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AD5MB
12-25-2014, 09:19 AM
a lot of thought and effort went into this totally goofy and totally cool thing:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD_yQZ4iNjY&feature=player_embedded

CarlByrns
12-25-2014, 09:27 AM
That is awesome! Thanks for the link!

alanganes
12-25-2014, 09:53 AM
Now that is awesome. I have to be impressed at how long those rockets burned for. These folks know how to have fun!

Lew Hartswick
12-25-2014, 12:26 PM
My old buddy George Blakeslee would have loved that. He was something of an expert on home made rockets / mortars / fireworks and just anything that would explode. RIP.
...lew...

Guido
12-25-2014, 12:58 PM
Played frac-master for a living back in the '60's with more than one going down, or up, about like the uTube guys. At least theirs was programmed from start to finish, gotta give 'em high credits.

Black Forest
12-25-2014, 02:15 PM
Played frac-master for a living back in the '60's with more than one going down, or up, about like the uTube guys. At least theirs was programmed from start to finish, gotta give 'em high credits.
Most on here won't know what a frac-master is. Why don't you explain.

A.K. Boomer
12-25-2014, 04:25 PM
For some reason i could not watch that earlier today,
but just got too and WOW that was one of the coolest things iv ever seen - bravo and well done just amazing...

SGW
12-25-2014, 04:41 PM
Now, that is really cool. I wonder what altitude it got to?

AD5MB
12-25-2014, 06:00 PM
apparently an annual thing in Thailand, the Thai Bamboo Rocket festival. the failures are amusing, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRQaXDafs_Y

http://q8allinone.com/2014/06/bamboo-rocket-festival-in-thailand.html

Old Hat
12-25-2014, 07:51 PM
I can't quit watching this! I just CAN'T !

The first vid

A.K. Boomer
12-25-2014, 08:45 PM
I can't quit watching this! I just CAN'T !

The first vid


its the little things in life that count - I was quarantined from family (by my own choice) and a 24lb bird and these vids actually made my X-mas,,, thanks AD5MB it's just what the doctor ordered... :)

Old Hat
12-25-2014, 08:57 PM
its the little things in life that count - I was quarantined from family (by my own choice) and a 24lb bird and these vids actually made my X-mas,,, thanks AD5MB it's just what the doctor ordered... :)

Still quarantined?
watch Harry Brown with Michael Caine... a little British and slow off the line.
But then . . . Wow!

A.K. Boomer
12-25-2014, 09:15 PM
Im curious if anybodies ever climb cutted on their RT table with the worm gear free floating to create an automatic self propulsion feed system??? any old timers? :)

Norman Bain
12-26-2014, 05:04 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRQaXDafs_Y


Super interesting ... such an event would never get "off the ground" in Australia.

I see very near the end of this video that the team players are covering each other in mud ... might be for home spun custom-fit fire protection suits.

Cheers,
Norman

Axkiker
12-26-2014, 05:18 PM
That is awesome and now want to build one

darryl
12-26-2014, 06:12 PM
pretty cool. I watched it a few times, then watched the failures also. Entertaining.

Then I thought- why not build a similar thing as a bottle rocket? You could use small diameter, thinwall pvc pipe as a framework, multiple 2L bottles as engines- you would add water through the framework until each bottle is mostly full, then switch to air until there's 100 psi or so. Each nozzle would be plugged and each plug could be pulled by a string, and you might have a central pipe as a stand. At launch time, you rotate the thing on the stand, all the strings would wind up and pull the plugs at the same time.

Something like that anyway.

AD5MB
12-26-2014, 08:05 PM
you would need either a vast dry lake, or a vast body of water and use rocket fuel that biodegrades into healthy fish food and construct it of materials that form fish habitats that protect the purty fish from the icky predator fish and...

you would need a vast dry lake

tyrone shewlaces
12-26-2014, 09:18 PM
Is it just me, or does it seem that there should be some kind of mandatory payload like a squirrel, rabbit or at least a grasshopper to really commit to a vehicle like that? I don't want anything living to be hurt, but seems like it would have been an exciting ride for a critter.

A.K. Boomer
12-26-2014, 09:44 PM
I do see some issues with design in some of these things - it seems like there still in the infancy of experimenting with thrust angles and that surprises me the most...

there are examples of too much of a bite and too little,,, some spinning wildly and some not much at all

Spin is stability, but it takes away from lift, too much lift and your taking away from stability,,, im also seeing set angles for all rockets regardless of there mounting position to the center,,,

here's how it should go for the best results;

rockets mounted farthest from the hub that are closest to the outer parameter should have the calculated angle to take care of most all the spin,,, this is after all the highest leverage area to create spin,,, it's also the highest leverage area to create deviation in the disc if it's just used for lift due to the variances in rocket thrusts,,, so it's a win win to give most all of it up to whatever is needed for spin in this area...

then as you move closer to the center the angle of attack is cut drastically down,,,, by the time you get close to the center of your hub your rockets should be dedicated to pure thrust - maybe just an ever so slight angle as this is the slowest moving area and is really not going to interfere with thrust vectors --- this is also the most stable area to apply upward thrust without tipping the unit funky with rockets of different power output and as we've witnessed that can be a problemo...

that first one in the vid all by itself was breathtaking to watch,,, your not going to get a whole lot better than that but this is after all a competition so why not tweak it all the way...

I would also throw in two different colors of smoke for both sides so the double helix is even more impressive to see... just my two cents...

Tundra Twin Track
12-26-2014, 10:02 PM
That Was Very Cool thanks for Link! Have to watch again!!!

Forrest Addy
12-26-2014, 10:18 PM
Coolest group nonsense I've ever seen

Evan
12-26-2014, 10:40 PM
Amazing! The stability is surprising. It must of course be the gyroscopic effect. The lift is mostly generated by the simple fact it is a helicopter. The blades hold the rocket motors and are set at about a 15 degree angle of attack, just about right to produce lift without stalling.

darryl
12-27-2014, 02:12 AM
I need to revise my design- instead of water it should be gasoline. Which of course needs to be ignited at some point. And yes, everybody run- run away, far far away

thaiguzzi
12-27-2014, 02:34 AM
apparently an annual thing in Thailand, the Thai Bamboo Rocket festival. the failures are amusing, too:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRQaXDafs_Y

http://q8allinone.com/2014/06/bamboo-rocket-festival-in-thailand.html

The biggest rocket festival in Thailand is in Yasothon. The 2nd biggest is in Phen. Phen is 45kms from my house and another 40kms to the Mighty Mekong river and the border with Laos. All the major rocket festivals are held in NE Thailand (known as Isaan) around the middle of May each year. Originally done as a fertility thing for the rockets to "fertilise" the clouds and bring rain for the oncoming rainy season May- Oct. Now generally just a huge, and i mean HUGE piss-up, party, dancing girls, fairs and rides, concerts, gambling on the highest and straightest flight path (gambling is illegal, but hey, who gives a **** about what Bangkok says out in the boondocks). A 3 day long MAD, out of control drunk mayhem party. Deaths every year due to rockets crashing where they are not supposed to etc etc. The Phen one attracts approx 200,000 people per day, i've been a couple of times, and it is spectacular. If you like danger, chaos, anarchy, bedlam, drinking excessive alcohol in excessive heat, you'll love a NE Thai rocket festival.
Highly recommended.

thaiguzzi
12-27-2014, 02:45 AM
Every district and every major town will have a rocket festival in NE Thailand in mid May. I still go to the smaller local ones, but the Phen one is just too large, and too over the top. Rockets are hand made locally from blue PVC plumbing pipe, as short as 3 meters long, and as long as 12 meters long. Diameters are as small as 2", and as big as 12". Each village will have their favorite expert and his preferred gunpowder mixture. At the Phen festival, there is a 10,000 baht ($300) rocket going off every 10 minutes all day. Every hour a 100,000 baht ($3000 odd) rocket goes off. At the end of the afternoon, the big one goes off; 1 million baht (yeah right $30k bucks!). Seeing is believing, and it helps to constantly have a cold one in the hand.
Mike.

thaiguzzi
12-27-2014, 02:48 AM
One more thing; commercial flights (yeah, domestic airliners) have to alter their flight paths during this period. That is how high some of the rockets can reach.

vpt
12-27-2014, 10:42 AM
I do see some issues with design in some of these things - it seems like there still in the infancy of experimenting with thrust angles and that surprises me the most...

there are examples of too much of a bite and too little,,, some spinning wildly and some not much at all

Spin is stability, but it takes away from lift, too much lift and your taking away from stability,,, im also seeing set angles for all rockets regardless of there mounting position to the center,,,

here's how it should go for the best results;

rockets mounted farthest from the hub that are closest to the outer parameter should have the calculated angle to take care of most all the spin,,, this is after all the highest leverage area to create spin,,, it's also the highest leverage area to create deviation in the disc if it's just used for lift due to the variances in rocket thrusts,,, so it's a win win to give most all of it up to whatever is needed for spin in this area...

then as you move closer to the center the angle of attack is cut drastically down,,,, by the time you get close to the center of your hub your rockets should be dedicated to pure thrust - maybe just an ever so slight angle as this is the slowest moving area and is really not going to interfere with thrust vectors --- this is also the most stable area to apply upward thrust without tipping the unit funky with rockets of different power output and as we've witnessed that can be a problemo...

that first one in the vid all by itself was breathtaking to watch,,, your not going to get a whole lot better than that but this is after all a competition so why not tweak it all the way...

I would also throw in two different colors of smoke for both sides so the double helix is even more impressive to see... just my two cents...



If the center "pole" that holds all the rockets were shaped like a wing (or helicopter) blades to help lift while spinning than spinning faster could be a good thing.

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 10:50 AM
It's true VPT and it would also be self regulating of sorts, but I do not believe that's the case due to some of them spinning like crazy and either never getting off the ground or going up a little then sinking like mad...

Not to say it would not be a great option to try as I think it would be a neat experiment,,,

I would also like to see a tri-spoke for some reason,,, just think it would look very cool also, might be hard to coordinate the lighting though...

learning about how big these festivals are does surprise me there not using two different colors in the smoke too, that really would look amazing,,,
really does make you want to build one of your own...

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 10:58 AM
i have a bunch of bottle rockets left over from the fourth but every launch is going to end up in death and destruction of the flight unit due to the "repeat" lol

vpt
12-27-2014, 11:29 AM
I have a bunch of bottle rockets from 4th of july like 3 years ago. I found the good ones on sale for cheap and bought all kinds of bricks of them. lol

Although the ones I have wouldn't work very well, they don't have allot of propellent but do pack a pretty good pop.

I could see us getting into all kinds of trouble if we lived next to each other.

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 12:23 PM
I could see us getting into all kinds of trouble if we lived next to each other.

You have to think about all the fun that would be had though before that proverbial eye gets lost... :p

Evan
12-27-2014, 12:31 PM
The one in the video does have a helicopter blade in it. That is why it flies so well. Rockets don't fly like that because they can't.


http://ixian.ca/pics11/rocketchopper.jpg

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 12:44 PM
good eye Evan and it's also a CW rotating one and the angle is about right...

yes could be why that one is so successful,,

I just can't get over the incredible "steam train" sound of that first one. awesome...

Evan
12-27-2014, 01:07 PM
I has to be a helicopter because of how it flies. Anything being mainly lifted on rocket thrust alone would accelerate more as the weight of the fuel goes down with consumption. Also, with those sorts of rockets and most solid fuel rockets in general the acceleration accelerates as it burns because more open fuel burning surface is exposed along the length of the core. In one of these contraptions that will make it spin somewhat faster but not that much because drag goes up as a second order function (not linear, goes up as the square of velocity). The drag will increase even faster to strictly limit the rotation when the rotor wings stall at speed. The entire device, if well designed, is nicely self limiting for the use of rotary rocket power. They gotta get it just right though.

These aren't the first rocket powered rotary wing aircraft though. Bell made one. Here is a patent on one from 1984:

http://www.google.com/patents/US4473199

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 01:10 PM
I think it might help, but I by far think it's not the prime mover,,, to realize this watch the video when the rockets run out of steam at the end yet the unit is still in almost full rotation speed --- it drops like a rock...

Evan
12-27-2014, 01:17 PM
While we are on this subject, here is a very interesting looking rocket powered personal helicopter:

http://makezine.com/2010/03/17/helicopter-with-hydrogen-peroxide-r/

" it drops like a rock..."

The wings were in full stall because of the massive increase in thrust just before the fuel runs out.

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 01:24 PM
that does not compute to me, if there was a massive increase in thrust just before the fuel runs out that would directly equate to increased rotational speed...

Evan
12-27-2014, 01:27 PM
I built a lot of rockets when I was young and even not so young. They weren't all Estes powered either...

Evan
12-27-2014, 01:31 PM
"that does not compute to me, if there was a massive increase in thrust just before the fuel runs out that would directly equate to increased rotational speed..."

No. The drag goes up dramatically when the wings stall and it is highly non-linear. Even so, if you read what I wrote above, drag goes up as the square of velocity (of rotation). When the wings are stalled then the drag goes up by another factor, probably at least the cube of rotation velocity.

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 01:46 PM
the rocket engines are the power source - in order for the engines to create lift with the wings they would actually have to be on more of a horizontal plane than the wings themselves and they are not,

they are actually at a very mild attack angle like you first stated,,, this means they will be pushing against the wing not with it, this also means that the wings do not create lift but instead help with rotation...

Evan
12-27-2014, 01:52 PM
Yes, they are the power source. They are not the primary source of lift.

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 01:59 PM
We can agree to disagree, I won't push things like I used to with you, we need a cut-off point, i always thought we might be taking it too far for your health conditions and was paying attention in your one post of how it does matter,,,

It's all good Evan im just very happy to see you back posting and also for your great input on stuff :)

Evan
12-27-2014, 02:04 PM
I did some looking up on those festival rockets. Some are indeed supported by mainly by rocket thrust but not the one in the linked video. That may well be a special trick up their sleeve that results in much better performance, which it will.

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 02:06 PM
Either way it's a level of refinement that's spectacular...

and does it not sound like a steam engine to you? chugging it's way up into the sky,,, ?

darryl
12-27-2014, 02:50 PM
I have another take on the whole thing- speaking of steam- you do the bottle rocket thing with water, as usual, but then you have a thermite reaction at each nozzle. Voila- steam, and increased thrust, as well as a spectacular self-destructive effect :)

But then I'm distracting from the whole festival thing- sure, I'd love to attend such a wild 'open ended' event. Sounds like a lot of fun. They obviously know how to party over there-

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 02:51 PM
this is more of a start to finish and just round tube so the only rotational and lift factor is the engines themselves

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JuysJjAw12s

A.K. Boomer
12-27-2014, 02:53 PM
darryl now your cookin,,, that would produce one long ride too...