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View Full Version : Looked at a SB 9c with no change gears today. Aftermarket available?



Pinresto
02-21-2015, 12:24 AM
It was in good shape with lots of other tooling. The price was right and its local to me. Perfect right? Wrong. It has no change gears. Is my only option to spend $190 on a set?

DATo
02-21-2015, 04:53 AM
That's probably why the "price was right". If you've already bought it you obviously have only two options: one, go the rest of the way and buy the gears, or put it up for sale and recoup your money, or as much as you can recoup.

If you are serious enough about machining to want to buy a lathe I'd spend more and get one with a quick change gearbox. I can't imagine having to manually change gears every time I wanted a different feed rate. Tedious stuff like that does seriously strange things to my brain ... sort of like watching someone intent on separating fly poop from pepper.

big job
02-21-2015, 06:17 AM
There was an old saying; quote "one who is in a hurry has no business in a machine shop" So what I see is you got a deal, so buy a gear set, they are out
there. Most of us old guys started with change gears anyways, atleast you will have a lathe. Then for general turning you could always drive the lead screw
with a variable motor drive... I suppose I'm in another situation; our change gear 'monster' is dedicated= it does one job only. One SB 9A Q Change only does
threading, another SB 9A for general work, the third SB only for taper turning all our SBends are long beds.
I'm just a thinking out loud!
sam

flylo
02-21-2015, 06:54 AM
I think he just looked at it & hasn't bought it yet. Yes if you want to thread you'll have to buy change gears. It still maybe a great deal for non threading jobs.

Pinresto
02-21-2015, 07:18 AM
That's probably why the "price was right". If you've already bought it you obviously have only two options: one, go the rest of the way and buy the gears, or put it up for sale and recoup your money, or as much as you can recoup.

If you are serious enough about machining to want to buy a lathe I'd spend more and get one with a quick change gearbox. I can't imagine having to manually change gears every time I wanted a different feed rate. Tedious stuff like that does seriously strange things to my brain ... sort of like watching someone intent on separating fly poop from pepper.

I haven't bought it yet. And I won't. I was just curious about my options.

lost_cause
02-21-2015, 07:33 AM
the good thing about south bend 9's is that you can usually assemble one piece by piece on ebay. the bad part is the price you have to pay. if you are interested and can hold off the lathe seller for a week you can watch and/or buy this based on how the price goes. this says it isn't a full gear set, but it lists everything included so you can see what you have and need. you may end up with extras which you could always try to sell. who knows, this set may sell for over $200, so then you're back at square 1.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/9-South-Bend-Lathe-Gear-Set-Partial-Extras-for-loose-change-gear-machines-Stud-/271781205406?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f476c159e

as far as lathe price, you can see that you need to drop $200 off what the price should be because of the cost to replace the gears that you need. you also haven't mentioned what the price is, or what is included for accessories - collets & closer, multiple chucks, steady rest, follow rest, milling attachment, taper attachment? these are what will tell the value of the lathe.

DATo
02-21-2015, 07:41 AM
I haven't bought it yet. And I won't. I was just curious about my options.

In all honesty Pinresto if it were up to me I'd wait and look for a lathe with a quick change gearbox. You can find one for a decent price if you are willing to wait and shop around. On the other hand, as flylo said, if you have the room and this lathe is a very good deal you might want to pick it up as a second operation lathe. I have a 13 X 40 lathe and it is always a pain to change over from chuck to collet for maybe just a minor operation that could be done on another lathe, even a non-geared lathe. In my case I don't have the room for another lathe.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you can only have one you might as well spend more and get one you will enjoy using. Now if you are only going to use this for hobby work and you have and are willing to spend the extra time changing gears then of course there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that when you are really on a roll you don't want to have to stop to start calculating gear arrangements and swapping out gears ... just my own opinion.

kitno455
02-21-2015, 09:46 AM
I use a loose change gear lathe all the time. Most of my work is short, and I can hand-feed evenly over those distances. Loose change gears are also useful for cutting odd pitches like module and DP worm, and metric, using compounds of the standard gear set, or doing indexing or defined length offsets.

Full sets for the SB 9" workshop show up on ebay for 150-200 bucks. If you are balking at dropping that much cash on lathe parts or tooling, you need a different hobby.

allan

firbikrhd1
02-21-2015, 10:46 AM
In all honesty Pinresto if it were up to me I'd wait and look for a lathe with a quick change gearbox. You can find one for a decent price if you are willing to wait and shop around. On the other hand, as flylo said, if you have the room and this lathe is a very good deal you might want to pick it up as a second operation lathe. I have a 13 X 40 lathe and it is always a pain to change over from chuck to collet for maybe just a minor operation that could be done on another lathe, even a non-geared lathe. In my case I don't have the room for another lathe.

I guess what I'm saying is that if you can only have one you might as well spend more and get one you will enjoy using. Now if you are only going to use this for hobby work and you have and are willing to spend the extra time changing gears then of course there is nothing wrong with that. It's just that when you are really on a roll you don't want to have to stop to start calculating gear arrangements and swapping out gears ... just my own opinion.

+1 on this.
My Logan was a change gear lathe and I used it that way for years until I came across a QC gearbox for it. What a nice improvement! The change gears not only affect the thread pitch but also feed when turning. How nice it is to go from a course feed to a finer one by simply moving a handle or two instead of moving a bunch of gears around. Since I do far more turning than threading it make those changes fast and easy and when I need to do the occasional thread that is easy too.

Rosco-P
02-21-2015, 11:04 AM
You're taking this lathe to Panama. you're hoping to be able to sell it prior to your return. I'd think if you don't want to loose money on the transaction, you want to bring the most capable, most desirable machine you can find, not the smallest, not the most needy, not the least capable, not the cheapest. Your eventual buyer in Panama will be a small shop, not a hobbyist. Look at it from their perspective, the machine they will want to buy will be an upgrade from the possibly old, small and worn out machine they already have.
A lathe with a QCGB can also cut odd and metric pitch threads with a gear swap.

jep24601
02-21-2015, 11:54 AM
I think you're doing too much guessing there Rosco. The OP should buy what suits HIM the most.

J Tiers
02-21-2015, 12:09 PM
Lots of fuss and feathers about QCBs...

There is a lot of stuff that gets done on a lathe that has nothing to do with threading... The QCB is nice, but hardly an essential item without which the lathe is useless. Change gears work fine. And of all the lathes out there, the gears for an SB 9" lathe HAVE TO BE THE MOST AVAILABLE other than Atlas....

And, a QCB CANNOT DO a number of useful threads at all, unless you have some change gears to go with it....

lakeside53
02-21-2015, 12:26 PM
My lathe via a QCGB cuts 8 to 168 tpi without adding change gears (the factory installs 4 "standard" gears in the drive chain). There's are another 26 gears available if I want metric or a bunch of obscure wacky treads... like 2 3/4 tpi...

Unfortunately my lathe is biased strongly to imperial and DP (no just dropping in a 127 tooth gear combination). To do the common metric threads, I need to get 13 gears - about $550 in "best price Boston gears type" blanks then I have slim them down to 13mm width and broach the drive center to a non-standard metric spline. urghh.... Might just get a small metric lathe with QCGB for when I need it :)

In the mean time I fake it - 26 tpi works fine for 1mm threads in short engagements. lol.

raceneer
02-21-2015, 12:47 PM
I would never go back to no QCB.
Save the money and buy a nice big lathe that has everything included. Including
Steady/follow rest/chucks /gears/tooling/QCTP etc.

One will come up.

However, for the price to properly tool it up your probably better off getting a grizzly or whatever you have over there, a chinese/taiwan (Taiwan is better) that has everything. You will be happier cause you will be using it instead of fixing it or looking for parts, and will spend the same amount anyway.

I just bought an AL336D with Digital DRO and the works plus all the bells and whistles.
I sold my 9C the day before I picked it up.
I would rather a new lathe now from Taiwan then an old clunker SB missing half its stuff.

My father always said buy the best tools you can afford.
The AL336 is a hell of a machine to have at home.

Rich Carlstedt
02-21-2015, 01:16 PM
Maybe 15 years ago I was in New Jersey and went to a machinery dealer ( Who I understand has passed on)
He parted out lots of SB lathes and one room had shelves of QC gear boxes. must have been a hundred.
Someone here on this board may remember or know who got the stuff.
He was famous and advertised in the HSM magazine
He dealt mostly in smaller machine tools and maybe his son took over.. brain fart or I would have a name

Rich

J Tiers
02-21-2015, 01:19 PM
One common thread that many QCBs do not do is 27 tpi... lamp fixtures use that, for instance, some plumbing also.

And, the point is really NOT whether you LIKE a QCB or not. Who would NOT like easy access to a *substantial subset* of possible threads and feeds?

It's more trying to counter this insistent drumbeat of folks repeating over and over "A QCB is simply *required*, you should NEVER consider buying any POS that doesn't have one".....

The dealer was probably Sobel.

flylo
02-21-2015, 02:17 PM
You're taking this lathe to Panama. you're hoping to be able to sell it prior to your return. I'd think if you don't want to loose money on the transaction, you want to bring the most capable, most desirable machine you can find, not the smallest, not the most needy, not the least capable, not the cheapest. Your eventual buyer in Panama will be a small shop, not a hobbyist. Look at it from their perspective, the machine they will want to buy will be an upgrade from the possibly old, small and worn out machine they already have.
A lathe with a QCGB can also cut odd and metric pitch threads with a gear swap.

Just curious how you got to be an expert on exporting to south/central America?

Paul Alciatore
02-21-2015, 02:22 PM
Both change gears and the quick change gear boxes are available on E-Bay and other sources. Be aware that you need a different lead screw with the quick change gear box as it is shorter.

I have a different view of the question of which to have. I am not in a production situation and the only times I cut threads on the lathe are when special ones are needed. The quick change boxes are very limited on the threads that are available without additional gear changes. So, for a "special" thread that the box does not do, you are going to have to have change gears anyway.

AND, if you ever want to cut a worm, again you will need change gears.

For my purposes, the change gears are a lot more versatile than a quick change box will ever be and it does not take that long to set them up.

Rosco-P
02-21-2015, 02:30 PM
Just curious how you got to be an expert on exporting to south/central America?

Never claimed to be an expert, I leave that up to others on this board.

I happen to know two dealers that buy and export machines and machine tools to Latin America by the containerload. I see what hits the floor in their warehouses and what they stuff in the back corners for the next load going out.

metalmagpie
02-21-2015, 09:23 PM
Here is what happens when you own a model C. Whatever feed you're set to is probably what you'll use. Changing gears is a PITA. My first lathe was a model C.

metalmagpie

Black_Moons
02-22-2015, 04:17 PM
Lots of fuss and feathers about QCBs...

There is a lot of stuff that gets done on a lathe that has nothing to do with threading... The QCB is nice, but hardly an essential item without which the lathe is useless. Change gears work fine. And of all the lathes out there, the gears for an SB 9" lathe HAVE TO BE THE MOST AVAILABLE other than Atlas....

And, a QCB CANNOT DO a number of useful threads at all, unless you have some change gears to go with it....

*Grumble grumble* My imperial lathes QCGB does lots of metric threads with the same gears.
For imperial threads, about 50% of the threads need one of the gears swapped.

Oh, And you have to swap 2 gears around when you want to do less then 20 TPI vs 20TPI or more. (same with metric)

Mainly the QCGB is great for being able to swap between a roughing and finishing pass easily, or slightly adjust the feed rate to get rid of chatter/certain shape of chips/finish/etc.