort of thing is that people (and companies, etc.) who do somewhat over the top stuff like this are often the ones that push the state of the art in their industries. That occasionally spills over into other industries as well.

I'd never buy one of these even if I could afford one. But there is a place in the world for stuff to get done, just to see if it can be done. It does not always need to make sense to everyone.

That logic was the excuse for the space program when in reality it was/is the ego's of the men or countries behind the push. The race to get to the moon first was a huge waste of money and therefor resources in my mind. If the same taxpayer money had been put in research for cancer think where we might be today.

dalesvp
10-18-2014, 07:19 AM
I did not intend for this thread to be about my work with Dynaspheres. However, since some asked here is a bit more on these devices.

http://pondscienceinstitute.on-rev.com/svpwiki/tiki-index.php?page=What+is+a+Dynasphere

alanganes
10-18-2014, 09:00 AM
That logic was the excuse for the space program when in reality it was/is the ego's of the men or countries behind the push. The race to get to the moon first was a huge waste of money and therefor resources in my mind. If the same taxpayer money had been put in research for cancer think where we might be today.

No question that the space program was largely driven by national and individual ego. But lots of the tech that was developed for the space programs did, in fact spin off to other industries. It pushed the limits at the time of material science, computers, control, communication and navigation systems, etc.

Did any one NEED to go to the moon. No, I don't think so either. But I'm not sure I'd consider it a waste of money, motivations aside.

Nobody needs to climb Mt. Everest or make a sheep shearing machine either, but I don't think any of those things are a waste of effort.


I'd bet if you add it all up we'd find that the amount of money spent on the space program getting to the moon was a pittance compared to what has been spent on cancer research, and while we have gotten a lot better at treating many cancers, a "cure" as such may always elude us.

Black Forest
10-18-2014, 11:04 AM
Nobody needs to climb Mt. Everest or make a sheep shearing machine either, but I don't think any of those things are a waste of effort.

.

I would agree with you on climbing Mt. Everest but building a sheep shearing machine has a very practical application and it risks no ones life with a rescue effort for the idiots that climb mountains.:cool:

Black Forest
10-18-2014, 11:04 AM
Nobody needs to climb Mt. Everest or make a sheep shearing machine either, but I don't think any of those things are a waste of effort.

.

I would agree with you on climbing Mt. Everest but building a sheep shearing machine has a very practical application and it risks no ones life with a rescue effort for the idiots that climb mountains.:cool:

J Tiers
10-18-2014, 11:25 AM
The space program definitely DID spawn all sorts of technological advances. The overall list is enormous, and, for instance, includes developments which allow you to have the computer you use to "be here" on the forum.

As for the watch...

A decent rich person might commission such a thing as a work of art.

A rich jerk would wear it, and make sure you knew it.

If no such things as that kind of "quasi-baronial excess" existed, how would you tell the jerks from the good people among the rich?

Just remember... there is a REASON why "Barons" get all the blame for excess and gaudy stuff.... They were the fringe of the nobility, basically warlords, and were not on nearly the same level with even the counts, earls, and so forth. So they both had something to prove, and perhaps more of a personal need for the gaudy.

As with those days, so with these days.... there are folks who have a need to show they have "made it", and then there are folks to whom being rich is just who they are, like being dark haired or blond. The latter can be "people", the former have to be "rich people".