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wierdscience
02-02-2015, 09:34 PM
Has anybody here had experience with these guys?

http://www.socketsystems.com/

I like the concept and see the advantages it offers,just wondering if anyone had tried them and wondering what the hardware costs vs home brewing my own?

A.K. Boomer
02-02-2015, 10:18 PM
are your joints going to be exposed like in under a nice indoor patio or something with cedar wood?

then could really look cool - but im sure expensive ------------ is it going to be buried in an attic? then just use building splices,,, way way cheaper...

Old Hat
02-02-2015, 10:19 PM
Concept looks good to me.
As long as all those fittings were welded correctly, I bet it would be Fine.
Haven't used the stuff, just evaluating.

wierdscience
02-02-2015, 11:06 PM
I like the looks of them,I need to build a shop building,maybe a 30x50',but without borrowing a ton of money from a bank.

This system looks like I could pour the foundation and then get the structure cut,bolted together and stored,ready to be assembled at a later date.

flylo
02-03-2015, 06:34 AM
Better run this idea by the local builing inspector as they want truss drawings verifying live/deag & snow loads here which are quite high due to lake effect & sme places you need certified stamped drawings. Here sheds up to 150sf & ag buildings don't need permits or drawings. As for trusses if you need none of this you can make trusses easily buy covering both sides of the joint with plywood as they did it for years.

old as dirt
02-03-2015, 09:31 AM
Metal attachment devices to located untreated posts on concrete are available from Simpson Strong Tie and Perma Column. These device isolate the posts from the concrete and use standard dimensioned lumber, laminated, rather than treated posts. Laminated posts (screw and glue will yield stronger posts and cost less that treated posts). Only treated lumber required is dirt boards to frame concrete and tie bottom of wall tin (2 X 6/8). The trusses can be inserted into the top of the posts for additional strength in high wind/snow load areas.

Trusses are available from your local truss supplier. Trusses are available with load bearing capabilities for storage. I'm in the mid stages of designing a building using the Perma Column brackets and manufactured load bearing trusses for a 35 X 50 X 12 eave wood frame metal clad building.

Suggest "system" is just a way to separate money and people. You can do the same or similar using conventional methods. Remember the shipping for the brackets cost a arm.
Perhaps not as elegant as "system", but I would venture considerably cheaper.

Rosco-P
02-03-2015, 11:13 AM
No prices on the website. Looks like timber frame construction without the timber frame joinery and tools. If approved in many localities, I see hoards of un-employed Amish and Mennonites.

wierdscience
02-03-2015, 02:45 PM
Better run this idea by the local builing inspector as they want truss drawings verifying live/deag & snow loads here which are quite high due to lake effect & sme places you need certified stamped drawings. Here sheds up to 150sf & ag buildings don't need permits or drawings. As for trusses if you need none of this you can make trusses easily buy covering both sides of the joint with plywood as they did it for years.

Building codes will be fine with it,county and city allow pole framed construction even for residences.No snow load where I am at,just wind.

Trying to avoid trusses,I've built loads of them,both wood and steel,just don't have the time to burn making my own.

wierdscience
02-03-2015, 02:51 PM
Metal attachment devices to located untreated posts on concrete are available from Simpson Strong Tie and Perma Column. These device isolate the posts from the concrete and use standard dimensioned lumber, laminated, rather than treated posts. Laminated posts (screw and glue will yield stronger posts and cost less that treated posts). Only treated lumber required is dirt boards to frame concrete and tie bottom of wall tin (2 X 6/8).

These also allow the use of dimensional laminated lumber,which is the way I would go.I don't want trusses for this application,this gets me closer to what a steel framed building offers.

Forrest Addy
02-03-2015, 09:15 PM
My first thought is lost motion. Sructural joints have to be restrained in all axes. If there is any clearance, the structure moves within the limits of these clearances. Imagine a swing set with loose bolts. You can grab in and shake it so it rattles against the fastener clearances. Tighten tne bolts and the swing set becomes a rigid unit.

Move forward to that heroic looking barn in th Socket Systems website image. A zillion loose sockets on milled lumber connections. If the connections are made by drilling in situ and inserting bolts and the sockets has splits so they grip the lumber the joint may be as stout as an equivalent mortice and tenon joint. But if the socket has clearance and the lumber is restrained with a few nails the joint effciency will be correspondingly low.

There there is seasonal moisture changes, code approvals, fire safety, conparative cost of construction, moisture related decomposition (it IS a metal socket), socket material deterioration from aging (plastic), corrosion (metal). Metal/wood composit construction has been around for generations - centuries. In he last 50 years, a large variety of galvanized steel connection products (someone mentioned Simpson Strong Ties and there are others) have become available off the shelf. They are efficient but non - NOT - atractive.

The promise of metal/wood connections has yet to be fully realzed. OTH, wood to wood joinery took only 3000 years to reach maturity so I don't anticipate a wood/metal connection solution that resolves seasonal dimensional changes, joint efficiency, cost, rigid connections, long term integrity, and broard authority approval very soon.

Good luck to the Socket Systems people. I wish them well.

lost_cause
02-03-2015, 09:45 PM
i made an individual bracket similar to those for a building i did for some family members. i did a 12x12 screen house with a hip roof and i made a pair of brackets to connect the diagonal rafters. i did it mainly to help me frame everything up since i was working without much help. it allowed me to connect all four hip rafters and have them free standing while i put up the rest of the rafters. as an added bonus, it looks pretty nice from below when you look up at it. 11ga plate sandwiching the rafters w/ 6 1/4" bolts per hip rafter if i remember correctly.

oh, by the way, it was built with no testing of the materials or welds, no code approval, no engineering and no stamp of any kind intended to give someone a warm fuzzy feeling that it is safe. it has, however, survived lots of heavy winds, heavy snowfall, and a few years of use without showing any signs that anything might fail - cause it won't.

digger_doug
02-04-2015, 03:19 PM
Metal attachment devices to located untreated posts on concrete are available from Simpson Strong Tie and Perma Column.

Suggest "system" is just a way to separate money and people. You can do the same or similar using conventional methods. Remember the shipping for the brackets cost a arm.
Perhaps not as elegant as "system", but I would venture considerably cheaper.

You obviously didn't look very well.

These sockets change lumber into "3 force members" able to withstand moments.

The simpson sockets do not.

Look closely you will see NO trusses, the lumber is now much like a pre-fab steel building that has the
tapered legs, and a "knee".

I worked with XXXXXX (the originator of this system) to try and streamline the manufacturing of these.

I can assure you they can be had with engineered drawing's for your locale.

What I would do differently:
1. Do not use standard box tubing and expect user to mill (or glue up) custom sizes
to fit socket, make socket to fit standard lumber.
2. the "tilt up hinge" feature is not really needed, skid loaders and gin poles are more common
now, than when the system was developed.

Trusses cost money. You need to get them up on a sill as well, that's more lumber and work.

Takes (4) pieces of lumber, shove them in the sockets and you have a complete frame.
Walls and roof all framed.

GKman
02-04-2015, 05:13 PM
The bending loads on the lumber just outside of the connectors would be phenomenal without the triangulation of trusses provide. Truss manufactures have access and use lumber much better than we can buy for stressed parts and can use cheap grades for compression members and they get both wholesale. Also at least around me there are plenty of truss manufactures and builders price shopping them every time. There isn't much profit in them. There are billions of post frame, metal covered buildings with manufactured wood trusses on seven foot centers because they work and there is nothing cheaper and faster.

I would encourage anybody to build with this socket fastener system or classic timber framing, just don't do it expecting to save any time or money.

boslab
02-04-2015, 05:39 PM
I don't know, something does appear odd about a portal frame like that, I suppose in extreme cases of snow load you could use a steel cable between the shoulders if you will to some eye bolts, just as a precaution, it would stop the roof from trying to flatten out perhaps.
The other thing is the timber itself, I would prefer stress graded C16 or C24 stuff myself rather than rough sawn, at least you know how it's going to deflect.
Other than minor things it looks like a good quick way to stick a building up, less fiddling with joints that are invariably nailed with 90mm ring shanks these days
Mark