PDA

View Full Version : OT: Enron, Power crisis.. caught on tape, Poor Cali..



ibewgypsie
06-02-2004, 09:24 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/06/01/eveningnews/main620626.shtml

Just read it before going off.. It ain't pretty.

Forwarded by a Union electrican - A Lineman in Northern california working for Edison power. He has worked for the same company since he was young, he is now 52.. got another 13 years to retire, now reduced to traveling the state even with his senoirity.

David

David

BillH
06-02-2004, 10:38 PM
Well, its not as bad as Boeing chearing when an airplane crashed, it meant more orders for them.
I really do hope my Uncle was joking about that...

CCWKen
06-03-2004, 12:58 AM
They sould do what SA did with the "accused" organizers of a recent terrorist attack. They took them out into the desert and shot 'em in the head.

Better yet, take everything they have and put 'em in prison 'til they're 75. Let em out to live on Social Security payments.



[This message has been edited by CCWKen (edited 06-03-2004).]

Rich Carlstedt
06-03-2004, 01:01 AM
Dave
I would love to be on the jury in that trial !
We hear stuff about these guys and it winds up a plea agreement with the Lawyers..too bad.
Anyone in a public trust position needs to have their feet held to the fire for their conduct..

Evan
06-03-2004, 03:09 AM
I can't remember the name of the guy who was fined something like 100 million back in the 80's for insider trading etc. He said something like "Greed isn't the main thing, it's the only thing".

wierdscience
06-03-2004, 08:55 AM
On the flip side thats also what happens when you refuse to build power plants(aka KALIFORNIA)you have to buy it from somebody else,they have you by the short hairs too.

lunkenheimer
06-03-2004, 12:03 PM
Sorry, I don't buy that. Not building new plants is a problem but has nothing to do with intentionally shutting down existing ones during peak demand periods to jack prices.

Rich Carlstedt
06-03-2004, 12:28 PM
Weird has an excellent point..
If you "depend" on "others" to do your bidding..you may get caught..Precilla,John Alden and John Smith will tell you that (historical reference here !)

I was told by the President of a company I worked for (when I asked to expand the shop, as we could only make 40% of our product)

" NO, The only reason we have a manufacturing facility here is to keep our Vendors Honest"

I think "he" should have been Kalifornias Gov !

Good point Weird !

ibewgypsie
06-03-2004, 12:54 PM
What my opinion is? When the judges favored the private corporations who sued the utility companies because they could not compete selling power cause they didn't own power plants. (ie: didn't have investments)

The judge should have been hanged in the courthouse square. (California was first) Tva has had similar lawsuits..

Sue someone cause they have more resources than you?

Every individual affected should sue everyone involved in this scandal, take everything they own. Put the utility under a co-op rule with open books to all. IT Is a public service, not a skin the masses opportunity.

Crooked judges and attorneys (where judges come from) should be ran out of our country. Forced out, ran out of the courthouse, stoned, hanged, kicked, abused, throttled, bankrupted, and hated by the masses instead of tolerated. I get that sick feeling everytime I go to the courthouse. Metal detectors cause they are scared...... And they should be..

I need to go turn on a lightswitch, run my machines, as long as I can afford to... (get a cold beer)..

David

wierdscience
06-03-2004, 09:06 PM
Luke,I disagree,Kalifornia made the climate so inhospitable for anyone wanting to build a new plant or upgrade their old one that the supply didn't keep pace with the demand,when that happens in a FREE market situation the prices will spike all by themselves,its simple economics 101.

Now as far as gouging and crooked deals go,the utilites have been doing that for 90 years under full licence from the federal government.Higher rates during peak demand hours,demand meters and outrageous connect fees charged to industry,BUT just to industry,not Joe Sixpack,he gets a refund check($10.00)so they the utility can be seen as "honest all the day long"

No round here it still goes on and probibly will forever,imagine what would happen if small business and cottage industries could suddenly afford three phase?What if you could get it for less than the
$15,000 it costs minimum now?

John Garner
06-03-2004, 10:24 PM
ibewgypsie and Company --

As a long-term resident of California (born here in 1952 but lived elsewhere for 10 of my first 30 years), I think that my State government is doing exactly what magicians do . . . trying to focus the audience's attention elsewhere.

The not-in-my-backyard mindset of many Californians certainly has contributed to The Electricity Problem, but I consider the greater factors to be A) the Legislature's action keeping retail price controls on electricity while de-regulating wholesale prices and B) the PUC requiring the utility companies to sell-off the greater portion of their own generating capacity while simultaneously prohibiting long-term fixed-price contracts for the output of those plants.

It really shouldn't take much more than a kindergarten education to see that fixing the retail price of a product without fixing the wholesale price is a good way to fornicate a market.

What do you think would happen if the Legislature capped the grocery-store price of steaks at $1 a pound without capping lower-level prices? Well, judging by their foresight with the Electricity issue, apparently the vast majority of our Legislators would think that we could all be eating steaks every night.

The funniest thing? That we have a fair assortment of "special interest groups" that want to apply the same formulae to assure that we all have plenty of Gasoline, Health Care, and Education . . . and almost all of these groups argue that The Electricity Problem illustrates the folly of a free market.

These groups and their allies can't afford for John Q Public to see that the real cause of The Electricity Problem (and its Gasoline, etc. brothers) is urine-poor central planning. So they scream loud and long about the Evil Capitalists Who Rig The Game.

Yes, these Evil (and apparently Stupid) Capitalists cut power production during periods of high demand to jack up prices . . . but is that really different than the County Supervisors cutting Police Departments, Fire Departments, Libraries and Parks as their first response to lower-than-desired tax revenues?

John

charlie coghill
06-03-2004, 10:57 PM
Cut the fire dept and police when tax revenues don't match their expections, when John Q public doesn't go for that they start cuttine school classes and school days. John Q public still does not fall for that and does not pass a tax bill. All of a sudden they find a couple of million dollars they did not know they had.

Now in the H--- do you loose a million dollars? Does not some one check the books? John Q Public feels that the Politians have been lieing to him and guess what happens next time.

Just think of every thing that needs a permit to accomplish a task. Like running a service to your shop. Why does it cost a $1000 for that permit. They tell you that the permit is to make sure the job is safe. Bull it is a revenue generator for the politians. I'm done.
Charlie

wierdscience
06-04-2004, 08:31 AM
Right on Charlie,most of that permit crap here is just that,now a days here you must have a "efluent permit" before the power company will hook you up,okay then they kindly refer you to a local company(read brother in law)who just so happens does and inspection($500.00)to make sure your s--- still runs down hill.Then you can get your lights on right?Nope,got to have all that wiring inspected(got two sisters you know)okay another ($500.00).All that said done and over with then you pay $150 to the light company and in a week to ten days they flip the switch.

Now,it does not mean that your efluent and electrical inspector know anything or even show up,just that they can make salary and still have some left over for the general fund.

Plus all this so they are sure and sign up every square inch of your real estate for property taxes(property taxes=licence to steal issued by politicians,you really don't own anything,you just rent it from the government-see past rants)

Then we have the school board,all knowing all seeing all powerful can increase millage rates every year and for any amount they see fit and it never goes before the people in the form of a vote.They are our kings mind you.The last excuse for raising the mill 5 points last year and floating bonds as far as the eye can see is that they needed more money for teachers,computers,class rooms,desks ohh it will be soo wonderful and great all your kids will go on to college and be doctors and lawyers and and..........bull s---!No teachers where hired,no computers(aren't needed anyway)the desks can be fixed again,but we did build a new gym,and we did build a new stadium(read stucco clad,concrete coluseum worth of Nero mind you,he needs to fiddle while Rome burns you see)and proudly if by some accident a few of the kids get out of school and do make it to college they can move away to somewhere else that pays better because people here are poor and uneducated and don't make enough money to pay their taxes to have a decent school that actually educates their kids.Rant mode off.