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View Full Version : Advice, Need Adapter to Use S. Bend (2 1/4 -8 Spindle) Chucks on - ASA D1-4 Lathe



HighFly27
02-01-2015, 05:28 PM
I just bought a lathe that has -- ASA D1-4 Head. I got the lathe with only (1) six inch chuck.

I have (3) chucks from my South Bend lathe. My spindle size is a common size [ 2 1/4 - 8. ]

I looked at the Enco web site. I found a number of adapters (backing plates) to adapter the -- D1-4 to various type chucks but not what I need to do.

It seems that... someone would make an adapter for the - D1- 4 to screw on/ in the (female) 2 1/4- 8 chuck. My (3) chucks are in good shape, and costly to buy new ones.

I'm not concerned about dead on accuracy. I'm making some bushings and using the 4 jaw chuck to turn the barrels of hyd. cylinders @ low rpm for honing the bores.


Thanks,

Avery

RussZHC
02-01-2015, 05:48 PM
Are those three chucks you have "native" 2 1/4 x 8tpi?
As in the internal threads are part of the chuck? As opposed to being threads cut into a backplate?

If they are setup with a backplate, then don't they just swap over to the D1-4 version, cut to the correct diameter?

If they are native thread, then to get an adapter to go from the D1-4 to thread, it "undoes" one of the features of those spindles noses not threaded, that being the possibility of spinning off when going in reverse.
IIRC, there was a thread here about making your own "D" series backing plate that could be a start...

HighFly27
02-01-2015, 06:31 PM
RussZHC and All,

Yes, the spindle threads (2 1/4 - 8 T) are native (integral) to the chucks and not attaching to a backing plate. These (3) chucks are about 40 years old and in good shape.

I'm aware of the spin off in reverse. This will not be a problem for me; I'm turning (only) in one direction for the small job that I'm doing with the lathe.

Avery

Gary Paine
02-01-2015, 08:02 PM
I am not aware that what you seek is available, but it appears you can get the D1-4 backplate for about $60. A stub could be welded to that and turned and threaded in place. The chuck will end up a bit further out from the headstock, but it should work. Concentricity would be assured.

HighFly27
02-01-2015, 08:45 PM
Yes, I've looked at several different backing plates available. They basically match up to the diameter of the chucks.

Some of backing adapter plates are pre-drilled with 3 holes. I assume, I could accurately locate (center) the chuck to the adapter plate. I would not require a male stub adapter (2 1/4 - 8) at all. I don't know how short the (3) machine screws can be drilled and tapped into the back of the older style chucks. Also, I'd have a safer mounting and the chuck would not spin off in reverse.

I'm guessing, someone has done something like this before and would like to hear from them.

Avery

lost_cause
02-01-2015, 11:38 PM
Some of backing adapter plates are pre-drilled with 3 holes. I assume, I could accurately locate (center) the chuck to the adapter plate. I would not require a male stub adapter (2 1/4 - 8) at all. I don't know how short the (3) machine screws can be drilled and tapped into the back of the older style chucks. Also, I'd have a safer mounting and the chuck would not spin off in reverse.

a threaded chuck is meant to mount and register against the shoulder where the threads are. i would assume that the holes in a d1-4 backing plate are near the outside edge and are meant to register against the outer edge of a plain back chuck. unless you could guarantee that the integral boss on the chuck where the threads are cut is perfectly flush with the outside edge of the chuck then i don't think you could guarantee the chuck would be aligned with the spindle.

a picture is worth a thousand words. maybe i don't see it correctly, or maybe if we saw the chucks it would be more clear.

J. Randall
02-01-2015, 11:44 PM
Yes, I've looked at several different backing plates available. They basically match up to the diameter of the chucks.

Some of backing adapter plates are pre-drilled with 3 holes. I assume, I could accurately locate (center) the chuck to the adapter plate. I would not require a male stub adapter (2 1/4 - 8) at all. I don't know how short the (3) machine screws can be drilled and tapped into the back of the older style chucks. Also, I'd have a safer mounting and the chuck would not spin off in reverse.

I'm guessing, someone has done something like this before and would like to hear from them.

Avery

If I am picturing your proposal correctly, I don't think it is a good idea. If the 3 screws are going to be the only thing locating your chuck to the new backplate(no spigot on the new adapter, or no recess in the back of the chuck to locate it.)
James

HighFly27
02-02-2015, 12:15 AM
Hello All,

Now, I think it's best to wait and have both of the lathes picked up and home before I do anything.

1. The (1st) is a Logan 14," model 6560 H, it has a -- 2 1/4 - 8 thread spindle.

2. The (2nd) is a Lux Matter, model 1440 G with the D1-4 spindle.

3. My (3) chucks (2 1/4 -8 T.) are in PA, currently, I'm having the (1) 4 jaw chuck sent down to FL from PA.

Conclusion:

My (3) chucks in PA will go right on the Logan 14 lathe that was just bought and in FL but not delivered yet.

More news, I (just) bought a 2nd lathe, a 1999 Lux Matter lathe, model 1440 G. The lathe was a super deal @ $ 450.00. This lathe was used very lightly during it's life. It was just removed from service when the company bought new machines in January. The folks in the tool room questioned why it was being replaced; they never used it & it was a decent lathe. The new lathe they just bought will be lightly used as well, go figure. The 1440 did not come with a lot of tooling i.e. 6 inch 3 jaw chuck, 2 centers, drill chuck, tool post, a few bits.

I wanted to have both lathes set up & up & running ASAP. However, I might be smarter to buy a mid level quality -- 10 in., 4 jaw chuck for a D1- 4 spindle. I'm guessing, around $ 200.00 + for a used chuck. My Penna. 2 1/4 -8 / 4 jaw chuck is being shipped to me from PA on 3 Feb. for the Logan 14. I'll be able to make a better decision when the PA 4 jaw chuck arrives and both lathes are here too.

I thought this adaptation (2 1/4 -8 T. to D1-4) chuck process would/ could be ABC, now it seems like XYZ and problematic.



Avery

beckley23
02-02-2015, 03:34 PM
When the cam locks are loosened on the D type spindle, a small tap on the back of the chuck should be necessary to get the chuck off. The rear flat face of the spindle is the register for the D type spindles, the taper section locates the chuck on the spindle. I've made a couple D1-3 collet holders for my EE's, it's not a walk in the park, and precision is required.


You're better off buying new chucks, and dedicating the chucks to the lathe.
Harry

Carm
02-02-2015, 04:49 PM
Warning! I may misunderstand your stated conditions.

If you can obtain an appropriate D series backplate, you can counterbore the existing chuck OD into the plate to a depth providing sufficient room and clearance for four (4) radial setscrews that pinch the OD of the chuck. You will need co-axial screws to pull the chuck against the D backplate, which are snugged sufficient to allow the four setscrews to act as "Set-Tru" adjusters.

For safety's sake , don't allow any protrusions radially. The setscrew "heads" are below the backplate circumference.

HighFly27
02-02-2015, 06:19 PM
Carm and All,

Yes, I saw the recessed area for Hex Socket Head Screws in the Backing Plates.

I'm going to wait and get all my lathes home & everything laid out. I'll measure the (1) 4 jaw check that's off of my South Bend (2 1/4 - 8) and find a adapter plate that matches up to the OD diameter and hole ( 2 1/4") size.

The No# 1 concern is mounting the backing plate to be 99.9/ 100% concentric with 4 jaw chuck when it's mounted on the lathe with the D1-4 spindle. The key is centering the backing plate on the older 4 jaw chuck; then drilling & tapping the holes. I realize that the hex head screws must have close tolerance shank bodies to maintain (centered) bore alignment and secured with Loctite.

Bear me with, I've been away from machinery for about ten years. I worked as an machine operator, 2nd shift, when I was in trade school in the 70's. Now at 66, I'm struggling to remember some of the things ref. machinist terms & the like that I once knew fairly well.


Avery

J. Randall
02-02-2015, 11:22 PM
Carm and All,

Yes, I saw the recessed area for Hex Socket Head Screws in the Backing Plates.

I'm going to wait and get all my lathes home & everything laid out. I'll measure the (1) 4 jaw check that's off of my South Bend (2 1/4 - 8) and find a adapter plate that matches up to the OD diameter and hole ( 2 1/4") size.

The No# 1 concern is mounting the backing plate to be 99.9/ 100% concentric with 4 jaw chuck when it's mounted on the lathe with the D1-4 spindle. The key is centering the backing plate on the older 4 jaw chuck; then drilling & tapping the holes. I realize that the hex head screws must have close tolerance shank bodies to maintain (centered) bore alignment and secured with Loctite.

Bear me with, I've been away from machinery for about ten years. I worked as an machine operator, 2nd shift, when I was in trade school in the 70's. Now at 66, I'm struggling to remember some of the things ref. machinist terms & the like that I once knew fairly well.


Avery

Still sounds to me like you want to depend on those 3 bolts coming through the back plate for alignment and retention both. Their sole purpose is for retention only, you need a spigot and recess, or some kind of a taper for alignment and strength. There is a lot of centrifugal force on that chuck when spun up to the higher speeds.
James

HighFly27
02-03-2015, 12:22 AM
J. Randall and All,

Your Right, some backing plates are basic and not the right answer. I waiting to get my (2) lathes home and my S. B. 4 jaw chuck delivered to FL from PA.

I have viewed a number of the chuck backing plates with -- a recess cut into the back side. They have (6) bolts not (3) bolts securing the chuck to the backing plate & the recess cut out on the larger chuck sizes. The 4 jaw I want to use is at least a -- 10 in. dia. chuck. I have not looked at my old S. Bend lathe tooling since 2009. I took care of everything before I came down to FL in 2009. It's all stored in a wood cabinet with a heavy spray of WD-40 & oily shop towels laying over them to prevent flash rusting.

Again, if I can find the right backing plate and it's a good strong mounting set up... I'll try it. The big 4 jaw chuck I have is like new, I'd like to use it. I priced used -- 10 inch (4) jaws on EBay, they were expensive. I found (1) 6 inch for $ 175.00 and the jaws were beat up. The used price (10 in.) price was around $ 375.00 to $750.00 for name brand chucks. The china (new) stuff was around $ 400.00 to $ 650.00... they can keep them.

Avery

beckley23
02-03-2015, 03:41 PM
Check into speed ratings on the chucks. Cast iron chucks are lower rated than steel chucks, and are more expensive as a result. Safety is not something to fool around with.
Harry

Old Hat
02-04-2015, 04:31 AM
Warning! I may misunderstand your stated conditions.

If you can obtain an appropriate D series backplate, you can counterbore the existing chuck OD into the plate to a depth providing sufficient room and clearance for four (4) radial setscrews that pinch the OD of the chuck. You will need co-axial screws to pull the chuck against the D backplate, which are snugged sufficient to allow the four setscrews to act as "Set-Tru" adjusters.

For safety's sake , don't allow any protrusions radially. The setscrew "heads" are below the backplate circumference.

+1
Really the only good way to do this, IMHO.