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brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 11:28 AM
As far as I am able to determine, no one has built a model wood splitter. A google search on wood splitters show two main types, either hydraulic (which are not suitable for a model, in my opinion), and electric screw type which might hold some promise. Then of course there is the cone shaped threaded splitter which bolts to a tractor wheel and screws itself into a block of wood, bursting it to split it, and the heavy revolving flywheel with an axe head mounted on it, which looks like a total suicide machine. I have seen one example of a steam driven wood splitter, which worked well, but I doubt that it would scale down very well.
Model engines simply don't have much torque. One of the primary things that a model woodsplitter would need would be a huge torque multiplier, and with torque multiplication, things slow down dramatically.
I have a couple of ideas floating around in my head, one involving a rack which is pushed forward incrementally by a sprag driven from an eccentric, and one which had a heavy flywheel with an eccentric on both sides driving "pusher arms".I want to split wooden logs 1 1/2" long, and prefer to split them in one full movement of the splitter, not incremental units.

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 11:33 AM
Of course, the wood splitting action would have to be controlled by a hand lever mechanism, so it would only split "on demand", and then only one cycle. Nobody wants a finger chopped off while removing the split piece of wood and putting a new piece on the splitter.

dp
01-29-2015, 11:45 AM
Have your sprague clutch turn a differential screw as a torque multiplier. Two sprague clutchs on the same shaft will use both strokes of a crank pin to turn the shaft which speeds things up. . To picture this, put two boxend ratchet wrenches on a hex dowel, put one in each and, then move both hands up and down at the same time as if they were attached to a push rod. If the crank pin that drives the spragues comes off the cam shaft then both will moved on the power stroke.

Hey - I found the old drawing I made...

http://thevirtualbarandgrill.com/machinery/seesaw-gen.jpg

sid pileski
01-29-2015, 11:49 AM
http://www.youtube.com/embed/40sCGb678sQ

Hope the link works. Just another method. I've seen variations on impact splitters.
Look to be dangerous at best!

Sid

Nicholas
01-29-2015, 11:55 AM
How about an inertia type, using flywheels, rack and pinion:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4_Oze0-Cy4

Normanv
01-29-2015, 12:25 PM
Both of the above two designs will be safe as long as you wear gloves!

davidh
01-29-2015, 12:43 PM
that DR model barely works. not enough oomph . i would be quite disappointed. the rotating wedge is scary as heck. almost as bad as a buzz saw.
i would think an air over hydraulic pump driven with a steam engine would be a really involved project. but a master piece when finished. hydraulics don't need to leak :)

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 12:52 PM
I really like what Nicholas posted. I hadn't seen that type before. I have been setting designing in my head for two hours, and have decided that even though model engines don't have a lot of torque, they can spin a massive flywheel, and generate tremendous inertia. If one can then gear down the rpm of that big flywheel and use a dog clutch to engage/disengage an eccentric with pusher arms, that will work, and yes, it will use much the same principle as the one posted by Nicholas. DP---I also thought about what your sketch shows, and haven't ruled it out, only reversing things get a bit tricky.

Black_Moons
01-29-2015, 12:57 PM
Whats wrong with hydraulics for models?
http://images.esellerpro.com/2921/I/264/98/AU317.jpg

I have a similar little unit to this, works surprisingly well. I have little doubt the model would snap like a twig somewhere before the hydraulics blew.

Also have one similar to this:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/NTYzWDc1MA==/z/8Y4AAOSwRLZT~ztw/$_35.JPG

Both work just as you would expect them to!

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 01:06 PM
BlackMoons---I have already had a go at a mechanical gear pump. Although it did work, it developed very little pressure, nowheres near enough to drive a hydraulic splitter.

daveo
01-29-2015, 01:07 PM
You make some neat stuff! It would be cool to see a mini hydraulic one!

Gary Paine
01-29-2015, 02:05 PM
Brian, what scale are we talking about? An inch and a half length of wood 3/4 inch diameter will split with a sharp edge quite easily with the grain.


I just cut an inch and a half off a dowel 7/8 in diameter, tried a 1/2 inch double bevel chisel with the tip of the cutting edge on center to keep the proportions in line. Well, with just my strength behind the chisel I couldn't split it. I think if I imposed a bathroom scale into the action, I'd probably break it. So my perception of quite easily was biased by the use of my trusty mallet, I fear. Yup, you're going to need inertia to help.

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 02:08 PM
Yes Gary, that's the size I'm talking about.

Toolguy
01-29-2015, 03:04 PM
I have used a Super Split which the DR one is a copy of. It was the best splitter ever. With just a 5 horse motor it would split anything we stuck in it. Even 18" diameter logs. For the big ones, you just do one side and start working around like a pie if it doesn't split in half the first time. If I still had a need for a splitter I would get one of those in a flash. The flywheels are doing all the work and it's way faster than a hydraulic one.

bruto
01-29-2015, 04:56 PM
Adding to the above post, I have an old model of the Super Split, from some time in the 1980's, which I still use, having had it for many years. It has a 3/4 horse (yes, that's not a misprint) 120 volt electric motor. It is nearly silent, wickedly fast, the mechanism is dead simple, and it will split nearly anything you can lift onto it in one stroke, and absolutely anything in multiple strokes, even across the grain. I don't know about the DR, but the Super Split is still made, I think.

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 05:15 PM
Okay--I've got the easy part sussed out. The flywheel and supports are going to be easy too. The Devil be in gearing down the flywheel to a reasonable output rpm and figuring out the dog clutch. And just for a sense of scale, the round part behind the splitter wedge is 3/4" diameter, mounted in a 1" wide plate.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-2_zpsb5d649cc.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-2_zpsb5d649cc.jpg.html)

tc429
01-29-2015, 05:36 PM
one of the simplest (albeit the crudest constructed) ive ever seen- but jeez, the guy needs to make a jig to get his hands away!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ewX89PaRDDo

tc429
01-29-2015, 05:46 PM
Okay--I've got the easy part sussed out. The flywheel and supports are going to be easy too. The Devil be in gearing down the flywheel to a reasonable output rpm and figuring out the dog clutch. And just for a sense of scale, the round part behind the splitter wedge is 3/4" diameter, mounted in a 1" wide plate.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-2_zpsb5d649cc.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-2_zpsb5d649cc.jpg.html)

if seriously considering a crankshaft design, some alternate ideas/food for thought:
1) make the wedge the end of the conrod- the angling might assist in splitting/not sticking- just hook the cutting edge so it wont tend to kick up or down
2)instead of a reciprocating sleeve type bearing, just use a trunnion/linkage, so it just rocks...much easier to lubricate/prevent contamination

both could be used together- just keep in mind the wedge shape/up/down action of a trunnion bearing, and angle action of the connecting rod...making both linkages as long as possible reduces the non-linear component of the motions, but think- the rock/swing/shape of the wedge might be something that could assist in splitting action...will want to minimize 'sliding' of the wedge as that would be like a brakeshoe :)

lost_cause
01-29-2015, 05:50 PM
you (or anyone else, for that matter) who needs to do more research on hydraulic wood splitters is welcome to come to my place and demo my splitter. i'll gladly supply all the wood and fuel required. feel free to spend hours researching it :D

Gary Paine
01-29-2015, 06:38 PM
I continued my experiment on 7/8 dowel with a double bevel chisel of about 30 degrees and .1 inch thick overall. I put the dowel against the faceplate on my lathe and the butt of the chisel on my tailstock. I hooked my fish scale to the crank on the tailstock and pulled as best possible to tangent to the crank with the fish scale. Two dowels both peaked at just under 8 pounds. When the split began the force to finish it went way down to less than 3 pounds.
The screw in the tailstock is 10 tpi and 1/2 inch diameter. The radius of the crank is 1.8 inches. By my math, a 3.6 mechanical advantage crank to screw and 11.3 through the screw totals a 40.7:1 advantage. Therefore, the chisel took 325 pounds force to start the split.
The wider the bevel on the ram, the faster the wood will split, but the force to start the split will be much higher. forces will be.

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 07:32 PM
Maybe we're going to rethink this a little. I have a 3" length of 24 DP rack left over from my sawmill. The "wood" I want to split is only 1 1/2" to 2" long. The video that Nicholas posted the video for is so simple I think I will try to copy it.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/24DPRACK002_zps86d2bd4f.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/24DPRACK002_zps86d2bd4f.jpg.html)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C4_Oze0-Cy4

lost_cause
01-29-2015, 07:35 PM
with my full size hydraulic splitter i have enough hydraulic pressure, but a low flow rate due to a small pump. because of this i built the splitter with a steeper angled wedge so that the wood often "pops" in two long before the cylinder goes to full extened length. that way i don't have to wait a long time to cycle the ram back.

if i understand what you are doing, you will always be making a full cycle of the ram, regardless of whether it is needed. because of this, i would think a narrow wedge would be the most beneficial as it would take less pressure to push through the wood.

another thing that might help would be a progressive angle on the wedge. i've seen a few full size splitters where a thin piece of has been welded to the leading edge of the wedge, so when you make initial contact you are only trying to force a thin wedge into the wood. once the thin leading piece has started, the wood splits easier on the steeply angled wedge. on a full size splitter it is usually 1/4"-3/8" thick, and about 1"-1 1/2" sharpened flat bar welded to the front of the wedge. on small model it would be like leading in with part of a steak knife to start the split.

brian Rupnow
01-29-2015, 08:11 PM
If you look at the diameter of the pinion in the video, it is much smaller in relationship to the rack than I am able to approach. The smallest gear I can cut is a 12 tooth, which has about a 1/2" pitch diameter. I will have to do some experimenting and see if this will drive the ram too fast or not. Although it would be less hassle if it doesn't, it's not a deal breaker because I can slip a gear reduction in between the flywheels and the pinion shaft. I have a set of 3 7/8" diameter x 1/2" thick steel flywheels that I have been saving for a project, and I think they would be just about perfect for this.

Yow Ling
01-29-2015, 11:36 PM
While this is no help to the thread, here is my favourite splitter, all mechanical, relativly safe, made from an old hay baler gearbox


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zexm9osCtuo

brian Rupnow
01-30-2015, 11:37 AM
Here we have the new version in retracted and extended positions. I haven't designed the mechanism which holds down the rack in contact with the gear yet---I will do that this afternoon. those flywheels are 3 7/8" diameter. It will take a piece of wood 1.9" long.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3RETRACTED_zps3adb0205.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3RETRACTED_zps3adb0205.jpg.html)
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3EXTENDED_zps5b256321.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3EXTENDED_zps5b256321.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
01-30-2015, 12:20 PM
These will make perfect "hold down" bearings to ride against the back of the rack to keep it engaged with the pinion. They are router follower bearings. These are what I use for cam followers on some engines I build.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/HOLDDOWNBEARINGS001_zpsd07ec7e5.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/HOLDDOWNBEARINGS001_zpsd07ec7e5.jpg.html)

Gary Paine
01-30-2015, 01:10 PM
Nice drawings. Because you will need to generate over 325 pounds thrust, you will need some mechanical advantage or some inertia in my opinion. Those big flywheels can work for you to store sufficient energy, but you will need them to spin at some pretty good speed. That would mean a significant gear reduction and clutch needs to go between the pinion and the flywheels as you mentioned earlier. With a 1/2 inch pitch diameter, the rack will travel the whole 1 1/2 inches in only one revolution.

brian Rupnow
01-30-2015, 03:27 PM
The links and activation arm are all sussed out. The yellow bearing support plate and flywheel that fit on the near side are hidden so you can see the linkage. About all that is left to do is model in the return springs for the ram. Gary--You are overlooking the value of the impact.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSYWITHLINKS-3_zps596d4e1c.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSYWITHLINKS-3_zps596d4e1c.jpg.html)

krutch
01-30-2015, 04:34 PM
When ya get it built maybe ya can produce tooth picks for midgets.

brian Rupnow
01-30-2015, 04:56 PM
So there we have it, return springs and all. My software counts a total of 21 parts. 2 of those parts are the return springs, and two are the flywheels which I already have, one is the rack which I already have, and two are the router bearings . That leaves 14 parts to be fabricated.
The flywheels aren't really wide enough for a belt drive at only 1/2" wide, so I might have to think about a pulley. I would like to have my flywheels turning at 300 rpm, and the powerband of my engine is at about 1200 rpm, so if I could drive it to one of the flywheels with an o-ring drive with the 1" diameter pulley already on the Webster, that would work out perfect.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3_zps1e44d56a.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3_zps1e44d56a.jpg.html)

Black Forest
01-30-2015, 06:02 PM
Brian you have built enough stuff to enable you to go into the firewood business. You could use your Jacobs ladder thingy to load the firewood into a boiler to power one of your steam engines. The sawmill to cut the rounds to go to the splitter.

brian Rupnow
01-30-2015, 06:30 PM
Blackforest--When I get the splitter built, I may build a model stove to burn the wood in, and set it up out side for the field mice to run so they can keep warm.

Gary Paine
01-30-2015, 07:53 PM
Gary--You are overlooking the value of the impact.

Well, that certainly could be. I like your project and your chosen approach, and you do some cool stuff. Because you have my interest, I thought I'd pipe in with some thoughts to help you make it as successful as your others.

Here's my thoughts for what they are worth. I described how I got there so you can check it:
1. Engaging a rack with a pinion spinning at 300 rpm 9 (almost 40 ft/sec on a half inch pinion) will put quite a shock load if it will engage. If it engages, and holds together, the action will be over in 1/300th of a second.
2. I did some rough calculations. I assumed your steel flywheels were solid stock. If so, they should weigh 2.7 lbs. I assumed at worst case you would want the inertia of the flywheels to do most if not all the work. The energy E in the spinning wheel is weight (2.7) *V*V/64.32. V is the tangential velocity of the flywheel. E is in ft. lbs. I substituted 1.75*RPM in this equation for V. Using a low limit example where the entire energy in the flywheel was needed to generate the torque of 325 lb. acting against a 1/4 inch radius pinion (81 ft. lb.), I solved for RPM.
Now remembering this doesn't account for friction, fighting return springs, or acceleration of the ram, the calculation said the flywheels have sufficient energy at only 25 RPM. 50 might cover the rest.
I would think that splitting energy will be splitting energy whether impact or not, but I do not know. In any case you have plenty.
A gear reduction between the flywheels and pinion will slow down the action for you.

mickeyf
01-30-2015, 08:47 PM
All this talk about enough oomph, etc. I don't see the problem. A model wood splitter is made to split model wood - just feed it little balsa logs, right?;)

bruto
01-30-2015, 09:23 PM
A couple of thoughts. The rack and pinion design looks good except for the issue of automatic return. I agree with one of the posters above that the wedge should be narrow if you expect a full stroke every time. Less power is needed, and there's no particular need to pop the wood apart quickly. The Super Split has a narrow, knife-sharp wedge.

I would also not put the wedge on the ram, because the split wood will always end up falling off in the middle of the machine. In the event of a stuck piece, the ram will remain in the wood, and have problems retracting. Having the ram push the wood to the wedge results in the split wood falling at least partly off the end, rather than piling up in the middle, and if the piece of wood is difficult, it stays on the wedge while the ram retracts for a second shot. I think for a relatively low power model, that might be important.

With respect to automatic return, the Super Split accomplishes this by having a blanked out rack at the end of its travel. When the ram comes just up to the wedge, there are no teeth in the rack, so that the pinion does not gnaw at it. The over-center handle is released, and a spring holds the rack above the pinion for its return, which is done simply with a couple of screen-door springs. It's very simple, but it has to be designed so that the gears disengage quickly to avoid clashing.

doctordoctor
01-30-2015, 09:44 PM
yeah I dont see a problem with hydraulics..would be great for a model. Plenty of cool parts to make on a lathe, polish up, and get very precise force multiplication from

Black Forest
01-31-2015, 09:53 AM
Blackforest--When I get the splitter built, I may build a model stove to burn the wood in, and set it up out side for the field mice to run so they can keep warm.

Seems appropriate Brian especially if you build that miniature Mouse Shearing Machine.

brian Rupnow
01-31-2015, 10:26 AM
All of the modelling is completed. Bushings have been added to the bearing plates, keyways to the pinion shaft and flywheels, and a stop bolt assembly to adjust the swing of the engagement linkage. Also, a cross dowel has been fitted through the main support body to limit the back travel of the rack and pusher assembly. In the current view, the handle is in the engaged position and the router bearings are pressing on the flat back side of the rack, forcing it down into engagement with the pinion gear.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3_zps842c84a9.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSY-3_zps842c84a9.jpg.html)

Black Forest
01-31-2015, 10:45 AM
If I am seeing this correctly one has to push the handle towards the back of the machine. That is counterintuitive for real use. One would want to pull the handle towards the push of the ram. Also why are you making the mechanism to engage the rack so complicated. A simple J type handle with the bearing mounted on the lower most part of the J with the pivot point at the bottom tip of the J, a stop block and an spring. Done.

http://i853.photobucket.com/albums/ab91/burnandreturn/jayhandle_zpse3f45e02.jpg (http://s853.photobucket.com/user/burnandreturn/media/jayhandle_zpse3f45e02.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
01-31-2015, 12:13 PM
BlackForest--watch the video in post #5.

brian Rupnow
01-31-2015, 12:57 PM
I think perhaps the most interesting part of this build, for me, will be the linkages. Most of the plates, etcetera are just basic shapes with clearance or tapped holes in them. The gear is complex enough if you haven't made two dozen gears already on other projects. The links are in a way, new ground for me to cover. This particular link will be made of steel. The only trick part may be turning the bosses. Again, the standard warning applies about these drawings--Do Not Copy them!!! There may be errors that I won't discover until later in the build. All drawings will be updated, and a download link provided at the end of the job.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/LINK-1_zpsbe3acc24.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/LINK-1_zpsbe3acc24.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
01-31-2015, 03:43 PM
Yow!!! I'm glad there are only a couple of links. This is too much like jewellry making for me!!!
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/FIRSTLINK-2002_zps8fc3592e.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/FIRSTLINK-2002_zps8fc3592e.jpg.html)

darryl
01-31-2015, 05:12 PM
I might have missed how you intend to supply the pinion- but don't discount the lantern pinion. You can easily make one in a small diameter and low tooth count using music wire. Assemble using loctite and set the shaft parts in a V block for alignment.

brian Rupnow
01-31-2015, 06:34 PM
Darryl--I have a complete set of 24DP gearcutters, so I will make my own shaft/pinion all cut from one piece of steel.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/12TOOTH24DPSPURGEARX375THICK_zps0d0c499b.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/12TOOTH24DPSPURGEARX375THICK_zps0d0c499b.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
02-01-2015, 12:21 PM
This is just so NEAT!!! I didn't really trust my layout, and didn't want to make the rather complex bearing support plates until I had actually built and checked the pivot points for my linkage mechanism.
I layed out the position of the pivot holes in a scrap piece of plate and loctited the pivot shafts into place, as well as one extra round piece to act as the "travel limiter" which will be adjustable in the finished version. When the handle is pushed to the right in the "engaged" position, the two router bearings are riding against the back side of the rack and holding it in contact with the rotating pinion gear which sets below it. As I had planned it, the linkage is a "cam over" action, and in the position shown, no amount of upward force on the rollers can make the linkage move into the "disengaged' position.
When the handle is moved to the left, into the "disengaged" position, the rollers lift up about 1/8" from the back of the rack.---The rack will be spring loaded from below to move into the "up" position against the underside of the rollers. That is the amount it needs to move to disengage the teeth of the rack from the pinion gear, so that the rack and "pusher plate" can be pulled back into the load position by a pair of tension springs attached to it. Note that in my "disengaged" arrangement I haven't moved the rack up, so you can see the gap between the back of the rack and the rollers. In normal operation, that gap will never be there---the rack always stays in contact with the rollers.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/LINKSENGAGEDANDDISENGAGED001_zpsc271ee1e.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/LINKSENGAGEDANDDISENGAGED001_zpsc271ee1e.jpg.html)
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/LINKSENGAGEDANDDISENGAGED002_zpsc9089bc5.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/LINKSENGAGEDANDDISENGAGED002_zpsc9089bc5.jpg.html)

dp
02-01-2015, 01:30 PM
Couple things - the work required to unlock the rack will depend on load (not an issue on a model but should be a consideration in a full-size, self-limiting system), and, there's no gear train as such and so the FPM of the rack is the FPM of the pitch circle of the pinion. Are you adding a gear/pulley train on the splitter or will the reduction be provided by the drive belt to the engine? My inner machine geek would love to see a big ol' bull gear and drive pinion or reversing pawl and lever ratchet on the splitter. I really like this design, Brian. You're one of the few folks out there looking for things for your engines to do.

brian Rupnow
02-01-2015, 02:30 PM
The only reduction will be in the pulley drive system. I am going to try to drive a narrow belt from a 1" pulley on the engine to one of the 3 7/8"flywheels.

Norman Bain
02-01-2015, 03:01 PM
The DR system has only 9 teeth on the pinion gear.

How about putting the flywheels onto a jackshaft that in turn drives the pinion at some reduced ratio. That way the flywheels could do 600 rpm and the pinion something like 200.

Norman

brian Rupnow
02-01-2015, 03:35 PM
Norman--I thought about that---but---The logs I'm splitting are only 1" diameter pine. I think it will work the way I have it.

brian Rupnow
02-01-2015, 03:59 PM
This is what it looks like when the rack is disengaged and fully retracted. the rack and all that it is attached to pivots on the right hand lower edge of the red pusher plate, and is pushed up into that position by the grey leaf spring, which slides along the top of the main body. the blue adjusting block with the red bolt through it acts as a stop for the bottom link so it doesn't go too far back. I will probably have to turn some off the diameter of the head of the adjusting bolt for clearance from the back of the rack.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/LAYOUTFORRACKLIFT_zpsb076eaec.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/LAYOUTFORRACKLIFT_zpsb076eaec.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
02-01-2015, 04:22 PM
The only thing I'm not 100% sure of is that there is a bit of voodoo going on at the "free" end of the rack. In the video, the free end of the rack has a sharp angle cut on it. I know why--the entire handle is held in the "cammed over" forward position by the grey leaf spring pushing up on the rack. As the rack gets very close to the end of its stroke, the flat leaf spring pushes the angled part of the rack up against the rollers, forcing the entire linkage to flip over into the "uncammed "retract" position and let the rack jump up out of contact with the pinion gear. I may have to figure that angled cut on the end of the rack out after I get everything assembled.

brian Rupnow
02-02-2015, 07:28 PM
I had a nice peaceful morning, and found a scrap of bronze to machine the adjusting bolt holder from. Then I went down town to my steel suppliers and bought all the material to finish the woodsplitter. I decided the main body should be made of cold rolled steel because of the pusher sliding along it. I bought the correct size piece, squared it up, then cut the big notch in it, and almost immediately I realized I had cut the damned notch 1/2" too long!!! I continued on, tapping 10 holes and wondering how I could have done such a stupid thing. when I was finished on the mill, I made up a piece slightly larger than the area I had cut away in error, V-d the edges, and took it out into my main garage to my "stupid mistake undoer" (some people call it a mig welder)and welded the piece back in. Then some clean up on the mill, and nobody knows about it but me!!!
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/MAINBODY002_zpsce0f0c29.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/MAINBODY002_zpsce0f0c29.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
02-03-2015, 01:52 PM
That's enough silly work for today. Everything fits so far. There are some interesting set-ups in that splitter head!!
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/MAINBODYANDSPLITTERANDBASE001_zps0e14ab96.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/MAINBODYANDSPLITTERANDBASE001_zps0e14ab96.jpg.html )
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/MAINBODYANDSPLITTERANDBASE002_zps7af903aa.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/MAINBODYANDSPLITTERANDBASE002_zps7af903aa.jpg.html )

brian Rupnow
02-04-2015, 11:38 AM
Well Dang!!! Ya gotta just love that!!! I just got some real work in so will have to discontinue for now.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/FIRSTASSYWITHFLYWHEELS001_zps95199bf3.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/FIRSTASSYWITHFLYWHEELS001_zps95199bf3.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
02-05-2015, 11:38 AM
Now, if I just had 12 teeth cut on this baby, the pinion gear/driveshaft would be finished. The gear is so small in diameter that I didn't even think of making it a separate piece. I agonized over whether to make it out of cold rolled steel, 01 drill rod unhardened, or 4140 steel, because I am worried about the teeth shearing off. This morning I decided to go the cheapest route first, because I already had some 5/8" diameter cold rolled, and I am afraid of cutting any material harder than cold rolled steel because I don't want to wreck my smallest gear cutter. They cost me close to $70 each!! I may get the teeth cut this afternoon.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/PINIONSHAFTREADYFORTEETH001_zps62d31313.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/PINIONSHAFTREADYFORTEETH001_zps62d31313.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
02-05-2015, 03:33 PM
That went well!! The gear is cut, and I didn't end up with any "half teeth". Both ends have the keyways cut, although it's a bit hard to see in the picture. It mates very well with the rack---(I tried it as soon as it came off the mill.). At the last minute, when I was making the shaft this morning, I decided to make the shaft 3/4" longer on one end, just in case I have to mount a pulley instead of running my drive belt to one of the flywheels.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/PINIONSHAFTFINISHED001_zpsc7d7c897.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/PINIONSHAFTFINISHED001_zpsc7d7c897.jpg.html)

brian Rupnow
02-05-2015, 05:15 PM
Now that I have reassembled everything, I can actually try it out. If I spin the flywheels by hand, feed the rack in from the back end, and immediately move the lever into the "extend" position, it grabs the rack and spits it out the front side like a lightning bolt!!:eek::eek: It doesn't seem to do any "grinding" of the gear teeth at all, as near as I can tell. This is good news, so far.

fixerup
02-05-2015, 10:21 PM
Again, another of your project which I really enjoy following. Looks good and promising!
Thanks for posting.
Phil

steve herman
02-06-2015, 01:56 AM
Thttp://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/010.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/010.jpg.html)his is the clutch operated splitter I built, I http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/010.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/010.jpg.html)split wood and break 2x4s,and 1x4 3 at a tihttp://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/010.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/010.jpg.html)me. the fly weal weighs 80 lbs. the cross bar is removable

brian Rupnow
02-06-2015, 08:40 AM
Steve--those are very interesting pictures. a bit of an explanation on how it works would help. Does something on the spinning flywheel engage the linkage forcing it to move, and if so, what disengages the linkage. I would love to know more about it.--Brian

brian Rupnow
02-06-2015, 01:54 PM
We have an all bronze slider finished. Holy Cow---There are only a couple of pieces left to make!!!
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/BRONZESLIDERFINISHED001_zpsbb412201.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/BRONZESLIDERFINISHED001_zpsbb412201.jpg.html)

bruto
02-06-2015, 03:39 PM
I was about to say I wish my Super Split was made that nicely, but then it occurred to me that I'd have to put it indoors! Dang.

Anyway, that's a nice looking little machine.

brian Rupnow
02-06-2015, 08:15 PM
Check this out. This is just too cool!!!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FXLX0TC0YFY&feature=youtu.be

brian Rupnow
02-06-2015, 08:23 PM
Before anybody points it out---The "pusher plate" will not extend far enough to run into the splitting wedge when I get everything finished and in place. It will stop about 3/8" from the splitter plate.

Black Forest
02-07-2015, 04:12 AM
Are you planning on having the end of the rack blanked at the end of the stroke? Meaning no teeth and a flat area so the pinion is not engaged at the end of the stroke.

brian Rupnow
02-07-2015, 08:55 AM
BlackForest--Yes, like I said in an earlier post, there is a little bit of mechanical Voodoo doing on at the back end of the rack. The rack is cut away on a steep angle, and the springs under the rack push the rollers up, disengaging the handle and disengaging the rack from the gear.

brian Rupnow
02-07-2015, 11:24 AM
After giving this some though, I have decided that this lovely little machine would chop fingers just as easily as it will chop wood. The "logs" are round and will have a tendency to roll off the splitter before they get split, and I don't want my fingers grabbing for a log trying to straighten it out and "whoops"--there goes the tip of my finger!!! To that effect, I have designed a set of log racks that will keep the log from falling off the splitter before it gets pushed through the splitter wedge.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSYWITHRACKS-3_zpsec5dbd42.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSYWITHRACKS-3_zpsec5dbd42.jpg.html)

Black Forest
02-07-2015, 01:33 PM
After giving this some though, I have decided that this lovely little machine would chop fingers just as easily as it will chop wood. The "logs" are round and will have a tendency to roll off the splitter before they get split, and I don't want my fingers grabbing for a log trying to straighten it out and "whoops"--there goes the tip of my finger!!! To that effect, I have designed a set of log racks that will keep the log from falling off the splitter before it gets pushed through the splitter wedge.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSYWITHRACKS-3_zpsec5dbd42.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/WOODSPLITTERASSYWITHRACKS-3_zpsec5dbd42.jpg.html)

I guess all your logs will be the same diameter! Why not do it like the full sized splitters do it and have a V type trough to self center the log. Would be more realistic and not more work.

Northernsinger
02-07-2015, 01:41 PM
Brian I can see you are already well beyond needing more information on splitter types, but neither you nor anybody else has shown what was the most common kind of splitter used in various wood industries here in New England for most of the 20th century. Here, from a 1940's mill supply catalog, is one of the type:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v227/brnstn/Americansplitter.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/brnstn/media/Americansplitter.jpg.html)

This type splitter was still being used in a bobbin mill in my little New England town in the 1970's. It was a dangerous machine and many of the 'hands' in my town were missing their thumbs from running this, making maple bobbin blanks for turning, eight hours a day.

It did have the advantage of simplicity, efficiency, and easy maintenance.

ahidley
02-07-2015, 01:45 PM
Can you remove one of the wheels so I can see how the internals work?

Paul Alciatore
02-07-2015, 02:11 PM
An OSHA inspector would have instant, fatal heart failure. He'd be dead before he hit the floor.

Northernsinger
02-07-2015, 07:39 PM
Though I can see that Brian is already settled on something else, one of this type would make a fine model building experience.

brian Rupnow
02-07-2015, 08:02 PM
Northernsinger--I think something may be missing from your post.

bruto
02-07-2015, 11:34 PM
Northernsinger--I think something may be missing from your post.

Maybe a finger or two.. I imagine Northernsinger was referring to the non-rack type flywheel splitter of old. I've heard from others that, though very effective, they were horribly dangerous.

The full size Super Split also has a tendency to drop wood, but it's fairly easy to hold a piece steady until the ram hits it and then pull away, or just to balance a log on the beam. The instructions are quite adamant, however, that this is a single person operation only.

brian Rupnow
02-08-2015, 12:26 PM
The wood splitter is finished!! The log racks that keep the piece of wood from falling off before it gets split got a little simpler. The dual springs which return the rack to it's home position were scrapped in favour of a single tension spring that returns the rack. Now all I have to do is hook it up to one of my engines and see if it really splits wood.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/LOGSPLITTERFINISHED002_zpsceb26583.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/LOGSPLITTERFINISHED002_zpsceb26583.jpg.html)
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/LOGSPLITTERFINISHED003_zps63902141.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/LOGSPLITTERFINISHED003_zps63902141.jpg.html)

Black Forest
02-08-2015, 12:45 PM
Brian, hook it up to a drill or your mill. We want to see splits.

Did you read my PM?

brian Rupnow
02-08-2015, 02:57 PM
BlackForest--I didn't get a PM from you.---Brian

brian Rupnow
02-08-2015, 04:06 PM
Here ya go boys and girls. This is fun!!! I hope you enjoy the pictures of my old bald head while I am picking up wood off the floor. If anybody wants a complete set of drawings, email me at brupnow@rogers.com.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ts60HeWkKg8&feature=youtu.be

millwrong
02-08-2015, 04:24 PM
That is utterly delightful! Thanks,Brian, your creativity,and relentless energy is inspirational!

Black Forest
02-08-2015, 05:04 PM
Call it the NanoSplitter. You just need a thousand of them to make enough wood for winter.

brian Rupnow
02-08-2015, 05:22 PM
Luc--Since you mentioned o-rings in an earlier post, I thought I would post this for you. This is one of the few times that I didn't use an o-ring to drive one of my "creations".---Not because I couldn't have, but because I didn't want to cut a v-groove in the face of one of my flywheels. This "rubberish" flat belt drive with the corrugated inner surface is 5/8" wide x .093" thick, and grips like a tiger on a flat pulley. There is a vacuum cleaner repair place not too far from where I live, and occasionally I go down and root around through their scrap bin to see what goodies I can salvage. That is the origin of this flat belt. Surprisingly, their isn't much feed-back from the splitter to the engine when I split a piece of wood. The engine doesn't even falter. The inertia of the two steel flywheels on the splitter is doing all of the work. Probably an o-ring would have worked fine, but it would have been difficult to keep on the flat pulley.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow022/PICTUREOFFLATBELTDRIVE001_zps20f72401.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow022/PICTUREOFFLATBELTDRIVE001_zps20f72401.jpg.html)

Duffy
02-08-2015, 06:48 PM
Hey Brian, I did not realize that you were another southpaw engineer:)! That is REALLY why your designs work so well.

dp
02-08-2015, 06:54 PM
Love it!

brian Rupnow
02-08-2015, 06:55 PM
Duffy--Now I'm curious. why do you think I'm a southpaw?---Brian

Toolguy
02-08-2015, 08:24 PM
Looks great Brian! That engine runs like a champ too!:)

Duffy
02-08-2015, 10:43 PM
Brian, at about 2min 12 sec of your video, I can see your left hand and it has your wedding band and on your pinky is what I assume is your iron ring. Also, there is no ring on your right pinky. Am I wrong, or dont you wear your iron ring on your "working" hand?

brian Rupnow
02-09-2015, 07:55 AM
Duffy--I wear my ring on my left hand because it interferes with my writing if I wear it on my right. Back when I was a kid in school, I had a disagreement with an axe, and it left some heavy scar tissue on my right finger where the ring would normally fit.--Brian

Jon Heron
02-09-2015, 08:07 AM
That is great!
Another fine job and presentation Brian!
Thanks for the show!
Jon

iMisspell
02-09-2015, 11:41 AM
Hahaha.... that thing is great !
Thanks for the video.

_

Gary Paine
02-09-2015, 02:01 PM
Great, Brian. I'm very impressed. I had myself convinced when you found yourself faced with a proportionally large pinion gear that without slowing the RPM, there would be gnashing of gear teeth and an explosive engagement and ram travel. Your foresight and persistence is inspirational. Are those flywheels really turning at 300 RPM when you so smoothly engage the pinion?

brian Rupnow
02-09-2015, 04:01 PM
Gary--No. I already had a 2" dia. pulley on the engine which gives me a 1.93:1 pulley ratio to the 3.88" dia. flywheels. The engine was turning an estimated 1000 rpm. That would make the flywheels turning about 518 rpm. No gnashing or grinding at all.

J Harp
02-09-2015, 06:48 PM
Brian, good job on the splitter, I thought there would be some gear grinding, but there's none that I can hear. Since you seem to like to mix wood and steel, is there a board operated drop hammer in your future?

About engines, have you considered a reversing triple expansion marine engine? I'm confident you could do it. You continue to amaze me with your ability to build things which work.

Edit, should have said build models, not build things.

steve herman
02-10-2015, 03:32 AM
thttp://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/648ee159-4c62-4c8d-85fd-0ae3d487b405.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/648ee159-4c62-4c8d-85fd-0ae3d487b405.jpg.html)
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/012.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/012.jpg.html)

steve herman
02-10-2015, 03:56 AM
the clutch is held in the unengaged position with spring an levers, the black handle is pulled to engage and the arm flys forward and is brought back to rest with springs. it all happens in one or two seconds. ill try to post more pic.,

brian Rupnow
02-10-2015, 08:05 AM
Steve--Thanks---I'm still not seeing what it is on the flywheel that moves the splitter/pusher.---Brian

Toolguy
02-10-2015, 09:47 AM
It looks to me like the (almost) horizontal red arm goes down around vertical to move the ram, then swings back up to (almost) horizontal to return.

brian Rupnow
02-10-2015, 10:02 AM
I think I'm beginning to get a glimmer of how it works--He is using the whole clutch assembly---flywheel, pressure plate, throw out bearing and friction disc, and using the clutch as a clutch to engage/disengage the red pusher arm linkage. (which appears to move only 1/4 turn)?

rowbare
02-10-2015, 10:51 AM
Very nice job! It really makes short work of splitting those dowels. My mind was ready for slower movement like a hydraulic splitter. I did a bit of a double take when it split the wood in a fraction of a second.

Tres cool.

bob

steve herman
02-11-2015, 03:38 AM
the red arm is attached to a 1" shaft that has a spline on the end just like on an auto. I bought a spline and shaft from the surplus center in Lincoln NE, machined out the spline on the clutch plate and welded in the new spline. the silver tube houses a large round truck spring to limit and cushion the forward movement, yes, also using the throw out bearing.

steve herman
02-11-2015, 03:54 AM
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/008_2.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/008_2.jpg.html)










the fly wheel are two 16" well casing caps welded together an machined with a slight crown

George Seal
02-11-2015, 07:38 AM
Brian
How many broom handles must die to make a cord of firewood?????????????

Once again great work

brian Rupnow
02-11-2015, 08:01 AM
George--A full cord of wood is 48 high x 48 wide x 96 long. That is 221,184 cubic inches of wood. A broom handle log 1" diameter x 1.5" long is 1.18 cubic inches. That makes it 187,842 broom handle logs. That's a lot of splitting and piling!!!

bruto
02-11-2015, 06:52 PM
George--A full cord of wood is 48 high x 48 wide x 96 long. That is 221,184 cubic inches of wood. A broom handle log 1" diameter x 1.5" long is 1.18 cubic inches. That makes it 187,842 broom handle logs. That's a lot of splitting and piling!!!Better get busy. Winter of 2016 is just around the corner.

boaterri
02-11-2015, 07:21 PM
But remember, this is a scale model of a log splitter so the cord of wood would be a scale cord. Much smaller. 8^)

Rick

brian Rupnow
02-11-2015, 08:13 PM
We have a lot of chipmunks around here in the summer. Maybe I will buy them safety boots and glasses and put the little buggers to work getting next years firewood ready.---Brian

Mcostello
02-11-2015, 09:44 PM
Did You make a model DR woodsplitter, needs to be painted red. :)

steve herman
02-12-2015, 02:54 AM
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/001_2.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/001_2.jpg.html)




This is a side view, there are two bras pins that bear on the throw out bearing they slide through the round piece that has the hinge welded to the top, the channel iron piece hinges back and forth to in & disingauge the clutch.

brian Rupnow
02-12-2015, 09:14 AM
Steve--when the clutch engages and the red arm swings to move the pusher along it's slide to split the wood, does something on the red arm hit the engagement lever to disengage the clutch? I can't believe you would depend on hand/eye response time to disengage it before the motor bogged down at the end of travel. It is a very ingenious wood splitter.---Brian

steve herman
02-12-2015, 08:49 PM
No, I had set up a disengage notch type thing out of 1" sq steel and a 3/4 bolt but it ripped it right of. the round tube has a large coil spring that is attached to the red arm that controls the distance of travel.
I just jerk the lever and let go . if I held the lever it would just stall the engine. the fly wheel weighs over a 100 lbs and the gas engine only need to run just above idle. I think I have a pic of the coil spring set up without the tube installed, ill post it. In the disengage stage the lever is under a lot of spring presser to over come the presser plate springs so when I let go of the handle it just resets. I hope this helps. Its a mean machine but it works. I use it mostly to break 2x4s in half for my wood stove in my shop

steve herman
02-12-2015, 10:41 PM
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/006_3.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/006_3.jpg.html)











The rod is attached to the red arm, the slack is the distance the arm travels before it hits the spring, there is a second spring on top that pulls the arm back plus the recoil of the large spring.

steve herman
02-13-2015, 03:03 AM
http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/ac4f70f6-c07f-4e54-b8c3-0c96a1240e86.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/ac4f70f6-c07f-4e54-b8c3-0c96a1240e86.jpg.html)


http://i784.photobucket.com/albums/yy126/steveherman/262f0dd9-3608-4188-a51b-74927086371f.jpg (http://s784.photobucket.com/user/steveherman/media/262f0dd9-3608-4188-a51b-74927086371f.jpg.html)





My version of the DR.

brian Rupnow
02-13-2015, 12:43 PM
Somebody asked the other day what I used to skid the broom trees out of the closet and over to my sawmill/buzzsaw/woodspliter. Well Jeeez!!!---Of course---I use my donkey engine/winch.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE001_zps07a3972f.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE001_zps07a3972f.jpg.html)
http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE002_zpsa6a3c326.jpg.html
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE003_zps8312a34a.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE003_zps8312a34a.jpg.html)
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE002_zpsa6a3c326.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE002_zpsa6a3c326.jpg.html)

Jon Heron
02-13-2015, 01:52 PM
Your my hero!
How many models have you built?
Cheers,
Jon

sasquatch
02-13-2015, 05:29 PM
Great postings Brian, enjoy the pics and commentary.

brian Rupnow
02-13-2015, 06:22 PM
Jon--I probably have about 25 setting around my office. I think I have 6 steam engines, 8 or 9 i.c. engines, and ten "things" to run with my engines. Sasquatch, it's always nice to hear from you.----Brian

Duffy
02-13-2015, 06:50 PM
Brian, now you have ALMOST all of the wood converting machines , have you considered building a horizontal shingle mill? I saw one set up, but unfortunately not yet operating, at a steam show in Lakefield or Mount Albert many years ago. It had a 36" or so blade, mounted such that it was completely flat, ie a depressed hub I guess, and a shingle bolt holder swung across the face of the blade slicing off a thin slice. The holder was cocked such that the slice was tapered, and somehow on the next pass, the holder cocked the opposite direction, to slice the next shingle. The shingle bolt was thus always more or less flat, with the holding claws near the top edge. This way, all but about one inch of each bolt was used. A slice from a 16" or 20" white cedar log would yield 4 t0 8 bolts and the shingles would range from 10" down to 4" wide, the rest being waste.

brian Rupnow
02-13-2015, 07:20 PM
Sounds neat Duffy, but I have never seen one.

J Harp
02-13-2015, 09:41 PM
Brian, how about a barrel stave mill. I watched one about 40 years ago which cut coming and going. The saw blade is a cylinder which has teeth on both ends, I couldn't see how it was mounted, but all I can think of is that it must be held by rollers on the back side, and somehow driven.

It can't have an axle and spokes because either the bolt or the cut stave has to pass thru the inside of the cylinder. The bolt is the chunk of wood from which the staves are cut.

Maybe someone out there has worked in such a mill and can tell us how it works.

Black Forest
02-14-2015, 03:10 AM
Somebody asked the other day what I used to skid the broom trees out of the closet and over to my sawmill/buzzsaw/woodspliter. Well Jeeez!!!---Of course---I use my donkey engine/winch.
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE001_zps07a3972f.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE001_zps07a3972f.jpg.html)
http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE002_zpsa6a3c326.jpg.html
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE003_zps8312a34a.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE003_zps8312a34a.jpg.html)
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn294/BrianRupnow/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE002_zpsa6a3c326.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/BrianRupnow/media/BrianRupnow023/DONKEYENGINEANDSAWBLADE002_zpsa6a3c326.jpg.html)

Brian, I really laughed when I saw these pictures. I hope you wife wasn't around when you were hauling your timber into the mill. If so the next sound you hear might be the doorbell ringing. It will be the men in white suits with a very long sleeved jacket for you to wear on the way to the nut house!

I love your posts! Keep up the good work.

sasquatch
02-14-2015, 08:16 PM
Duffy, years ago i watched a shingle mill run at Upper Canada village, but cannot remember if it was horizontal or verticle blade. There were both at one time. Sweet machine to observe!!

brian Rupnow
02-14-2015, 08:28 PM
BlackForest--My wife knows I'm crazy. I've been this way for years. It's fun to be crazy!!! Being old AND crazy is okay. I didn't used to be crazy, but life wasn't nearly as much fun then!!!

brian Rupnow
02-14-2015, 08:30 PM
Brian, how about a barrel stave mill. I watched one about 40 years ago which cut coming and going. The saw blade is a cylinder which has teeth on both ends, I couldn't see how it was mounted, but all I can think of is that it must be held by rollers on the back side, and somehow driven.

It can't have an axle and spokes because either the bolt or the cut stave has to pass thru the inside of the cylinder. The bolt is the chunk of wood from which the staves are cut.

Maybe someone out there has worked in such a mill and can tell us how it works.

J harp--I haven't seen one of them either.

dp
02-14-2015, 08:47 PM
Here's one. Looks like a mongo hole saw.

http://vintagemachinery.org/photoindex/detail.aspx?id=2547

J Harp
02-14-2015, 10:06 PM
Here's video of one probably a bit smaller than the one dp linked to. It also shows a shingle mill, and a keg heading machine working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_wVLVRF7As

My dad worked for the Buffalo Stave Co. in the early 1940's. He drove a team of big horses snaking logs. He took me to the mill one day and we watched it work for a while, the mill was all powered except the sawyer placed the bolts on the carriage by hand, then pulled levers to feed it through the saw and bring it back out and advance it for the next cut. This mill only cut in one direction, then returned for the next cut.

I used to buy firewood from the mill I mentioned last night. The sawyer was the one who collected the money, so I got to watch until he took a break to collect for the load of wood.

The stave bolt was placed on the carriage by machinery I think, then two saws swing down and lopped the ends off, then the bolt was clamped and run back and forth through the saw taking a stave off each time it passed the blade. It cut a stave while passing right to left, then another stave while passing left to right, didn't take long to saw up a bolt.

J Harp
02-14-2015, 10:11 PM
Here's video of one probably a bit smaller than the one dp linked to. It also shows a shingle mill, and a keg heading machine working.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w_wVLVRF7As

My dad worked for the Buffalo Stave Co. in the early 1940's. He drove a team of big horses snaking logs. He took me to the mill one day and we watched it work for a while, the mill was all powered except the sawyer placed the bolts on the carriage by hand, then pulled levers to feed it through the saw and bring it back out and advance it for the next cut. This mill only cut in one direction, then returned for the next cut.

I used to buy firewood from the mill I mentioned last night. The sawyer was the one who collected the money, so I got to watch until he took a break to collect for the load of wood.

The stave bolt was placed on the carriage by machinery I think, then two saws swing down and lopped the ends off, then the bolt was clamped and run back and forth through the saw taking a stave off each time it passed the blade. It cut a stave while passing right to left, then another stave while passing left to right, didn't take long to saw up a bolt.

brian Rupnow
02-15-2015, 07:43 AM
Fascinating machinery to watch. It appears that the barrel staves were only cut with a curve on the outer face, but left flat on the inner face.

Northernsinger
02-15-2015, 08:07 AM
Thank you for showing that apple barrel mill, a pretty nice video and a lot more hardworking than a lot of these demonstration videos appear to be.

I worked in two small mills and one medium sized. Making wood into smaller pieces all day and all year long at those places takes a lot of work.

Black Forest
02-15-2015, 09:04 AM
Fascinating machinery to watch. It appears that the barrel staves were only cut with a curve on the outer face, but left flat on the inner face.

It seemed to me that once the first one was cut that both sides would be curved on the rest until the last one. Or did I miss something?

Northernsinger
02-15-2015, 09:51 AM
By the way it seems to me that they were spruce poles that the apple barrel makers were using, but the description of the video says its pine. I would have guessed spruce from the look of the bark, the sawed wood, and my idea or experience that pine would be too resin-ey for a food crate n(I don't believe the wood is dried before being assembled into this kind of container). Any confirmation of this, one way or the other?

J Harp
02-15-2015, 01:19 PM
Brian,
If you will note when the sawyer turns the log to cut another side, you can see the interior curvature. Also the platen that the log lays on is curved, and the curvature of both sides is visible as the fellow runs the staves through the edger.

Northernsinger,
In the comments, insanelogger who says his father owns the mill says they only cut white cedar. I'm not familiar with either spruce or white cedar, so far as I know those trees don't grow to any extent in southeastern KY. The mill is in Bridgewater ME.

2ManyHobbies
02-15-2015, 02:02 PM
Brian, how does that thing work with tree nuts and wine corks? LOL!

brian Rupnow
02-15-2015, 02:34 PM
I had it wrong. I watched the video again and seen that the wood is curved on both surfaces. I would love to see a mill like that in person.---Brian

jdunmyer
02-15-2015, 04:15 PM
Brian, now you have ALMOST all of the wood converting machines , have you considered building a horizontal shingle mill? I saw one set up, but unfortunately not yet operating, at a steam show in Lakefield or Mount Albert many years ago. It had a 36" or so blade, mounted such that it was completely flat, ie a depressed hub I guess, and a shingle bolt holder swung across the face of the blade slicing off a thin slice. The holder was cocked such that the slice was tapered, and somehow on the next pass, the holder cocked the opposite direction, to slice the next shingle. The shingle bolt was thus always more or less flat, with the holding claws near the top edge. This way, all but about one inch of each bolt was used. A slice from a 16" or 20" white cedar log would yield 4 t0 8 bolts and the shingles would range from 10" down to 4" wide, the rest being waste.

Here's a pic of a shingle mill like you describe:

http://www.oldengine.org/shows/5pts97/jul20_07.jpg

The operator pulls the RH handle to the left, clamping the bolt, then pushes it into the blade with both hands. Pulls the carriage back, unclamps the bolt, then tips it by pushing on either the LH or RH end of the bolt. Clamp it again, and push. The bolt is laying on the 2 bars, and those rock on their attachment to the carriage. These things work well, but are a LOT more work than those seen in that video. We have 2 or 3 of this type at the Buckley, MI show.