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RWL
02-28-2015, 11:11 AM
I have the early version of the South Bend shaper without an oil pump. Do any of you with an early model know if the phenolic bull gear needs to be lubricated, or will petroleum products hurt the phenolic gear? Does anyone have an owners manual for the old version of this shaper. Those that I've found are all for the later version with the oil pump.

Ohio Mike
02-28-2015, 02:15 PM
They're not that much different. I'd use the same medium weight machine oil in both.

http://www.wswells.com/data/shaper/shaper_index.html

RWL
02-28-2015, 08:53 PM
Thanks for the link. I had never seen the sales brochure and that clearly shows that the oil pump is dropping oil on the bull gear. That confirms that the resinoid bull gear should be oiled. I think way lube would be a good substitute for medium weight oil.

Optics Curmudgeon
02-28-2015, 10:58 PM
I don't have anything on the SB, but the Ammco manual (which also had a phenolic bull gear) does not list the bull gear as a lubrication point. Also, when SB added the oil pump they also changed to a steel bull gear, at least in the ones I've seen.

RWL
03-01-2015, 12:02 PM
I don't have anything on the SB, but the Ammco manual (which also had a phenolic bull gear) does not list the bull gear as a lubrication point. Also, when SB added the oil pump they also changed to a steel bull gear, at least in the ones I've seen.

Oh. Those two facts make a difference then. I hadn't realized that SB changed to a steel bull gear in the 2nd version, which would explain the need for oil. Fortunately I hadn't put too much oil on the bull gear when I did my project last week. I'll have to feel if it's still there and whether the surface of the gear teeth feel spongy. Thanks for that information.

RichR
03-01-2015, 12:56 PM
This might be of some interest:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/gear-lube-phenolic-gear-76002/#post42756

RWL
03-01-2015, 02:15 PM
This might be of some interest:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/gear-lube-phenolic-gear-76002/#post42756

That discussion about phenolic gears is also helpful. It looks like lubrication is optional for phenolic gears, at least for the Tufnol brand, which sounds similar to what's in the South Bend. Finding an owners manual for version I of the South Bend shaper would be helpful to see what was said about this. Unfortunately, all the manuals on the internet that I could find were for the newer version of the shaper with an oil pump.

Rosco-P
03-01-2015, 02:27 PM
Did you ask on the SB sub-forum over at PM?

RWL
03-01-2015, 02:53 PM
Did you ask on the SB sub-forum over at PM?

Actually, that's where I started since PM has a larger audience. I got very few responses there, so I reposted the query here. It looks like the hobbyists are the ones with current knowledge of these machines. I'm surprised that this question hasn't arisen before, but I couldn't find it on a search. It's also surprising that only the owners manual for the newer model of the shaper seems to be on the net.

ammcoman2
03-01-2015, 06:26 PM
I have an Ammco (1941 vintage) which, as mentioned above, has a phenolic bull gear. Seeing that many car engines in the past used to have a phenolic timing gear which is bathed in oil, I always put some way oil on the teeth and it hasn't complained. Yet.

Geoff

oldtiffie
03-01-2015, 11:37 PM
I have the early version of the South Bend shaper without an oil pump. Do any of you with an early model know if the phenolic bull gear needs to be lubricated, or will petroleum products hurt the phenolic gear? Does anyone have an owners manual for the old version of this shaper. Those that I've found are all for the later version with the oil pump.

The title of this thread is: S Bend Shaper - lubrication of bull gear for old style without oil pump

This sort of S bend?

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=s+bend+toilet+pan+connector&biw=1536&bih=732&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=tujzVKTVMeHEmQWGl4KYBQ&ved=0CD8QsAQ

https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=s+bend+toilet+pan+connector

RWL
03-01-2015, 11:43 PM
Nah. Those S bends have Bull S**t, not bull gears. As a non-plumber, I didn't know that name existed for something else.