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oldtiffie
02-08-2015, 02:23 AM
Cognitive ability is used to evaluate people for a whole lot of reasons - driving and employment are but two of many.

What is "cognitive ability"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognition

How is it tested?

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=cognitive+ability

Should or can it be used in evaluation of the potential employee or candidate for advancement/promotion?

Does it apply in everyday life?

In the shop?

At work?

What if you cognitive ability is at or too low for:

Driving?

Machining?

At home

At work?

What do or can you do to retain or improve it?

What are some effects of too low a level of cognitive ability - and what do you do about it?

dp
02-08-2015, 02:46 AM
Cognition can be improved but it is an interesting problem to work with. The first problem is to recognize cognitive deficiency and to assess any significance it may have. I don't see how the "patient" can recognize this in themselves reliably, especially if they are truly deficient in some way. Few lay people have the ability to measure cognitive performance or even know what the units of measure are to even enumerate the degree of deficiency. Then there are metrics - you can't improve what you can't measure. That is a very specialized field and is 100% subjective based on years of data collection and reduction. The single greatest impediment is there's only one you and only one me, etc. Finding our fit in the data to establish a baseline should involve experts. And that brings us to the beginning. This journey needs to start with some self-evaluation and consideration any clues one may have that this may be an issue in their life. The simple answer to that question is "I don't know". There is only one next step - consult an expert and be honest as to what you are aware of and why you think this needs further evaluation.

As a general practice there are brain training exercises that can be practiced regardless of one's cognition, and these will include some means of measuring any change.

tyrone shewlaces
02-08-2015, 03:33 AM
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-gTLX1xQUEIc/Ucd2K5tQfsI/AAAAAAAABPc/zB87lewX1xE/s1600/um-duh.gif

A.K. Boomer
02-08-2015, 04:01 AM
I believe to be the most important line in Tiffers Wiki link;

Cognitive processes use existing knowledge and generate new knowledge.

oldtiffie
02-08-2015, 05:18 AM
There may be a whole suite of tests that apply to a great many situations - interviews for jobs or promotions are but two of many.

Every time I sense that I may not be up to doing what I want or need to do - including distractions etc.,- I check some of my critical reactions - going to the shop when I am tired or distracted or "just not with it" are two of several cases that I limited cognitive assessments with.

My next task is to try to evaluate the degree of risk and then apply a "loading" depending on circumstances. Once a pre-determined level of risk is approaching or has arrived I just walk away from the risk area or activity until the risk has subsided to an acceptable level.

This applies to a lot of stuff in the house or the shop.

It very much applies to driving the car.

I have to have my renal stents changed every 5 months - "Day Ward" - under anaesthesia. I do not drive for at least 2 days after and after that I check myself progressively and do no go past each stage until I've passed it. It can take another 2 to 4 days before I am back to normal.

Cognitive testing can support or utterly destroy statements made in CV's - so be careful.

House-hold and/or family or similar stresses can reduce cognitive ability as well.

Blackfoot
02-08-2015, 09:15 AM
Cognition can be improved but it is an interesting problem to work with. The first problem is to recognize cognitive deficiency and to assess any significance it may have. I don't see how the "patient" can recognize this in themselves reliably, especially if they are truly deficient in some way. Few lay people have the ability to measure cognitive performance or even know what the units of measure are to even enumerate the degree of deficiency. Then there are metrics - you can't improve what you can't measure. That is a very specialized field and is 100% subjective based on years of data collection and reduction. The single greatest impediment is there's only one you and only one me, etc. Finding our fit in the data to establish a baseline should involve experts. And that brings us to the beginning. This journey needs to start with some self-evaluation and consideration any clues one may have that this may be an issue in their life. The simple answer to that question is "I don't know". There is only one next step - consult an expert and be honest as to what you are aware of and why you think this needs further evaluation.

As a general practice there are brain training exercises that can be practiced regardless of one's cognition, and these will include some means of measuring any change.

After a serious closed head injury 20 years ago, I was aware that my thinking processes were not quite right. I finally decided that my measure or "wellness" was going to be the windows computer game "Freecell". I found that my ability to win was near zero. Every day, I played Freecell. It took several months to get back to winning every game.

And then there is this:

http://www.nytimes.com/library/national/science/health/011800hth-behavior-incompetents.html

Amazing how many of our "leaders" appear to fit in here.

DR
02-08-2015, 09:20 AM
There's POCD, postoperative cognitive dysfunction.

That's what happened to me after relativey minor hernia surgery. At the time of surgery I was installing a set of upper kitchen cabinets. Because of the hernia progress stopped on the kitchen. After a few weeks of recovery I was given the go ahead with the caution of "let pain be your limiter" as to lifting, etc.
I was feeling good and revisited the project only to find the simplest little problems seemed insurmountable. Not having a clue what was going on I put the project on hold for a month or so. After that period the problems that had completely stumped me seemed trivial.

Apparently, POCD can be related to how invasive the surgery is and also age related. An elderly friend had to be put in a care facility for several months before she recovered enough to live alone again. In her case there were questions whether she would ever completely recover, which she did.

dp
02-08-2015, 12:52 PM
I found that my ability to win was near zero. Every day, I played Freecell. It took several months to get back to winning every game.

Interesting test. That is a form of formulaic problem solving - a form that includes chess, for example. Solving more abstract problems where one has to analyze related data to form a prediction is another. A non-human, non-trivial example is https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uNHPh8TEAXM

Bruce123
02-08-2015, 05:19 PM
had I but known
bruce123

oldtiffie
02-08-2015, 05:31 PM
There's POCD, postoperative cognitive dysfunction.

That's what happened to me after relativey minor hernia surgery. At the time of surgery I was installing a set of upper kitchen cabinets. Because of the hernia progress stopped on the kitchen. After a few weeks of recovery I was given the go ahead with the caution of "let pain be your limiter" as to lifting, etc.
I was feeling good and revisited the project only to find the simplest little problems seemed insurmountable. Not having a clue what was going on I put the project on hold for a month or so. After that period the problems that had completely stumped me seemed trivial.

Apparently, POCD can be related to how invasive the surgery is and also age related. An elderly friend had to be put in a care facility for several months before she recovered enough to live alone again. In her case there were questions whether she would ever completely recover, which she did.

Good comment.

POCD is what affects me after an operation and anaesthesia - and it is largely "age-related".

I am 78.

What also affects me is the difference in the anaesthetic/s used by each anaesthetist - I've always recovered quite well as regards ability but "how I feel" and how competent I am and for how long to recover to "normal" does vary - even with the same operation at 5-monthly intervals.

I recovered very well in all respects in my operation previous to last (5 months ago) and I asked my anaesthetist last week if he could get as good a post-op recovery too - and he duplicated the previous anaesthetic/s and I got all that I wanted in that regard - and I am very pleased with the outcome.

Here is a good run-down on POCD:

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=pocd+%2B+age

It is essential that you/I be very honest with ourselves in this regard as if not taken seriously it can be "difficult" or potentially disastrous.

I try to realistically assess my level of competence on an on-going basis in terms of the level of risks needed and the degree of difficulty and level of safety of doing a task.

It is not difficult to do and becomes second nature after a while.

Seastar
02-08-2015, 05:53 PM
Hell, I am 82 and my cognitive ability is better than when I was 20--------
Except that I can't remember s%|t.
Bill

dp
02-08-2015, 06:11 PM
It is not difficult to do and becomes second nature after a while.

This is a clue that something you're sure of is probably wrong.

danlb
02-08-2015, 06:45 PM
As we get older, things just seem to get harder. My neighbor just hit 71 and is finding it more difficult each year to manage the frustrations of using his computer. Just yesterday he downloaded his tax software for the 15th year in a row, and this time he could not overcome the security settings that kept the download from installing. Fortunately, I could bail him out.

I found this year that my beta blocker (prescribed 12 months ago) appeared to be causing cognitive problems. I went from winning 4/5 of the Words with Friends games to winning 1 in 5. I found myself forgetting what I was going to type in posts just like this. I found myself using inappropriate words... Soda when I meant milk. Cracker when I meant cookie, that kind of thing. When I stopped taking the Metoprolol those symptoms seemed to have diminished or disappeared.

I wonder how many symptoms of "old age" are actually the drugs that do so much to keep us alive.

Dan

oldtiffie
02-08-2015, 06:52 PM
Originally Posted by oldtiffie

It is not difficult to do and becomes second nature after a while.


This is a clue that something you're sure of is probably wrong.

Just an ounce of caution/prevention which beats the hell out of a pound or remedial treatment.

malbenbut
02-09-2015, 04:35 AM
I can't workout what these posts are about.

MBB

Rosco-P
02-09-2015, 09:12 AM
I can't workout what these posts are about.

MBB

MBB, you're not alone.

Is this OT thread simply about cognition? Would think two medical issues, memory and cognition go hand-in-hand. It's not just an aging or anesthesia related issue either.

Black_Moons
02-09-2015, 10:37 AM
As we get older, things just seem to get harder. My neighbor just hit 71 and is finding it more difficult each year to manage the frustrations of using his computer. Just yesterday he downloaded his tax software for the 15th year in a row, and this time he could not overcome the security settings that kept the download from installing. Fortunately, I could bail him out.

I found this year that my beta blocker (prescribed 12 months ago) appeared to be causing cognitive problems. I went from winning 4/5 of the Words with Friends games to winning 1 in 5. I found myself forgetting what I was going to type in posts just like this. I found myself using inappropriate words... Soda when I meant milk. Cracker when I meant cookie, that kind of thing. When I stopped taking the Metoprolol those symptoms seemed to have diminished or disappeared.

I wonder how many symptoms of "old age" are actually the drugs that do so much to keep us alive.

Dan

Yea I have heard of people going bat**** insane and off to the mental wards because nurses gave them medications that where *COMPLETELY* counter-indicated on their charts as "Will cause insanity due to conflict with (other medication shes taking)"

Family comes in, screams at nurse, nurse tells family they have been in denial all this time and shes always been insane. Family learns of medication, tells nurse its counter-indicated, nurse does not care. Family gets women taken off medication after much argument, women regains sanity in about a week and is fit to live alone again.

Somehow I think the best way to keep your sanity is google the medications they keep trying to prescribe you.

oldtiffie
02-09-2015, 07:19 PM
A lot of prescribed medication labels have warnings about dizziness (if standing or sitting up quickly), operating machines, driving etc. which on the face of it seems to warn of the possibility of some possibility of functional (cognitive?) impairment.

That pretty well puts the self-assessment and risk squarely in the lap of the medication user.

AD5MB
02-09-2015, 07:54 PM
I finally decided that my measure or "wellness" was going to be the windows computer game "Freecell". I found that my ability to win was near zero. Every day, I played Freecell. It took several months to get back to winning every game.


I find myself in a line of work where the worker bees are inventive problem solvers, and management are uninspired by the book plodders. management sees the various solitaire games as just a waste of time. the worker bees can recognize the need for different strategies in every game, know to look long before making the first moves, and lament the fact that you can't lock out unwinnable Pyramid games.

management would not recognize an unwinnable Pyramid game, which indicates a big hole in their thought processes. but they will never know because the uninspired by the book plodders will never waste their time playing the game.


Somehow I think the best way to keep your sanity is google the medications they keep trying to prescribe you.
cardiologist prescribes Furosemide
Furosemide triggers pancreatitis
gastroenterologist takes Furosemide off the meds list, but does not tell patient or cardiologist that he did it or why he did it.
cardiologist says "WTF?" cardiologist prescribes Furosemide
Furosemide triggers second bout of pancreatitis, bad enough to land me in the ICU.
gastroenterologist takes Furosemide off the meds list, tells the patient but not the cardiologist.
cardiologist says "WTF?" cardiologist prescribes Furosemide....

dp
02-09-2015, 11:30 PM
gastroenterologist takes Furosemide off the meds list, tells the patient but not the cardiologist.
cardiologist says "WTF?" cardiologist prescribes Furosemide....

I think the patient has some responsibility to ensure all the care givers are on the same page. If the care givers don't respond then you find other care givers. No pulminologist that has treated me has lasted beyond 3 visits.

Puckdropper
02-10-2015, 12:39 AM
I'm a big fan of notebooks for keeping track of little bits of information, like what I've done on a project or to sketch out ideas. Something like the medicines discussed in the last few posts could be easily kept track of in a notebook, which you could show to each professional as you go from one to the next. I use the last page in some notebooks for things I need to reference, like a list of parts or prices.

Cell phones can also be used to track things, but a notebook can be rather more focused. They're also a lot cheaper and not subject to loss if the phone should require a full data-loss reset.

krutch
02-10-2015, 02:01 PM
Cognitive ability is used to evaluate people for a whole lot of reasons - driving and employment are but two of many.

What is "cognitive ability"?

The ability to be a useful peg in the wheel of life.