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View Full Version : Just double checking which carbide threading insert I need/want.



michigan doug
02-15-2015, 11:25 AM
Getting low and don't want to get the wrong insert. There seems to be more variety than I know what to do with.

I have a 5/8" holder from shars that takes a 3/8" insert. Like so:


I think this insert will work if I buy from Shars:

http://www.shars.com/products/view/7623/External_V_Partial_Profile_A60_Carbide_Threading_I nsert

ANSI #: 16ER A60
Thread Style: External
Thread Type: A60
Pitch (TPI): 48-16
IC: 3/8"
Thickness: 5/32
Thru Hole: 0.173
Insert Grade: YBG201
Material: Carbide
Coating: PVD nc-TiAlN
Product features

it's a partial profile and it can do threads from 16 to 48 tpi. That's the range I usually work in.


I usually work on plain jane steel at very low speeds, so maybe a p30 grade insert would be better.


Anybody have a favorite source for ten bucks an insert or less??


thanks!

doug

lakeside53
02-15-2015, 11:56 AM
it's hard to buy the "wrong type" - the actual coating or grade doesn't mean much when you are threading small diameters at typical manual speeds - maybe 5- 10X slower than what the inserts are designed for.

It will work, but why buy no-name Chinese (Shars) inserts. I'd rather pay more for known quality. Buy name brand and wait for the Enco/Travers sales or do as I do - dig around on Ebay for surplus.

I use ER16AG60 (or A60) but more and more I reach for full profile inserts (slowly accumulated from Ebay surplus). A60 doesn't buy you much over hss ground to profile; A60 is a compromise at the root as it's set for the smallest thread that can be cut.

Joe_B
02-15-2015, 12:33 PM
I second what Lakeside said, buy name brand inserts. I used to think saving a few bucks on interstate from Enco was prudent but they dont last. I now use Iscar exclusively and they are worth the extra cost.

Robg
02-15-2015, 01:00 PM
I bought the Shars threading inserts, probably the exact ones you are looking at several years ago and have done a reasonable amount of single point threading with them. I have been very pleased with their performance and have yet to wear out one insert which has done a fair bit of work over time. I recommend them and I don't have any affiliation with Shars. Hope this helps.

michigan doug
02-15-2015, 02:16 PM
"but why buy no-name Chinese (Shars) inserts"

Hey, that's why I'm asking...



The couple of inserts I got with the holder have held up pretty well, but I have nothing to compare them to in terms of name brand stuff.

doug

dp
02-15-2015, 02:31 PM
I'd buy a cheap Chinese insert and see how it worked rather than assume it *would* work less well than a non-Chinese brand. Otherwise you could be throwing away money without a good reason.

lakeside53
02-15-2015, 03:33 PM
Maybe so, but how do you know the next insert you buy performs the same? Some might, some won't.... I can't be bothered going through that loop and wondering if the crumbled tip was because of me or the insert. I'll wait until China/India/?? catches up with the rest of the modern world with their carbide. In the mean time I rarely pay even Shars prices for ER16.

Oh.. watch out for counterfeits... many "name branded" carbide on ebay/amazon are fake.

dp
02-15-2015, 05:32 PM
I think a box of Chinese inserts for testing is a good investment. FWIW, every insert I've ever bought has finally crumbled and I've only ever bought inserts from Boeing Surplus before they shuttered the doors. My point being until one has first hand experience with non-US (or perhaps better said as non-western culture) then any anti-China advice because it's China sounds a bit like sky-is-falling advice. If somebody makes those claims and can't back it up with proof then it becomes a STFU moment.

Now if somebody has done a test of X number of Chinese inserts against X specification-equivalent western-culture inserts under exact and controlled circumstances and can show a non-trivial higher failure rate of Chinese inserts I'd be interested in seeing it. I don't and won't accept the blanket argument that because a thing is made in China it is not worth buying. I might do things differently if I were in a commercial business and had hard data to support it, but I've spent millions (not my money) buying data center systems that were made in China and they work as well as things that used to be made in the US and were very affordable.

JoeLee
02-15-2015, 07:10 PM
When it comes to inserts I always buy good quality ones, usually Vardex. I seldom use a GP insert despite the wide range of threads you can cut with it.
Once you start using a full profile insert you won't want to switch back. The full profile insert cleans up the tops of the threads so you don't have to file.
I can remember many times when I would cut threads with a GP insert and keep checking the OD or fitting it to the mating part only to find out that after I filed the tops of the threads it was too small. With the full profile insert you can get a perfect fit, especially if you'r cutting "plain jane steel at very low speeds"

JL..................

lakeside53
02-15-2015, 10:54 PM
Dp : I don't disagree you shouldn't label things as bad because they are from China or wherever, but there more to this. When I buy Iscar, Seco, Sumitomo, Kennametal or whatever, I don't care if they are made in China, India, Turkey or here. Like with your servers, or my Lenovo laptops, someone with a lot to lose was watching the QA/QC processes.

Inserts with no manufacturer data sheet are a crapshoot. I used my share of unbranded import inserts, and get really frustrated when one works and other from the same package fails miserably in the same conditions. Sure, a handful are good for experimenting with, but when with a little searching you can buy branded items for less then Chinese unbranded, why bother.

We have many machine tool supplier locally - find one that even offers the low end import grades - they don't. Yep - when you talk to them about pricing you get a ration of anti-low end speak, but they have pretty convincing arguments and will point you to those that tried to use them in production. I'm on the other end of the scale - I'm not into production, can afford quality inserts (but I'm cheap), but more importantly I want reply on the manf for speed, feed and DOC. Of course, using ER16 on low speed manual threading - no data for that ;)

To me buying no-name inserts is like buying no-name/grade SHCS... not worth the effort if there is a failure.

YMMV.