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jdunmyer
10-23-2014, 02:36 PM
I saw an auction notice for a sale on Saturday, and looked at the stuff today. There's a Hardinge turret lathe for sale, it has a bunch of 5C collets, has a bed length of about 30", and a 6-station turret. It looks much like the one in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUt3P2_lfm0

Any ideas on what something like that would bring?

What would I use it for? I've always been fascinated by turret lathes, but can't readily see a use for other than making little brass thumb nuts. I don't need THAT many thumb nuts, however.

I'm trying to figure out whether it would be worth the space it'd take up.

Doc Nickel
10-23-2014, 03:36 PM
In good shape and in running condition, I've seen 'em listed for anywhere from $1,500 to $5,000, though the higher ranges usually include fairly significant tooling.

As for uses, theoretically you can buy an add-on X/Y slide arrangement and a tailstock to convert it to a minimal conventional lathe, but you'd have no power feed, no threading and a very short carriage travel (before you have to unbolt the carriage and slide it sideways.) Those two parts are also fabulously expensive- the cross slide usually sells for more than the cost of the lathe.

No, it's pretty much a turret lathe only, and while it's possible, with effort, to use it for day-to-day one-off parts, it's not easy, it's time consuming, and very limiting in the size of the part you can make.

Basically, if you're not making batches of parts on a semi-regular basis, no, it's not worth the space.

Doc.

jdunmyer
10-23-2014, 07:17 PM
The auctioneer happened to be present, setting up other stuff, and he told me he sold one this past Spring for $1300.00 that seemed to be workable and looking good. Another that was basically a parts machine brought $350.00.

I know a fella who makes spokes and nipples for wire wheels on a turret lathe, but I am not him.

I think the Cleveland trencher will bring less than the Hardinge. :-)

Toolguy
10-23-2014, 09:03 PM
I have used the Hardinge toolroom and turret lathes. Both are really nice machines if you have the space. One in good condition is a steal at $1500. Assuming a person could get it for around that price. I sold my turret one for $3000 and the guy that got it was super happy.

justanengineer
10-23-2014, 09:31 PM
Theyre like anything else. It all depends on location, condition, tooling, and both the buyer and seller. At a non-industrial auction in fair-terrible condition with moderate-no tooling Id expect $1-300. Sold by an individual who doesnt need the money or space, has a first class machine with a ton of tooling, I'd expect ~$1500 in the parts.

FWIW, back in '08 I scrapped quite a few of them bc I was buying them for <$100 and couldnt sell them otherwise. Dam near every shop had them at one point or another, so they were at nearly every small shop auction I went to.

Sun God
10-24-2014, 01:51 AM
The other consideration to make, however, for small speed and turret lathes, is that the addition of a small XY stage to the bed, and some electrickery, will net you a CNC lathe for small parts far more rigid than any typical 7x14" conversion.

If it has a collet closer, it could even be used as a small machine for low rate production with gang tooling. And at the end of the day you can just take the CNC stage off and put the turret back on for small runs better suited to that. It's the best of both worlds.

DR
10-24-2014, 05:28 AM
An important consideration on Hardinge machines is whether the lathe has a dovetail bed or the older style split bed. The dovetail bed being by far the better and more desirable model. The dovetail models are very high quality machines.

Back in the day a dovetail bed model with a reasonable amount of tooling like shown in the video would easily bring three to five thousand at auction on the west coast. Of late prices have taken a significant dive, I've seen them sit on CL forever at $1250.

They're primarily production machines intended for producing multi-part runs. Sometimes they're called second op machines tooled up to do relatively simple finishing operations on parts produced on automatic high production machinery.

It's the kind of machine that if you have to ask what it's used for you probably don't have a need for it. On the other hand if it goes low enough "need" has never stopped me from buying a machine.

lwalker
10-24-2014, 07:27 AM
Last one I saw from these guys (http://www.hoffonlineauctions.net/cgi-bin/mnlist.cgi?hoff88/category/MACHINERY-LATHES) went for $160 last month (I think it's missing a cutoff slide). I didn't bid at this auction, but I seem to remember they usually go for around $500.

Gotta love those two W&S ones, though.

loose nut
10-24-2014, 10:42 AM
FWIW, back in '08 I scrapped quite a few of them bc I was buying them for <$100 and couldnt sell them otherwise.

SACRILEGE I SAY, scrapping old iron for money. Send out the black helicopters to round up this fiend and drag him through the cactus bushes behind horses.

Black Forest
10-24-2014, 01:33 PM
I would like to find a turret lathe now! I watched the video in the first post and then a bunch of other youtube videos on turret lathes. I want one!!! Now I have to find out what they are called in German.

tlfamm
10-24-2014, 02:01 PM
An important consideration on Hardinge machines is whether the lathe has a dovetail bed or the older style split bed. The dovetail bed being by far the better and more desirable model. The dovetail models are very high quality machines.

Back in the day a dovetail bed model with a reasonable amount of tooling like shown in the video would easily bring three to five thousand at auction on the west coast. Of late prices have taken a significant dive, I've seen them sit on CL forever at $1250.

They're primarily production machines intended for producing multi-part runs. Sometimes they're called second op machines tooled up to do relatively simple finishing operations on parts produced on automatic high production machinery.

It's the kind of machine that if you have to ask what it's used for you probably don't have a need for it. On the other hand if it goes low enough "need" has never stopped me from buying a machine.


Is this Hardinge 'chucker' a DSM59, or a different model? It does have threading, a DRO, and a price to match: $3500:

http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/4705342211.html

wern
10-24-2014, 03:14 PM
I would like to find a turret lathe now! I watched the video in the first post and then a bunch of other youtube videos on turret lathes. I want one!!! Now I have to find out what they are called in German.

It is called a "Revolverdrehbank" in German, I have two Wards one CNC and one as a second op machine
and I agree with you every shop should have at least one.

Werner

jdunmyer
10-25-2014, 11:08 AM
I decided to not tempt myself and didn't even attend the auction.

What originally caught my eye on the sale bill in the paper was "Cleveland Tiling Machine". I had one of those back in 1980-81 and drained my farm and my buddy's. Lots of work, but very educational, led to being the business for a few years. It looked much like this one, but had a Continental flathead 6-cylinder engine and couldn't dig quite as deep. http://www.machinerytrader.com/listingsdetail/detail.aspx?OHID=9145159

Rosco-P
10-25-2014, 04:05 PM
On turret or second-op lathes, one consideration is turret tooling size. The Hardinge uses 5/8" shank tooling, same as used on the B&S #00 automatic screw machines, "scare" and in demand. Other use 3/4" shank tooling, same as used on the B&S #0 screw machines, more plentiful, more rigid, larger capacity, cheaper to tool up.

DR
10-25-2014, 07:06 PM
Is this Hardinge 'chucker' a DSM59, or a different model? It does have threading, a DRO, and a price to match: $3500:

http://nh.craigslist.org/tls/4705342211.html

It's not a DSM59, it's a chucker. The automatic threading attachment is nice, they thread at CNC type speeds.

In this day $3500 seems high, not that it can't pay for itself at that price, just that it's high.