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rray
01-28-2015, 04:46 PM
I have seen many guides and opinions about grinding hss bits. Does it damage the bit if you grind it hard, till it is red hot? Does hss "lose it's temper"?

EddyCurr
01-28-2015, 05:13 PM
My vote is no, but if the red hot tool bit is subsequently plunged
into water, this will lead to issues that tend to shorten the tool
life.

An aluminum oxide wheel intended for use with HSS will contribute
to lower temperatures while grinding.

What wheel type are you presently working with ?

.

firbikrhd1
01-28-2015, 05:23 PM
Although I have not seen it I have read that quenching in water from extreme temperatures will cause "micro cracks" along the cutting edge resulting in early breakdown of the edge. I have also read that HSS can be run red hot, however when it is it never is subjected to the sudden temperature changes that quenching imparts. As a HSM I have never had the need to run anything to the point of red while machining. If production were an issue I would probably be using carbide.

For insurance, why not just grind it until you can no longer hold it, quench and grind again. It doesn't add that much time to tool grinding and also gives you and opportunity to look closely at the shape and adjust as necessary during the next grinding cycle.

lane
01-28-2015, 05:24 PM
No red hot does not hurt it . That is why it is called High speed tool steel.

rray
01-28-2015, 05:30 PM
My vote is no, but if the red hot tool bit is subsequently plunged
into water, this will lead to issues that tend to shorten the tool
life.

An aluminum oxide wheel intended for use with HSS will contribute
to lower temperatures while grinding.

What wheel type are you presently working with ?

.

I am using aluminum oxide wheels. I ask because I needed a bit to cut a groove for a small snapring and the grind and quench method took a painfully long time.

EddyCurr
01-28-2015, 05:37 PM
I am using aluminum oxide wheels. I ask because I needed
a bit to cut a groove for a small snapring and the grind and quench
method took a painfully long time.White aluminum oxide?

How coarse?

Do you periodically dress the wheel with a diamond dressing tool?

.

Black_Moons
01-28-2015, 05:51 PM
Red hot??? I think you are thinking of carbide. Iv read to never let HSS get hotter then you can hold while grinding as if you do the tip is nodoubt way past annealing temp. ie never let it even blue from grinding if you can avoid it. when cutting steel you don't want the chips to go any hotter then straw yellow (very light yellow, tint of gold)

HSS blanks come in pre-hard for a reason, annealed HSS is not very hard, you just never see it because its exceptionally difficult to heat treat so you either buy it pre-hard or buy easier to heat treat tool steels.

mars-red
01-28-2015, 07:20 PM
Red hot??? I think you are thinking of carbide. Iv read to never let HSS get hotter then you can hold while grinding as if you do the tip is nodoubt way past annealing temp. ie never let it even blue from grinding if you can avoid it. when cutting steel you don't want the chips to go any hotter then straw yellow (very light yellow, tint of gold)

HSS blanks come in pre-hard for a reason, annealed HSS is not very hard, you just never see it because its exceptionally difficult to heat treat so you either buy it pre-hard or buy easier to heat treat tool steels.

Your second paragraph is correct, but as far as your first, you're thinking of regular carbon tool steel. As has been stated, HSS retains its hardness up into red hot temps.

dp
01-28-2015, 09:17 PM
Maybe everything everyone should know about HSS grinding or maybe just a bunch of opinion.

http://yarchive.net/metal/hss_grinding.html

The guy doing the writing is pretty sure everyone who agrees with him is right and everyone else is wrong which is probably not a convincing way to make a point. Regardless, the point is pretty well beat home.

Black_Moons
01-28-2015, 09:21 PM
Your second paragraph is correct, but as far as your first, you're thinking of regular carbon tool steel. As has been stated, HSS retains its hardness up into red hot temps.

*does some checking*
Interesting, it seems HSS does not loose much hardness to annealing till 1200f (Dull red)
http://buffaloprecision.com/data_sheets/dsm2hs.htm
I will have to remember that next time I grind HSS to not care about it blueing, just try not to make the cutting edges glow much :)

mattthemuppet
01-28-2015, 09:22 PM
I dip the non-cutting end of the blank into a small jar of water to cool it down. After doing a lot of grinding, that water is going to be fairly warm and so I can't see it being much of an issue although I doubt I use my cutters hard enough to show up any problems anyway!

kf2qd
01-28-2015, 09:54 PM
Unless you are using a bit with cobalt I would expect that the color change will also indicate removal of temper. Cobalt bits will maintain their hardness at higher temperatures.

Lew Hartswick
01-28-2015, 09:58 PM
Maybe everything everyone should know about HSS grinding or maybe just a bunch of opinion.

http://yarchive.net/metal/hss_grinding.html.

Boy does that bring back memories. I remember Ed from RCM which I read religiously for years. It became WAY to much OT and particularly political so haven't been there for years .
...lew...

SGW
01-28-2015, 10:07 PM
As I understand it, you have to work pretty hard to anneal HSS. You need a programmable oven and a very specific heating/cooling curve to accomplish it.

As far as grinding... I use silicon carbide "green wheels." I know they're allegedly the wrong kind for grinding HSS, and they wear relatively fast, but I find they run a lot cooler and cut well. And given the amount of grinding I do sharpening toolbits, the wear rate isn't an important issue.

CalM
01-28-2015, 10:08 PM
I am using aluminum oxide wheels. I ask because I needed a bit to cut a groove for a small snapring and the grind and quench method took a painfully long time.

If you have a dremel tool or die grinder, cut out "squares" with the cut wheel instead of grinding away all that material. Much faster

Willy
01-28-2015, 10:51 PM
I am using aluminum oxide wheels. I ask because I needed a bit to cut a groove for a small snapring and the grind and quench method took a painfully long time.

How big is the HSS tool bit 1/8",1/4",5/16" etc.?
I've seen some take down a 3/8"-1/2" bit to .030"-.050" to cut a groove. This can be a tedious chore not to mention wasteful.

LKeithR
01-28-2015, 11:33 PM
How big is the HSS tool bit 1/8",1/4",5/16" etc.?
I've seen some take down a 3/8"-1/2" bit to .030"-.050" to cut a groove. This can be a tedious chore not to mention wasteful.

Yeah, do yourself a favour and go buy a good insert type grooving and parting tool. Life will be soooo much better! I don't have the time to waste grinding HSS--haven't used it, except for some very special jobs, for years...

J Tiers
01-29-2015, 12:11 AM
One of the properties of HSS, which varies with exact alloy, is "red hardness". meaning it can continue to cut when red hot, depending of course on material.

That said, you probably should NOT expect to see the tool red during use. The edge is the part that gets red hot before you realize it... so the rest of the tool would not be red hot even when the "red hardness" is being used.

There is no point to letting the thing get red hot when grinding, because again, the part that is in contact with the wheel will be considerably hotter than the mass of it. That means it might be hot enough to be a problem.

As for the temper colors, they occur at a low enough temperature that HSS won't be a problem if it shows anything below blue, probably. When cutting with it, blue back on the body may mean the edge got hot enough to begin to wear severely.

JRouche
01-29-2015, 12:47 AM
I have seen many guides and opinions about grinding hss bits. Does it damage the bit if you grind it hard, till it is red hot? Does HSS "lose it's temper"?

Hey Ray.. Like most folks have already said. You wont heat the HSS up to a point where it degrades the bit from hand grinding it. It will become to hot to handle before you hurt it.

Here is a bunch of videos that has been recently posted that shows the heating HSS and other types of lathe cutting tools can take before they become damaged.

They take many types of tool bits to destruction. Too many to watch to see the ending of some bits (tantung 144). But it will give you a basic idea of how far HSS can be heated. Its kinda interesting, dont know what kind of machine can do this, it doesnt look like a constant feed rate. Not sure. Crazy what folks will do in the name of.... JR

https://www.youtube.com/user/WeCra****/videos

Mike Burdick
01-29-2015, 01:36 AM
For grinding HSS tool bits I use a soft bond aluminum oxide wheel that is very friable. This translates to fast and cool cuts. I'm getting old and impatient so the fast part is what I like best!

Arthur.Marks
01-29-2015, 02:16 AM
Actual wheel technical designation, please, Mike?

J Tiers
01-29-2015, 08:06 AM
.................

Here is a bunch of videos that has been recently posted ...............

https://www.youtube.com/user/WeCra****/videos

I get a "this channel does not exist" error from that link.

vpt
01-29-2015, 08:24 AM
I as well try to keep hss from turning blue or red while grinding. They seem to hold up better when kept cool, at least to me.

Puckdropper
01-29-2015, 08:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/user/WeCra****/videosI get a "this channel does not exist" error from that link.

Change the text so it spells out "We Crash It" without any spaces. (Instead of WeCra****.) Looks like an overzealous word filter got in the way.

rray
01-29-2015, 09:14 AM
As I figured, opinions are all over the place. I am a beginner and this was the first time I needed a grooving tool. All I had at the time was 1/4" square blanks. I needed 0.035". I did not think of the Dremel to cut chunks. I have one and that is what I use to cut them to length. How about url for silicon carbide "green wheels." and soft bond aluminum oxide wheel. I'm just learning.

loose nut
01-29-2015, 09:40 AM
It isn't just the tip that gets hot.

- If you can hold onto a bit with a red hot tip then you are probably man enough to just gnaw the metal off with your teeth and don't need a tool bit.

-Your other option is to dunk the tool every time it start to feel a little warm and then you don't have to worry about damaging the bit.

I'd go with option 2.

EddyCurr
01-29-2015, 10:54 AM
As I figured, opinions are all over the place.No, opinions are not all over the place. Aside
from a few outliers, there is a consensus.

"Does it damage [an HSS tool] bit if you grind it hard, till it is red hot?"
No.
.
Just the same, people avoid heating to red hot because:
this makes the tool bit unpleasant to work with;
quenching a red hot bit can cause metal fracture problems
with an appropriate wheel composition that has
been dressed to remove glazing and expose
sharp cutting facets, metal removal proceeds
with minimal heat build-up.

"I am using aluminum oxide wheels."
Gray (and brown) aluminum oxide wheels are intended for
general purpose use on mild steel. White aluminum oxide
wheels are specifically formulated for HSS.
.
It is easy for an interested party to locate product
information published by Norton, Camel (CGW) and
other grinding media vendors. For the HSM, not much
has changed in decades - the following 71 yo article
is as relevant today as it was in 1944:
.

Grinding Wheel (https://books.google.ca/books?id=gN8DAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=norton+dressing+a+grinding+wheel&source=bl&ots=yAO02ivmAB&sig=jnRnB1zqtKQJ0JqE4a_rtwN4OUU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=WmfJVKH4GsyPyATztIFI&ved=0CD8Q6AEwBDge#v=onepage&q=norton%20dressing%20a%20grinding%20wheel&f=false) by Sam Brown (Popular Mechanics 1944/12)
.
SGW:"I use silicon carbide "green wheels. I know they're
allegedly the wrong kind for grinding HSS, and they
wear relatively fast, but I find they run a lot cooler
and cut well"
.
SGW's results from using green silicon carbide on HSS
are not the norm.
A review of recommended applications will show that
the intended use is for "grinding gray iron, chilled iron,
brass, soft bronze and aluminum, as well as stone,
rubber and other non-ferrous materials."
.

Choosing the Right Grinding Wheel (http://www.mmsonline.com/articles/choosing-the-right-grinding-wheel) Modern Machine Shop (2000.12.15)
.
While not included in the quote above, carbide tool
bits are ground with the green silicon carbide wheels.
.
To generalize, most abrasives will probably abrade a.
material. The right abrasive will do this more efficiently.

Lastly. Do not overlook the importance of dressing a
wheel. It is akin to sharpening a dull knife, with similar
improvements in results. (I mentioned using a diamond
in a previous post, this is not the only tool for wheel
dressing.)

.

Black_Moons
01-29-2015, 11:00 AM
How big is the HSS tool bit 1/8",1/4",5/16" etc.?
I've seen some take down a 3/8"-1/2" bit to .030"-.050" to cut a groove. This can be a tedious chore not to mention wasteful.

Guilty of that here. I actually ended up buying some rectangular bits (1/2" x 1/4") and some extra cutoff blades for next time I feel the need to do that so I don't have to grind so much.

Note I have 1/4" HSS bits, but I don't trust a 1/4 x 0.02" bit! I trust a 1/2" x 0.02" bit MUCH more. Plus 1/2 x 0.02" bit can use the same shims/toolholders as any of my other 1/2" HSS bits.

Of course, I only grind back the 0.02" part about 1/2", far enough that I can be sure enough the sides are somewhat flat (well, relieved actually) for however deep I wanna cut.

Evan
01-29-2015, 11:14 AM
Identifying aluminium oxide wheel types by colour only applies within a brand. White, blue, pink etc. means nothing when comparing brands. The colour is from a dye used in making the wheels and there are no standards what the colours mean. Each manufacturer uses what ever colour they want to identify their wheels.

If the HSS you grind is getting red hot then you have the wrong wheel type. The general rule is that the harder the cutting alloy the softer the wheel should be. That also means the faster the wheel will cut and wear. It needs to wear in order to expose fresh granules with nice sharp edges. This prevents heat buildup and promotes fast cutting. Regardless of what you are grinding, if it takes a long time you aren't using the correct grinding material or wheel.

I speak from experience as my wife sells grinding wheels of all types and I have a nice collection of all of them. Grinding wheels are a consumable and for some jobs cannot be expected to last long. It is also an area where quality does matter and does vary depending on source. It is also an area where it is still possible to buy North American made products as that is the only kind my wife sells. In my shop I defer to her for advice on these matters as she is the expert.

EddyCurr
01-29-2015, 11:22 AM
Evan, could you post some examples of aluminum oxide wheels
intended for use on HSS that are dyed a colour other than white
but which do not include an enhanced media (ceramic & ect.)
added to supplement the aluminum oxide.

.

Evan
01-29-2015, 11:26 AM
I would normally say "no problem" but I must sign off now because I am about to get ready to head to the hospital. Bring it back up if you wish in a week or so. I have wheels I can photograph to show differences.

EddyCurr
01-29-2015, 11:36 AM
No. Let's let it go.

It isn't worth tangling over - all the best

Ken R.

Old Hat
01-29-2015, 12:08 PM
Got Grinding?
Don't overheat it....... (Period) with a capitol 'P'.

JRouche
01-29-2015, 12:24 PM
Change the text so it spells out "We Crash It" without any spaces. (Instead of WeCra****.) Looks like an overzealous word filter got in the way.

Yup. I didnt even notice the forum software changed the link cause of the "offensive" word in the link. Thanks, JR

https://www.youtube.com/user/WeCrash*it/videos delete the *

small.planes
01-29-2015, 02:29 PM
I clamp the hss bit in a molegrip (vice grip?)
then just grind away. the molegrip means manipulating the angles is easier, and it never gets to hot to hold.
Ive never got it to red heat, but I dress my wheel frequently.
If Im making a bit that will need a lot removing I'll chop off as much as possible with a dremel first.

Dave

mattthemuppet
01-29-2015, 08:04 PM
I've tried cutting out excess with a dremel and a decent wheel, but it's slow going and very easy to jam and grenade the wheel in the slot if you're not careful. Given that decent wheels cost $2-3ea, I'd rather just use my bench grinder.

Black_Moons
01-29-2015, 10:13 PM
I've tried cutting out excess with a dremel and a decent wheel, but it's slow going and very easy to jam and grenade the wheel in the slot if you're not careful. Given that decent wheels cost $2-3ea, I'd rather just use my bench grinder.

Try an angle grinder cutoff wheel instead. Definitely gets some dull red heat going but sure cuts fast enough.

peekaboobus
01-29-2015, 10:16 PM
I think it does. When they deliver you HSS rectangular tool blanks, it is heat treated and then ground. You can sometimes still see the black oxide scale on some HSS tools that show the non-ground face. But if you heat it too much you basically anneal it. Too much and you might lose some hardness. My vote is take light cuts and keep it cool. No point risk losing hardness.

Willy
01-29-2015, 10:33 PM
Something to keep in mind about the annealing temperature of HSS.
The annealing temperature is about 1600F, so if its starting to get bright in front of the grinder it may be time to back off.:eek:


http://www.simplytoolsteel.com/heat-treating-annealing-tool-steel.html

For most tool and high speed steels, the annealing temperature is about 1600 degrees F.


http://www.m4040.com/Knifemaking/PICTURES/Tutorial/GlowChart-sm.gif

peekaboobus
01-29-2015, 10:38 PM
To be fair though, you can have local high temperature at the plane and near the site of the grind while the rest doesn't look that hot. But you've already weakened the most critical part of the tool, the cutting blade edge.

Black_Moons
01-29-2015, 11:14 PM
To be fair though, you can have local high temperature at the plane and near the site of the grind while the rest doesn't look that hot. But you've already weakened the most critical part of the tool, the cutting blade edge.

that is why I get less and less aggressive as I grind. its OK to heat the hell outta steel your going to remove soon anyway.

Also, its usually when you get the tip to a fine point that it overheats the easiest

Richard P Wilson
01-30-2015, 08:02 AM
Contrary to what the experts say, I've been grinding HSS freehand for a lot of years on a cheapo double ended grinder, using the wheel which came with it, so nothing special. It grinds HSS at a reasonable speed (I mostly use 3/8" or 1/2" square blanks of good UK manufacture) without excessive wear on the wheel. If its lost 1/4" in 10 years thats about as much as it is. I can't remember the last time I had to adjust the tool rest for clearance. I do it with the blank held in my fingers, and cool it in the water tub when it gets too hot for comfort. By this method I doubt if the tip gets above 200F.
I can well believe that water quenching from red can give rise to cracking. My experience, gained from silver soldering HSS tips when making special tooling, is that heating it to dull red and then air cooling doesn't anneal it.

I just don't understand why some people seem to have trouble grinding HSS, I never have. Some of the comments about the danger of softening it while grinding make it sound like the old carbon steel tooling, which it isn't.

EddyCurr
01-30-2015, 12:22 PM
"I use silicon carbide "green wheels. I know they're
allegedly the wrong kind for grinding HSS, and they
wear relatively fast, but I find they run a lot cooler
and cut well"SGW's results from using green silicon carbide on HSS
are not the norm.Since writing the above in post #27, some time online
has made me aware that SGW has company, others who
shape and maintain their HSS tool bits using green silicon
carbide wheels. Not a crowd, but more than I reckoned.

Like SGW, while they know about drawbacks and limitations
of SiC on HSS, they find that the combination suits their
purposes and circumstances sufficiently well enough to
justify working around the shortcomings.

Which brings to mind the following quote:


"Knowledge comes, but wisdom lingers. It may not
be difficult to store up in the mind a vast quantity of
facts within a comparatively short time, but the ability
to form judgments requires the severe discipline of hard
work and the tempering heat of experience and maturity.

Calvin Coolidge

(To the OP - this post is not intended as a recommendation
that you choose a green silicon carbide wheel for carving
substantial sections out of HSS.)

.

Mike Burdick
01-30-2015, 12:46 PM
Regardless of what kind of abrasive wheel you prefer, dressing the wheel before grinding the HSS will expose a fresh layer of sharp grains and that will make a big difference in the speed and heat generated! I use one of these...

http://static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/6Z851_AS01?$smthumb$

Dress the wheel often, they are not meant to last forever!

Ohio Mike
01-30-2015, 01:17 PM
I just don't understand why some people seem to have trouble grinding HSS, I never have. Some of the comments about the danger of softening it while grinding make it sound like the old carbon steel tooling, which it isn't.

Maybe HSS of dubious quality? I know the few "import" blanks I have behave very differently than the old Cleveland Twist Mo-Max Cobalt I have.

Rosco-P
01-30-2015, 06:53 PM
As I figured, opinions are all over the place. I am a beginner and this was the first time I needed a grooving tool. All I had at the time was 1/4" square blanks. I needed 0.035". I did not think of the Dremel to cut chunks. I have one and that is what I use to cut them to length. How about url for silicon carbide "green wheels." and soft bond aluminum oxide wheel. I'm just learning.

You can cut grooves with a parting tool. Need something thinner? Try grinding a grooving tool from a piece of a power hacksaw blade.

CalM
02-01-2015, 08:45 PM
You can cut grooves with a parting tool. Need something thinner? Try grinding a grooving tool from a piece of a power hacksaw blade.

Can you suggest a useful method of holding a power hack saw blade in a typical lantern or QT tool post?

And if the groove needs to be inside the bore, such as a snap ring or O-ring groove, is there a good way to use power hacksaw blades for these applications?

Sometimes grinding HSS tool blanks is just the very BEST way to get a job done when it's needed.

Old Hat
02-01-2015, 09:01 PM
I worked a while with a Bullard Ace, that could cut anything that could be draw on a print.
He had several drawers of tooling, nearly all hand made that would cause your heart
to skip a few beats the first time you see the drawers pulled open.
A yes he had many tools fashioned from hacksaw blades.

A few he said were even made from by-metal blades.
You could see part of one tooth in the shape of the biZness end.
He was also a Silver Solder Wizard.
can't imagine why!;)

darryl
02-01-2015, 09:30 PM
Interesting discussion so far. I use hss quite a bit, and I also use the green wheel- but for touching up after rough grinding on the a/0 wheel. I do dress both. The green wheel in now about 2-1/7 inches in diameter :) Kidding of course, but it sure is a lot smaller now than when I bought it.

I liked the reference to using power hacksaw blades. I have a couple that I've taken chunks out of for some special cutter, but mostly I use the hss bandsaw blade material a local shop gave me. Starts at 1-1/4 wide, and I cut pieces as needed, grind off the teeth usually, then shape the piece. For shallow and narrow grooves it works well. I cut and shape the pieces using the super disc, a carbide coated flexible disc that cuts on the edge and both sides. This disc is mounted in a dedicated machine so I can use both hands on the workpiece to maneuver it around- the machine has a table and a slot cut in it where the disc passes through. Good support for the workpiece, and fairly safe. At any rate, if you have a good way to control a cutoff disc, you can shape this blade material into basically whatever cutter you might need.

For a snap ring groove I find it to be good- the holder is then the challenge. But if you're going deep, the lack of clearance becomes an issue, and there isn't the thickness in the tool to allow a relief angle on each side and still have strength under the cutting edge.

One thing I have not done, but plan to try, is to stand a section of blade material upright against the cross slide table and then clamp it to the side of a tool holder for stability. This would be akin to the diamond tool holder in that the tool is upright and not horizontal, and it has the benefit that the tool is not free to flex downwards under cutting pressure. Your lathe will vary of course, and it's up to you to figure out a way of setting this up- and getting the cutting edge height correct.

Back to the bandsaw blade material- I have what's starting to become an extensive collection of scraping and deburring tools made from this. Key to it all is having a good way of cutting it into shapes (grinding it really). At one point I made up a set of counterboring and countersinking tools for a variety of bolt head types and angles. A holder of sorts is made, a sort of D bit shape on one end, to which a piece of saw blade material can be bolted. Instead of a hole in the blade for a bolt to go through, I simply ground a groove from one end to a distance where the bolt would be going through. The piece works like a spade bit, and it's quick and easy to swap out designs.

I guess you can tell I'm getting a lot of mileage out of those scrapped blades.

Old Hat
02-01-2015, 10:37 PM
+1 on Post # 49!

Old Hat
02-01-2015, 10:42 PM
One thing I have not done, but plan to try, is to stand a section of blade material upright against the cross slide table
and then clamp it to the side of a tool holder for stability..

Reminds me of a set of tool-bit holders, I once saw, where the bit was held near vertically.
Frankly the advantages escape me, but I would never dout the value of this concept
given the nature and abilities of it's maker.
http://www.hobartwelders.com/weldtalk/attachment.php?attachmentid=37195&d=1422849153

It's just a conceptual pic, for you really "tight" guys.

Black_Moons
02-01-2015, 11:03 PM
Advantage is rigidity with a tiny bit. You can use 1/4" bit yet take very heavy cuts because the force puts the bit in compression instead of bending

Also, you only need to sharpen the top face and maybe put a small radius on the front, Side/front clearance is provided by the holder.

Old Hat
02-01-2015, 11:10 PM
Thanks!
I feel a tad embarrassed I didn't try a tad harder on that.
He's gone now, but his Idea (or who's ever it was) lives on.

He also had some holders, that had a sort of wedge-lock....
he built... and I do remember the reasoning.

He said locking down had no effect of scooting the bits, and
locked against a wider cross-section than a set-screw doz.

Hellkell
02-02-2015, 12:37 AM
Thanks!
I feel a tad embarrassed I didn't try a tad harder on that.


Geez Phil.... Even stupid ole me new that. lol


And Darryl, could you snap a few pictures of some of the bandsaw blade tools you made, mainly the counterbore and countersink?

Thanks.

vpt
02-02-2015, 08:12 AM
I use a diamond flat to touch up HSS while still in the tool post. It is a diamond sharpener for fishing lures/hooks one side is more abrasive than the other. Works a treat.

Old Hat
02-02-2015, 08:58 AM
Geez Phil.... Even stupid ole me new that. lol

Thanks.

Have mercy on my my brother..... we're talk'n a glimpse of a warior's weapons over 30 years ago.
I do remember now, his reasoning matching what Black Moons has posted.
Infact further, now I recall another instance when one of my peers showed me,
a set-up, where he had been lent one of those holders,
and a narrow grooving bit to cut some vanes in a part.

He was shown to keep the locking, only just tight enuff to secure the bit.
If the groove tool loaded up, it would be pushed downward allowing for
the lathe-hand to retreat from the cut with no injury to the part or the tool.

Rosco-P
02-02-2015, 09:13 AM
Post #51, toolbit orientation is like that of a turret lathe box tool. IMHO the revolutionary diamond tool holder is little more than a box tool with a shank for the toolpost instead of tailstock or bed turret.

Old Hat
02-02-2015, 09:24 AM
Makes sense.
I've seen impressive skill and innovation, allong the way, and I've been quick to adopt it
when involved....... but beyond make a one-off, to me lathe work is lathe work.
You take a usually round part and end up with a round part. I don't have a passion for it.

So my recollections can be a little crusty, and dusty.

I did have a passion for the Bullard though!!!
It's just a machine I think was given to Mr. Bullard in a divine vision or dream.

Carm
02-02-2015, 09:56 AM
Rray,
Lots of mentioning "power" hacksaw blades. Regular hand hack blades are fine, seems most these days are HSS.
Don't overlook drill bits, end mill and reamer shanks for tool blanks.

Rosco-P
02-02-2015, 10:11 AM
Rray,
Lots of mentioning "power" hacksaw blades. Regular hand hack blades are fine, seems most these days are HSS.
Don't overlook drill bits, end mill and reamer shanks for tool blanks.

Power hacksaw blades because they are taller and thicker than regular blades. They can be reground to fit into a blade style parting tool holder. The problem was grinding a toolbit for grooving, post #9.

Hey Carm, no location in your profile? No even a general one? North of the Border, Sinai Peninsula, Indian Sub-continent, Rocky Mountain High, etc.????

Carm
02-02-2015, 11:07 AM
Power hacksaw blades because they are taller and thicker than regular blades. They can be reground to fit into a blade style parting tool holder. The problem was grinding a toolbit for grooving, post #9

"Hey Carm, no location in your profile? No even a general one? North of the Border, Sinai Peninsula, Indian Sub-continent, Rocky Mountain High, etc.????

Post #5 maybe?
Some snap-ring grooves can be cut using only a hand hacksaw blade with factory set. Many ways suffice to fasten a toolbit to its holder, and indeed there are companies who make small HSS inserts for threading, grooving trepanning etc.


Unlike the Other Site, forum rules don't require a location, not that I have an objection thereof.
Many would interpret " in Dixie" as south of the Mason-Dixon. Some say anybody above Mamou is a Yankee.
I'm north of it presently, wasn't always.

Rosco-P
02-02-2015, 11:18 AM
Yep, post #5.