PDA

View Full Version : Jones & Shipman Sine Centre - How's it used and is it worth anything ?



LHC
02-03-2015, 08:43 AM
Gents Ė
I have come across this thing and am wondering if someone can pontificate on how such a thing is used. I am guessing itís some ridiculously precise way to check tapers between centers. It came from an old metrology lab that was owned by a government organization and I am pretty sure it was never ever used. Check out the hand scraped surfaces from the factory !
Does this have any sort of value in todayís world or is it taking up more space than itís worth ?

http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn286/LHC_02/RPC/SC2_zpsbab7d4da.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/LHC_02/media/RPC/SC2_zpsbab7d4da.jpg.html)
http://i307.photobucket.com/albums/nn286/LHC_02/RPC/SC1_zps47ad0e0c.jpg (http://s307.photobucket.com/user/LHC_02/media/RPC/SC1_zps47ad0e0c.jpg.html)

Rosco-P
02-03-2015, 08:55 AM
Pure rubbish. they don't even know how to spell center where that lump was made.
Send it pre-paid shipping to me and I'll dispose of it properly.

Not much info, but: http://www.judgetool.com/taft-piercesinecenterstapertestingfixture.aspx

LHC
02-03-2015, 08:57 AM
Pure rubbish. they don't even know how to spell center where that lump was made.
Send it pre-paid shipping to me and I'll dispose of it properly.

Not much info, but: http://www.judgetool.com/taft-piercesinecenterstapertestingfixture.aspx

LOL - With responses like that I'm convinced I hit the jackpot. Thanks for the link - will check it out.

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 09:36 AM
What about the "lump" in the back-ground?
I'm more interested in that.

Rosco-P
02-03-2015, 09:40 AM
The blue rectangular lump with matching paint work, not the toothed yellow cylindrical lump.

Arthur.Marks
02-03-2015, 09:41 AM
Holy Lordy Lordy Lordy!!! I was dreaming of that thing when I wanted to check that Jarno taper bushing (http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/65475-Seeking-Jarno-12?p=962054#post962054) I just made! Are you kidding?! "Any sort of value (http://www.subtool.com/tp/9122_sine_block_taper_testing_fixture.html)" :D

P.S. - the "lump?" To place your indicator on and slide along the edge, of course!

Carm
02-03-2015, 09:41 AM
A beautiful piece of kit; you appear to have summarized the use.
What are the roll centres, metric presumably?
Worth and value? To a HSM, a great deal if one thinks beyond original use.
I know several jobbers who could use that; whether it is still viable these days with CMM and Faro, dunno.

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 09:43 AM
The blue rectangular lump with matching paint work, not the toothed yellow cylindrical lump.

Correct!

LHC
02-03-2015, 09:46 AM
So I'm thinking I should hang onto it and not toss it into the dumpster then ?

The lump on the back is part of the casting - it's the "level" surface you slide an indicator along I guess...

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 09:50 AM
Oh for the hight gage!
I'm toast, got up too early, yeah that's my excuse.:confused:

boslab
02-03-2015, 09:52 AM
It is a lovely thing, not something you see too often, my first encounter with the very same one was doing a course in a met lab, it ate my finger resulting in severe bleeding causing in the instructor freaking out about the corrosion I would cause with my obviously alien blood, they had the compound version also, someone wrote on the box, headache in a box one side and pandora a box but hope left too on the other, good catch, all you need now is a cylinder grinder to go with it, J&S made quite a tidy one
Your suckyness is only exceeded by your luckyness
Mark
Btw the Stanton company used to supply the national physical lab down the road in teddington

Rosco-P
02-03-2015, 09:52 AM
Worth and value? To a HSM, a great deal if one thinks beyond original use.

Care to expound on the use part?

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 10:00 AM
I was launched in 1974, and have run in fairly wide circles.
I've always pondered these things.
Every shop has at least one. It's usually the same color.
Gray! The color of 30 years of dust, all settled and hardened.

If you wish to examine one, often you have to brake it loose from it's home.
Often the same wooden shelf it was placed on before most of us were born.

Rosco-P
02-03-2015, 10:08 AM
Always it would be nice to have a set of precision bench centers for checking arbors for straightness, tapers and such. But not being a grind shop, it would probably sit covered more than it would get used. School shop has one, it just sits in the instructors storeroom, heaped with stuff, covered with dust.

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 10:17 AM
Putting a cover on a thing!
WoW! what a concept?

I think I saw a thing with a cover over it long ago....
It probably wasn't and ISO approved cover... .. buy hey.

Rosco-P
02-03-2015, 10:21 AM
The sine center and its reference block would probably have to be set up on a surflace plate? Correct? At least a 24 x 24" pink granite, if not larger.

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 10:28 AM
I think he meant, that's where this unit is an exception? It's all one casting?
If so it could be used out on the floor, as a stand alone.

Carm
02-03-2015, 10:31 AM
LHC,

What are the roll centres distance? I see 25" on the tag, my sense of scale ain't so good, and I thought the Brits went metric after the Titanic went down.

Arthur.Marks
02-03-2015, 10:31 AM
That unit would likely be found on a granite plate, but it is self sufficient as made. The one shown is a centers sine plate. It has its own integral flat reference plate which the rolls reference against. The centers are 20" between rolls? The plate says 25", but I suspect that is the length of the full mounting plate for the two centers. Why so long? Because, remember, with this you are measuring half angles from center--not included angles. By fact of the centers being twice as far apart as a standard 10" sine plate, the gage block stacks have some more height for setting very small angles as are found on self-holding tapers, etc. (i.e. 1-2 degrees).

re: scale. I think the sense of scale is not being adequately conveyed by the pictures. This thing is big. It wouldn't fit on a 24x24" granite flat without hanging off the edges more than a couple inches on either side.

Depends on the shop. I've beeen in a shop that almost strictly makes industrial rollers (printing press rollers, processing plant rollers, etc.). There wasn't a flat surface plate in sight. Bench centers were everywhere. 99% of their machining was between centers, so all their metrology gear was too.

LHC
02-03-2015, 10:37 AM
LHC,

What are the roll centres distance? I see 25" on the tag, my sense of scale ain't so good, and I thought the Brits went metric after the Titanic went down.


25" roll centres distance. Measured with a precision 25 foot stanley carpenters tape......

I can't see myself ever using this contraption but it is cool nonethelsss.......

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 10:39 AM
My Crystal ball says you will soon receive a PM
from a member in Chicago Ill. ;)

Carm
02-03-2015, 11:05 AM
LHC, Thanks for the reply.
Mr.Marks I agree with your surmise but was puzzled by 25 CTC.

DR
02-03-2015, 11:16 AM
Sine center? Okay, it must tilt up from one end or other. But, the area visible in the picture doesn't show a precision surface to left or right of what appear to be pins to pivot up on.

BTW, it amazing how much stuff like this gets thrown out. Long time ago I was going to a meeting with my contact at a medical equipment customer. There in the parking lot near the loading dock was a dumpster large enough to drive my car into. At the far end of the dumpster was a Bridgeport mill that I knew to be fairly new, along with work benches and assorted other machinery, garbage and tooling. Like most of us on here I went in and started gathering what I wanted. Before I could get anything out along came a Brinks guard telling me to get out of there immediately while pointing at the biohazard signs I had ignored.

What was happening was the company was moving to another facility and their boss was paranoid of industrial espionage. His thoughts were that someone might get their hands on the Bridgeport and somehow be able to determine what sort of prototype products they had being developing on it. Ridiculous, of course......but in the whole scheme of things the value of that B'port was chicken feed compared to the company's earnings.

Old Hat
02-03-2015, 11:51 AM
Review the pic #1
See the round caps, likely covering two pin-bores.

boslab
02-03-2015, 12:07 PM
We used it on a 5' surface table, not just for taper, but for exercises like one of my favourites, a crankshaft, it fitted between centres quite well, off some car, which it didn't know but you had to check straightness, concentricity and so on, I actually enjoyed that a lot.
Watch it don't eat your fingers!
Mark

OKChipmaker
02-03-2015, 12:35 PM
One of the plants I worked in,used 1 in incoming tooling inspection.Used to check the size of teeth on box broaches (think boxend wrenches 6 and 12 points)each tooth had to take a certan amount of materal off.

Forrest Addy
02-03-2015, 12:41 PM
So I'm thinking I should hang onto it and not toss it into the dumpster then ?

The lump on the back is part of the casting - it's the "level" surface you slide an indicator along I guess...

Yeah, that would be a good plan. There's been times I despaately needed a gadget like that. Low usage but so super handy for tapered age making which I've had to do year to year.

demerrill
02-03-2015, 12:52 PM
Google Images search 'sine centre':
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1346&bih=1052&q=Jones+%26+Shipman+Sine+Centre&oq=Jones+%26+Shipman+Sine+Centre&gs_l=img.12...35375.38208.0.40947.2.2.0.0.0.0.42.7 5.2.2.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.61.img..2.0.0.AWIJcyW_CQ Y#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=sine+centre&imgdii=_

David Merrill

demerrill
02-03-2015, 12:55 PM
Google Images search "sine center":
https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1346&bih=1052&q=Jones+%26+Shipman+Sine+Centre&oq=Jones+%26+Shipman+Sine+Centre&gs_l=img.12...35375.38208.0.40947.2.2.0.0.0.0.42.7 5.2.2.0.msedr...0...1ac.1.61.img..2.0.0.AWIJcyW_CQ Y#hl=en&tbm=isch&q=%22sine+center%22&imgdii=_

David Merrill

Peter S
02-05-2015, 07:59 AM
Here is the J&S sine centres taken from one of their brochures. This gives an idea of what you can use them for. You need a set of slip gauges (gauge blocks) to make use of them as shown.

I see it weighs 110 kgs!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/1003/PeterS/JampSsinecentrescatalogue68-4_zps77010e0e.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/PeterS/media/JampSsinecentrescatalogue68-4_zps77010e0e.jpg.html)

Lew Hartswick
02-05-2015, 08:17 AM
Pure rubbish. they don't even know how to spell center where that lump was made.

If youre born and grow up and live for 58 years in Centre County PA you tend to spell it that way all the time. 25 years later it still happens . :-)
...lew...

LHC
02-05-2015, 08:32 AM
Peter -
Thanks very much for that info.
Lewis