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View Full Version : _ Remember that Greenerd No3 your neighbor tossed in the woods 30 years ago ?



iMisspell
12-20-2014, 07:01 PM
My father stopped by, seen one of them $125 12 ton hydraulic presses in my basement. We got talking and with a funny smile he's like i know where theres a Greenerd... i finished his sentence... "yeah... Tracy tossed one in the woods when i was a kid..."

So off to pop's house i whent.

Pops called the (new 15-18 yrs) neighbor, he said somewhere along the lines he pushed it into a hole and was back filling with yard clippings and dirt for some years. Neighbor pointed out a general area and i started to stab the ground with a piece 1/2 bar stock and... ding. Dug down deep enough to get a strap around it and pulled it out with a truck. Have a nice little project on my hands now and hopefully a working Arbor press down the lines.

Hand wheel broken off, counter weight broken off and bent bar. If i can get it all freed up and functioning, the counter weight seams like it will be the only thing which will be a pain.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Greenerd%20No%203%20Arbor%20Press/IMG_20141220_144514_596_zpsycncxtuu.jpg

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Greenerd%20No%203%20Arbor%20Press/IMG_20141220_144445_256_zps4m8rw78y.jpg

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Greenerd%20No%203%20Arbor%20Press/IMG_20141220_150035_466_zps3cb27292.jpg

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Greenerd%20No%203%20Arbor%20Press/IMG_20141220_172759_213_zps709367f9.jpg

alanganes
12-20-2014, 07:14 PM
Nice! Now there is a piece of equipment that will have a great story to go with it when you get it back it together!

lakeside53
12-20-2014, 07:25 PM
Drop it in a few gallons of evaporust for few days - it will probably start working without any forcing.

KiddZimaHater
12-20-2014, 07:29 PM
Ok. Now tell us the rest of the story.
WHY would someone dump a press into a hole and bury it?

iMisspell
12-20-2014, 08:08 PM
Nice! Not there is a piece of equipment that will have a great story to go with it when you get it back it together! Wish he reminded me years ago, hopwfully in the end it will be a happy story :)


Drop it in a few gallons of evaporust for few days - it will probably start working without any forcing.My fater had a 3/4 full jug, gonna do alittle wire wheel cleaning tomorrow and then fill up a spray bottle and go to town. Have some Aerokroil kickin around also.


Ok. Now tell us the rest of the story.
WHY would someone dump a press into a hole and bury it?Dont know why the original guy tossed it in the woods. As a kid, i can remember riding my dirt bike and quad back there and seeing it. The bar has always been bent, no idea about the handwheel or counter weight. The new neighbor said he pushed it in the hole when his kids where young to get it out of the way. Guess he had no use for it ?

lakeside53
12-20-2014, 08:26 PM
Spray bottle won't work well with Evaporust; it takes several hours to overnight, but will chase down the shaft and other enclosed areas. If you have limited quantities, use a small aquarium type pump to flow over the affected regions. Solution and item 90 -120F works well - heat with a light bulb or whatever. Keep your penetrating and other oils off the item until you are finished with ER.

caveBob
12-20-2014, 09:26 PM
... We got talking and with a funny smile he's like i know where theres a Greenerd... i finished his sentence... "yeah... Tracy tossed one in the woods when i was a kid..."

So off to pop's house i whent.


Now that's cool... best of luck with it, can't wait to see finished pics.

Dittos on what Lakeside said about using Evaporust, cover/flood completly. Heck, it would be worth picking up another gallon of it to add to what you have for this. If you have to, soak it on one side inside of a heavy duty plastic trash bag overnight, flip and repeat.

vpt
12-20-2014, 09:48 PM
Thats a cool story! Can't wait to see the resurrection!

the kid
12-21-2014, 08:48 AM
I'd say to hell with the evaporust, use electrolysis first, then start scrubbing at it and such, nice thing is you only need water, baking soda, a tank, and a battery charger, and some scrap iron you no longer need, no chemicals to deal with is a huge plus. Looking forward to seeing it brought back to life, cross your fingers the casting isn't cracked or something, remember it got tossed in the woods for a reason.

alanganes
12-21-2014, 09:15 AM
I somehow really like the fact that you can recall seeing this sitting in the woods when you were a kid.

Some guys have posted some pretty amazing resurrections of what looked to be rusted-beyond-recovery machines on here and other forums. The electrolytic derusting method seems to yield some amazing results for some people and as the kid points out, costs almost nothing.

Be cool to see this come back to life.

iMisspell
12-21-2014, 11:44 AM
Thanks for the suggestions and posts everyone.

Spent an hour and a half with a right angle grinder and sander/flap discs, got a majority of the heavy rust off it.
After that, seen 'the kids' post (thanks) and whent back out and did alittle "look over". Do not see any signs of cracks.

Gonna do alittle research about de-rusting. I do have a 50 gallon plastic drum. Because the way the lever arm is, it will not fit in the drum completely, but cutting the drum down along with lakeside53's pump suggestion, it might work. Or worst case, if i really want to completely submerge it, i could just hack off part of the bar (then weld and sleeve it later).
* As always, open for suggestions.

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Greenerd%20No%203%20Arbor%20Press/IMG_20141221_085717_429-01_zps0e97d2b9.jpg

http://i1284.photobucket.com/albums/a570/iMisspell/Greenerd%20No%203%20Arbor%20Press/IMG_20141221_103950_801-01_zps487e34d4.jpg

INTP
12-21-2014, 12:00 PM
Wow, sure looks better! I look forward to seeing it working.

Axkiker
12-21-2014, 12:22 PM
I would go with electrolysis at this point. Its a very easy and thorough process. You could use the drum you already have and not really be out any $$ other than baking soda.

If you have a good sized aquarium heater use it. The increased temp seems to speed the process.

If you have never tried this process it truly is amazing.

lakeside53
12-21-2014, 12:42 PM
Actually, I'd have done electrolysis before even using a flap sander, then Evaporust. Electrolysis is cheap and removes the bulk - it's just not good at chasing rust into obscured areas like shafts etc. Don't bother with ER in cold shop - heat it AND the item (takes a while fo a mass of cast iron) above 70F, and 80-105F is even better.

the kid
12-21-2014, 01:14 PM
I've done a lot of rust removal, and when I started using the electrolisis process I felt that is wasted most of my life using other methods, it's the best first step to take, I even use it to strip paint now, it does an excellent job of it. I hate sanding and wire wheels on rust, it seems that no matter what you do you always end up breathing some of that crap in, it gets everywhere, and it's just unpleasant all around. Now electrolisis is the first step for me on nearly any cleanup, rusty or not, usually all that's needed after is a quick wire brush and to get it dried and either oiled or painted.

bborr01
12-21-2014, 02:44 PM
I have a small Dake arbor press, I think it is a No. 0, that was given to me a few years ago. It had been used as a boat anchor and the guy who had it told me that if I wanted to load it in my truck it was mine.

I sandblasted it in my cabinet sandblaster and then the only problem was that the shaft that drives the press was very frozen into the press. I used a torch and heated it to dull red and then with about 15 minutes of wailing on it with a 4# hammer I got that apart too.

Then it was painted with some industrial enamel, which dried kind of dull. Later I gave it another coat of Rust Oleum industrial spray paint and it dried glossy like I was looking for. It comes in handy for light press jobs.

Brian

EddyCurr
12-21-2014, 03:05 PM
Electrolysis

Warning: hydrogen gas is a byproduct of electrolysis. Static,
spark or flame may ignite the gas if it is allowed to accumulate.

Baking soda or sodium bicarbonate in water has a pH of about 9,
a weakly alkaline solution. Arm & Hammer's "so clean! Super
Washing Soda" contains sodium carbonate (Na2CO3) - in water,
it produces a pH of about 11.

Although "so clean!" is a household laundry detergent, in my
community some store-to-store searching was necessary to
locate a stocking retailer.


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.25_RustBucket_11.jpg

A wide selection of totes and storage containers suitable for
electrolysis are available. The one below is a GSC TECHNOLOGIES
102L Strong Box from HD (Model: 292015-001 | Store SKU: 1000706729)


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.13_RustBucket_01.jpg

(Also pictured above are four 24" lengths of bare/uncoated
rebar fastened to two lengths of 2 x 2 and to each other
electrically with a length of bare baling or mechanic's wire.)

Suspending a rusty piece of 6 x 4 rectangle like this for a few
hours at 6 VDC. (Neg (-) terminal to the rusty work piece,
Pos (+) to the baling wire joining the pieces of rebar.)


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.13_RustBucket_02.jpg

Results in a transformation to this


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.14_RustBucket_03a.jpg

An excellent video:


Removing Rust with Electrolysis (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54ADeB6V1rQ)
by Lucas Peters
Wood (#210, 2012.03)

Warning: hydrogen gas is a byproduct of electrolysis. Static,
spark or flame may ignite the gas if it is allowed to accumulate.

.

EddyCurr
12-21-2014, 03:15 PM
In a few hours, this:


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.25_RustBucket_04.jpg

transforms to this


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.25_RustBucket_05.jpg

Those bearings were rusted in place before beginning electrolysis.
Afterwards, they were easily tapped off the ends of the shaft.


http://www.slalom4me.com/imaged_a01/jpg/other/rust/electrolysis/2014.09.25_RustBucket_06.jpg

.

hermetic
12-21-2014, 04:57 PM
You dug it up, that makes it a real "ressurection" job, More power to the electrolysis machine Igor!
Superb job so far, Can't wait to see it pressing. My brother has several of these he uses for punching and pressing.
Phil
UK

J. Randall
12-21-2014, 05:18 PM
If you decide to go the reverse electrolysis method and can't find washing soda, most places that have pool and spa chemicals will have sodium carbonate sold as a PH modifier.
James

Black_Moons
12-21-2014, 07:11 PM
Protip with evaporust, you can greatly reduce how much you need by wrapping the object in plastic to produce a 'form fitting' tank.

As for the handle. I would consider cutting it off, drilling it out and replacing with a bar held in by pins or set screws or something.

Hopefuldave
12-22-2014, 06:21 AM
Electrolysis tip 101, DON'T USE STAINLESS as the sacrificial anode - the.water turns yellow, the yellow is hexavalent chromium, known to be a potent liver, kidney and.nerve toxin - and it rates "Hazchem" and.requires disposal under your local toxic waste regulations....

Carbon rods for arc gouging / brazing work as well as scrap iron, I've found (good for anodising too) and.the tank stays clearer plus.they don't need the barnacles scraping off anywhere nearly as.often as iron rods.

I've given up on any other rust removal than electrolysis, unless either there are other metals (aluminium, brass, bronze) as part of.the Work, or I really don't care about the piece retaining finish, dimensional accuracy etc.

cameron
12-22-2014, 08:39 AM
I wouldn't put aluminum in the tank, because the solution is fairly strongly alkaline, but what about copper, brass and bronze?

I put the pressed steel case of a mechanical brake light switch in the tank. The case had two copper contacts, projecting both inside and outside the case, but electrically insulated from the case with bakelite spacers..

Luckily, I checked the activity after a few minutes. The copper was producing copious clouds of green corrosion products.

I made secure electrical connections between the copper and steel and rust removal proceeded normally, with no visible evidence of damage to the copper.

I'm fairly happy with the reason I concocted for this behavior, though it may not be correct.

EddyCurr
12-22-2014, 10:09 AM
Phosphoric acid is another worthy method of dealing with rust.
It does not attack the base metal and leaves a protective coating.

As has been mentioned, with electrolysis there are some DON'TS to observe

Do not use stainless material for anodes (+) - creates toxic solution
Do not have copper/brass/zinc objects or plated material in soln
Hydrogen leads to embrittlement of spring steel - must be 'cooked'
after derusting.

DO read lots more about electrolysis, especially before deviating
from the basics of using iron anodes & cathodes with a mild current.

Speaking of current. Although battery chargers have long been a
current source for electrolysis, suitable new ones are becoming
scarce. The so-called 'smart' chargers that are proliferating now
won't sense an appropriate connection and hence will not power
up, but these 'smart' chargers seem to have made their 'dumb'
fixed voltage/amperage output predecessors obsolete.

Last year, one of a few prospective chargers remaining was the
NAPA #85-210 12VDC 6A/2A. While these showed as discontinued
and a 'smart' model was listed as a substitution, a local distribution
warehouse happened to have remaining inventory of the #85-210.

.

lakeside53
12-22-2014, 11:46 AM
The best way to do electrolysis is with a constant current source. That way as the plates etc get dirty or the parts clean the voltage simply changes to compensate. There are many cheap power supply controllers available - ebay, amazon etc...

Here's one of my favorites (USA ship) - constant current or constant voltage, and protected. 20 amps, 1200w max with 60v input. Feed it just about any DC source 12-30 volts (or more) and you have a good power supply.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-DC-60V-20A-1200W-Constant-Voltage-Current-Regulated-Power-Supply-Module-Digit-/231375526735?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item35df0e5b4f

Rosco-P
12-22-2014, 12:41 PM
Speaking of current. Although battery chargers have long been a
current source for electrolysis, suitable new ones are becoming
scarce. The so-called 'smart' chargers that are proliferating now
won't sense an appropriate connection and hence will not power
up, but these 'smart' chargers seem to have made their 'dumb'
fixed voltage/amperage output predecessors obsolete.
.

Look for an old Schumacher 20A battery charger or similar at a tag sale. Little more to them except transformer, diodes, etc.

Norman Bain
12-22-2014, 03:13 PM
For a DC power source when doing the electrolysis thing I use an Inverter Welder with an old car Ammeter attached to the + wire. The welder provides a nice "knob" for adjusting the input current.

I would be interested in the forum's opinion as to the cost in electricity consumption of this approach.

Cheers,
Norman

cameron
12-22-2014, 05:13 PM
I may be short on facts, but I have plenty of opinions.

I think electrolysis costs less than equivalent results with any of the chemical methods, other than, perhaps, molasses.

lakeside53
12-22-2014, 07:13 PM
It does, but all methods have their advantages and disadvantages. I regularly use Electroysis, Evaporust and phosphoric acid depending on the needs, and sometimes all three on the same item!

tc429
12-23-2014, 12:07 AM
thats a cool old press- kudos for saving it :) we had one similar at work, they pitched it when i wasnt around...loved that thing. the guy overseeing machine building bought a 30 ton hydraulic press, things a piece of junk to use compared to the oldschool ratchet press...

some think anything old = junk, i disagree almost universally when it comes to tools/simple machines

varjag
12-24-2014, 04:07 PM
Nice! A true zombie of arbor presses :)

metalmagpie
12-24-2014, 04:31 PM
When you're all done, name that bad boy "Lazarus"!

Toolguy
12-24-2014, 06:06 PM
I wonder how an electric train control would work for derusting? I'm not very well versed in the electrical or electronics department.

macona
12-24-2014, 07:02 PM
Not enought current.

chucketn
12-24-2014, 08:03 PM
I wonder how an electric train control would work for derusting? I'm not very well versed in the electrical or electronics department.

I use an older 'dumb' auto battery charger. The new 'smart' ones don't work for this.

Chuck

Tundra Twin Track
12-26-2014, 12:47 PM
Thats a cool story! Can't wait to see the resurrection!

I use my Greenerd 3E all the time,one of those tools you don't know how you did without it!