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MarkK
11-04-2014, 08:45 AM
First post here

I must say this forum has some of the brightest people I have seen on the web -- I am looking forward to learning from you folks

I retired last year from a field engineer position where I worked on laboratory instruments for 35 years

I hope to soon have time to work with my lathe that I bought used several years ago and never even turned it on yet

I have a Shop Fox 1018 lathe/milling machine

http://pics.woodstockint.com/pics/jpeg1000/m/m1018.jpg

it looks to be in pretty good shape but has been sitting for years

The forward/reverse DPDT switch was bad ( a real odd ball size but I finally found one on ebay after about 2 hours for $15)

the belts need replacing, and some clean up and TLC

The manual recommends changing the gear oil often -- it recommends SAE 20 gear oil --- never heard of it

can't find it locally (not too surprising since I am out in a rural area of SW Wisconsin) -- not even on the web

Any ideas ? or should I just used SAE 20 non detergent motor oil

loose nut
11-04-2014, 10:38 AM
Definitely want to go with the non-detergent type but gear oil may have some different additives. My chart says that 20w motor oil is about 80w gear oil, so they are very different, unless I'm reading this wrong. Many geared lathe manuals recommend hydraulic oil.

You can Google "oil viscosity comparisons" to get an equivalent oil to 20w gear oil. Or you could try this site.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/viscosity-charts/

MarkK
11-04-2014, 11:08 AM
Thanks LN

KJ1I
11-04-2014, 12:00 PM
Double check your manual -

"We recommend using ISO 68 or SAE 20W non-detergent machine oil" {emphasis added}

A bell went off when you said "20W gear" oil. I had never heard of a gear oil in that weight. So for hobby use, any quality non-detergent engine oil will do fine.

PS: Welcome to the forum!

MarkK
11-04-2014, 12:32 PM
Thanks KJ

Parts of the manual are in "Chinglish"

it says "gear oil" in one spot and "machine oil" in another

reminds me of the old Japanese motorcycle manuals sometimes "counter clock-wise the bolt to lossen with a wrinch" one of my favorites from my old Suzuki 250

the belt sizes are in metric or inch sizes 3L 710 Actually 3L 280 (710 mm converted to 28 inches) or 3L290 actually 3L290

BTW I finally remembered to check good old McMaster Carr

http://www.mcmaster.com/#2158k15/=ug7s1i

Thanks for the help

KJ1I
11-04-2014, 01:08 PM
Parts of the manual are in "Chinglish"

Don't we all experience that! One of my favorites is "... to the head too much torque don't apply for separation to occur ..."

I sometimes wonder if I could get a job re-translating. ;)

Mike Amick
11-04-2014, 01:10 PM
My first couple of machines were shopmaster 3-in-1's. Lots of fun on them .. and like you
I procrastinated/savored/nervously delayed making my first cut. After making it, I could have
kicked myself .. so much fun.

Anyways .. happy to see you finally make the decision to dive in.

Welcome to the forum.

Mike A

Black_Moons
11-04-2014, 03:45 PM
Double check your manual -

"We recommend using ISO 68 or SAE 20W non-detergent machine oil" {emphasis added}

A bell went off when you said "20W gear" oil. I had never heard of a gear oil in that weight. So for hobby use, any quality non-detergent engine oil will do fine.

PS: Welcome to the forum!

ISO68 is what you find on hydraulic oil buckets :)
So yes, like all lathes, some quality *non detergent* motor oil (it will say non detergent in large letters on the bottle, if it does not say non detergent, IT HAS DETERGENTS!), or hydraulic oil (Hydraulic oil does not have detergents)

Detergents are what keep the crap in suspension so the oil filter can remove it. Lathes/mills don't generally have oil filter, they have sumps, so they want the crap to fall out of suspension into the sump.

MarkK
11-05-2014, 07:39 AM
My oil delivery from McMaster-Carr is "out for delivery" by UPS today -- MC is a great place IMO -- overnight delivery (I am only 200 miles from their warehouse) and things are almost always "in stock" and priced reasonably

Royldean
11-05-2014, 08:53 AM
I get SAME day delivery from McMaster! No extra cost, either....

MarkK
11-05-2014, 09:04 AM
yeah, when I was near Chicago I could get same day too

now in the driftless area of Wisconsin next day is unheard of

michigan doug
11-05-2014, 09:05 AM
I used a ShopTask combo machine for years. Combo machines are kind of a pain in the keester, but that will not stop you from doing a ton of interesting and excellent work.

I participate in a number of forums, and rank this one at the top for the quality of the brain trust.

Joe Rogers
11-05-2014, 01:13 PM
Plus no machine is considered off limits for discussion...
Joe

koda2
11-06-2014, 12:08 AM
Congratulations on getting a machine. A three in one is the bastard step child of the machining world and looked down on by some but don't let that attitude get you down. Any machine is better than none.

Even so, the reputation is somewhat deserved as the quality control and fit and finish in the early Chicom machines was awful.
Nonetheless, you can do some really good work if you learn all the workarounds.
I just hope your ShopFox is better than my old pos Smithy was (is).

You can go full-bore, over the top and put the best machining oil in your gearbox, something like this Royal Purple:
http://pages.suddenlink.net/wpahpff/RPsynfilm.jpg
Just remember, there are probably only a few simple gears in there that don't require anything more than lightweight motor oil and they turn at relatively low speeds. The spindle bearings may not even get oiled by the oil.

The best thing you can do is change the oil, flush the system to remove all the crud and casting sand from inside and put in some clean oil.
On my machine, anything higher than ISO 68 adds a bit of drag to the system.
Check your manual and schematics to see what is actually in there.
Dave A.

MarkK
11-06-2014, 06:23 AM
Thanks Dave

I went with Mobil Oil, DTE Machine Oil, ISO Grade 68, SAE Grade 20 from McMaster Carr

it is a non synthetic since the machine might sit idle for periods of time - I have read that synthetics lubricate better but don't stick to surfaces as well to help protect from corrosion

I was a cheap Craigs list 'bargain' -- came with lots of carbide tools -- probably a few hundred dollars worth and some other extras like boring bars

The seller did not mention that the forward/reverse switch was defective (it worked sometimes if you held it down -- an easy troubleshoot and repair for me)-- maybe that is why it was so cheap ($400 IIRC)


anyway it is a starter unit, it is sometimes better to start cheap so when you make mistakes, it is less expensive to repair

koda2
11-06-2014, 12:04 PM
anyway it is a starter unit, it is sometimes better to start cheap so when you make mistakes, it is less expensive to repair

Mark,
No apologies needed to me for your purchase. I bought a three in one machine and have made it work for me.
Get that baby up and running and let 'er rip.

The other controversy on these machines is what to use for lubricating the ways. Traditionally way oil, like Vactra #2 is used. Since the ways are usually not hardened on these machines some people have recommended just using detergent motor oil and wiping the ways frequently and re oiling. The thought being that the detergent keeps the wear particles in suspension until they are wiped away, with the result being ultimately less wear on the way surfaces. I have tried both and now use Vactra #2.
Dave A.

Alistair Hosie
11-06-2014, 02:37 PM
I was once told to use paraffin/kerosene to run through to clean up the gearbox and headstock.The idea being to let it run to get out all the old stuff that had been there for years.When clean and I am talking (squeaky BUT/BUM clean) .Then simply empty out where needed and refill with whatever oil is appropriate for your requirements, I.E. as directed by your manual, and also of course advice from good friends such as those to be found regularly here with Us old boys, but then what do I know? . I don't know much about the comment re using light engine oil. I am not sure on a good lathe if that is sound advice or not.To be honest I think it probably is , but hey what do I know LOL, anyway things have come on a long way with modern oils for machinery. Question is of course,Have I been told correctly re the paraffin Kerosene trick ? Again it sounds very plausible to me but then what do I know? LOL Alistair PS I will watch your responses to my words with vigor and aplomb ,Which is strict Queens English for Stick my old inquisitive,but well meant nose in from time to time.Your pal big Alistair

MarkK
11-07-2014, 06:53 AM
Thank you Dave and Alistair for your encouragement and sage advice

Now when that forward/reverse switch gets here from the UK I can start making metal chips

Rustybolt
11-07-2014, 08:50 PM
First post here

I must say this forum has some of the brightest people I have seen on the web -- I am looking forward to learning from you folks


That guy almost never shows up. We'll have to do.

darryl
11-07-2014, 09:55 PM
Of course, you'll want to do a few tests to see how the dial markings relate to actual measurements. I once checked out a similar machine and found a 'drunken stagger' in the relationship between the dial markings and the actual motion of the carriage, cross slide, and compound. They should be pretty good in terms of the spindle axis being parallel to the ways- but this should be checked out too.

The stagger I found relates to the quality of the lead screws that actuate the various motions. If those threads aren't turned accurately, then you can't use the dial markings to tell you how far you've moved the slide, etc.

There's lots more than this that you'll learn about the machine, but you should spend some time making test cuts and measuring, before making any parts that need to be accurate. It will lessen the frustrations during the learning curve.

MarkK
11-08-2014, 08:35 AM
Thanks for the advice

I need to get a lathe dog to align the tail stock to the spindle center

the manual directions are pretty clear for this but since no lathe dog was included with the tools when I bought it I doubt if it was ever done