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View Full Version : Chinese rolling mill? Safety, Schmafety



KiddZimaHater
02-28-2015, 10:20 PM
Video of some hard working Chinese.
Chinese Rolling Mill? (http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=fd4_1425160746)

lakeside53
03-01-2015, 01:41 AM
yikes... and there's a billion more to take your place if you get hurt.

Willy
03-01-2015, 01:54 AM
In their defense notice the workers are careful not to splash water onto the metal thus preserving the butter-soft quality of the product.:)

http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTI1MlgxNjAw/z/-msAAOxyGb1RF6Pp/$%28KGrHqJ,!hwFEDVsTqGpBRF6PprFVQ~~60_35.JPG

Euph0ny
03-01-2015, 02:15 AM
Steel rolled with human intervention... western industrial-revolution technology, now gone to China.

It hasn't changed much. See Fred Dibnah here: http://youtu.be/HkTlGTA9pTU?t=7m19s

Back in the 2000's, when he was filming, there was still a bit of "hand" rolling going on in the UK:
http://youtu.be/zc2KZ_KyeVM?t=21m25s

PStechPaul
03-01-2015, 02:17 AM
Reminds me of this song:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mskx6c1DULQ

dp
03-01-2015, 02:52 AM
It is a phase they are going through. We did the same in the US and surely the same experience transpired in Europe and Great Britain. http://www.linkstothepast.com/milwaukee/bayviewmassacre.php

When they stop doing what they are doing their jobs will be outsourced to a place where men will work like that to feed their families. Ever has it been thus. China is currently grooming South America, in fact, because they know what is coming.

boslab
03-01-2015, 05:15 AM
Don't know what's so surprising, I've done loads of shifts doing the same, hand rolling steel plate samples, it's still done the same way, in fact the sample mill is still in use in llanwern steelworks today, ok we had Melton trousers and jackets and visors, boots etc but the process is the same, archaic I suppose but it hasn't changed, ever.
It's great fun when your legs start burning too, thin plate had to be rolled with tongs, you need to catch it as it comes out the rolls, otherwise it will go everywhere.
Bigg mills have a run out table, but little ones don't

Tony Ennis
03-01-2015, 08:44 AM
I wonder why they don't skip all the dangerous phases where we have already been, and go right to the new methods.

vpt
03-01-2015, 08:56 AM
A/C guy must be waiting for parts?

Toolguy
03-01-2015, 08:59 AM
The dangerous methods are a lot cheaper to do, and labor is easy to come by.

boslab
03-01-2015, 09:22 AM
A direct mill is a conglomeration of a caster, roughing roll where the straightener lives and hot roll coil and coil box, the minimum amount of metal is about 150 tons, there's also a thin plate caster, we commissioned one 80mm at tuskalusa Alabama, that was for bridge plates
Mark

Willy
03-01-2015, 11:03 AM
[QUOTE=dp;970392]
It is a phase they are going through. We did the same in the US and surely the same experience transpired in Europe and Great Britain...............................QUOTE]

So very true.
I recently watched a video depicting what it was like to be a logger on British Columbia's central coast during the thirties and early forties.
The Chinese steel mill video looks like a segment from a day care facility in comparison.
I'm sure most of us remember having to perform a lot of unsafe tasks 30-50 years ago that have now been legislated unlawful, never mind downright foolish.

Allison Logging 1933-42

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0K5XwmGmuw)

paul463
03-01-2015, 11:25 AM
Chinese press worker.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sF865wbEeyI

lakeside53
03-01-2015, 11:48 AM
I worked in Brazil (at the subsidiary of a large Japanese company) in the early 80's helping with production and QA issues. First thing I noted was that ALL guards and safety devices on the machines were disabled or removed. I raised the issue and I got genuinely puzzled looks with the response that they slowed down production and my job was to help increase it. When I mentioned worker safely, they shrugged and said that there were a dozen guys wanting the same job.

Oh.. lose an hand/arm - off to hospital and then go home (if they had one), forever. No pay or compensation.

loose nut
03-01-2015, 12:41 PM
I recently watched a video of a plant in France doing exactly the same job but they didn't have people to switch of with or anyone to douse them with water to cool them off. Apparently China is much farther along with worker welfare.:eek:

Glug
03-01-2015, 01:07 PM
But those workers - they are smiling and joking and look pretty happy. They look a lot happier than many people I have worked with.

What is the guy doing in the far background?

Black_Moons
03-01-2015, 01:16 PM
Im amused how many times they just drop it on the ground. Now I know where all those little hard as rock inclusions come from.

Firecracker
03-01-2015, 01:20 PM
The Workington plant shown in Mr. Euphony's post being visited by Fred closed in 2006 with the work shifting to a newer plant with higher capacity in France (don't know if it's the same lads Mr. Nut was watching).

In a past job I used to work with a guy who'd started aged 16 at Workington. His tales of the days when the Bessemer converters were running, with a plume of red dust covering the town when being charged ( this would have been late 1970's) showed why they were shut down in the 80's.

The Chinese are just going through the same process we went through. When living/health standards, air quality/environmental standards rise then the mills will move on somewhere else. There's always someone, somewhere prepared to work for less to feed their families. Look at the industrial revolution in this country. Agricultural workers flocked to steel mills that were worse than that mill shown in the video. Why? Simple, the wages were better.

Owain

jep24601
03-01-2015, 03:00 PM
Somewhat reminds me of an old classic Chinese movie I saw once where the principal character is walking down the street when he comes upon a woman weeping uncontrollably. He tries to console her and asks her what has happened. She explains that her husband has just been killed in his job at a factory whereupon he asks her which factory. Upon telling him he immediately abandons her and runs as fast as he can to the factory to get the deceased's job!

justanengineer
03-01-2015, 05:11 PM
JMO but many of those casting aluminum in their home shops scare me more.

jep24601
03-01-2015, 10:23 PM
JMO but many of those casting aluminum in their home shops scare me more.

Why so?

justanengineer
03-02-2015, 01:21 AM
Why so?

The worst those fellas are likely to get is a nasty burn from touching a hot bar. The home shoppers casting aluminum OTOH have a whole mess of issues to worry about that could quickly turn fatal - lack of knowledge, lack of/cheap safety equipment, and homebrew equipment thats poorly designed/copied/built being among the first few (remember the video of the fella that melted his "crucible?"). Aside form that, having been spattered with the usual small specks of both I'd prefer anything thats hot to be ferrous, aluminum sticks to your skin and keeps burning awhile whereas iron and steel just brush/fall off quickly.

boslab
03-02-2015, 06:20 AM
Rolling and forging which are essentially the same thing are much safer than they look, you know the work is hot, radiation burns are a reality, hence the cold water, something around that temp and size close to you will merrily cook you, casting takes it up a few notches, the material now has no fixed boundary other than the one you make for it, very dangerous.
I've seen quite a few ladles of steel "breakout" if it's at the slag line, which is most common your in with a chance, the slag tends to dissolve refractory as it's usually acidic, if the ladle goes low down you are royaly in the poo, the ladles I saw fail were 350 ton 15' tall beasts, gross weight including ladle 450tons, the ferro static pressure on a failure low down was huge and steel and Ali have similar molten viscositys to water, it squirts out in a jet, several hundred feet at the start, then solidifying as it hits something.
Quite a sight, all you can do is land the ladle and get out of the way the glass in the crane usually blows after about 5 mins direct exposure so keeping the crane out of it inc driver is vital, we just hosed the big pool of metal as it poured, if the floor was already wet an explosion would result.
Molten metal is by far the most danger you can get into from a metalwork point of view.
However folk do cast metal at home and it is fortunate they are mostly careful and or lucky!
I don't read of any major accidents.
I hope it stays that way but even so called professionals get bit on the arse, I saw a very large blast furnace explode, not funny,
Mark

rowbare
03-02-2015, 10:55 AM
But those workers - they are smiling and joking and look pretty happy. They look a lot happier than many people I have worked with.



They haven't been told that they have to give back the shoes (sandals?) after the cameras are gone...

bob

kendall
03-02-2015, 12:08 PM
[QUOTE]So very true.
I recently watched a video depicting what it was like to be a logger on British Columbia's central coast during the thirties and early forties.
The Chinese steel mill video looks like a segment from a day care facility in comparison.
I'm sure most of us remember having to perform a lot of unsafe tasks 30-50 years ago that have now been legislated unlawful, never mind downright foolish.

Allison Logging 1933-42

(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0K5XwmGmuw)

Wasn't too long ago that riding the ball down was an accepted means of getting from the roof to the ground.
Most safety measures I approve of and consider common sense, others leave me saying "Huh?"
I'm also the guy that feels that too many safety regulations often leads to overconfidence and a greater chance of injury.

Rosco-P
03-02-2015, 12:42 PM
JMO but many of those casting aluminum in their home shops scare me more.


Why so?

Little or no protective clothing, not enough sand in the smelting and pouring areas to contain spills and prevent hot metal from splashing up. There will be spills, over pours, etc. Hot metal hitting bare concrete isn't what you want to happen. See the backyard metal casting website for examples.

jep24601
03-02-2015, 02:36 PM
In the backyard metal casting forum in the thread "burns and injuries from your home foundry" it sure sounds like everyone was wearing the appropriate safety equipment and avoiding accidents - maybe the accident victims were ashamed to post.

Rosco-P
03-02-2015, 03:04 PM
In the backyard metal casting forum in the thread "burns and injuries from your home foundry" it sure sounds like everyone was wearing the appropriate safety equipment and avoiding accidents - maybe the accident victims were ashamed to post.

This website: http://backyardmetalcasting.com/ These forums: http://www.alloyavenue.com/vb/forum.php
Didn't look at his forums previously, no respect for a guy who buys a bunch of lathes, smashes them to be remelted in his furnace, but then hauls all the cast iron to the scrap yard.

Having read some of the thread you mention, post #23 is probably the truth of it. Plenty of burns though. The website owner certainly plays it fast and loose.

ironmonger
03-02-2015, 03:42 PM
Little or no protective clothing, not enough sand in the smelting and pouring areas to contain spills and prevent hot metal from splashing up. There will be spills, over pours, etc. Hot metal hitting bare concrete isn't what you want to happen. See the backyard metal casting website for examples.

I pour aluminium and bronze, from B4 crucibles, and sand scares the heck out of me. I would much rather pour over a steel plate. There is no way to assure that the sand is dry. The blast that would result from a spill on wet sand would be nasty.

I have a small crucible furnace, about 200,000 btu, which used to have a emergency port on the bottom in case a crucible broke while heating. I since decided it would be safer to simply rebuild the furnace if a crucible were to break. Dry concrete is no better than sand safety wise.

Ring every crucible cold, pre condition any crucible that has not been fired the same day you are going to melt. I wear a face shield, gloves and foot protection, but you will find no sand anywhere near my rig.

Been melting and casting hobby stuff for the last 12 years after a 40 year break since school :>)

paul

Rosco-P
03-02-2015, 04:24 PM
I pour aluminium and bronze, from B4 crucibles, and sand scares the heck out of me. I would much rather pour over a steel plate. There is no way to assure that the sand is dry. The blast that would result from a spill on wet sand would be nasty.
paul

How do they manage in a steel mill or foundry? Was in Beth Steel and sand was all over the floor in the blast furnace and casting area.

ironmonger
03-02-2015, 05:11 PM
How do they manage in a steel mill or foundry? Was in Beth Steel and sand was all over the floor in the blast furnace and casting area.

No doubt, but the internal weather of a continuously operating steel mill is nothing like a home casting area. It's as dry as a popcorn fart in the foundry.

The sand that the average home caster would get a hold of would need to be dried before it approaches the moisture level of a foundry. Iíve done service work in foundry and they do not like water leaks in the casting area...

But here's the deal. If you want to use sand, be my guest.

paul

Rosco-P
03-02-2015, 05:18 PM
No doubt, but the internal weather of a continuously operating steel mill is nothing like a home casting area. It's as dry as a popcorn fart in the foundry.

But here's the deal. If you want to use sand, be my guest.

paul


No need to go there... Had to ask, because near the furnace, it was like being at the beach.

boslab
03-02-2015, 07:20 PM
The dust on the deck is from constantly spraying refractory usually, it's not sand, at least that's what I've been blowing out of my snout!, it is true furnaces used and do use a sand bed if your in the buisness of casting, be it near nett castings or ingots, small ones that is.
Furnace iron gets run into a Lauder and teemed into small ingot moulds, sow and piglet style, ancient but still out there.
Fascinating to watch.
Concrete is a bit of a bugger as it explodes, as does chippings, oddly enough wood is fairly good at holding together, they tried replacing the wooden rail ties or sleepers as we call them with concrete, a hot metal torpedo broke out and the metal covered the concrete ties, they promptly exploded sending concrete and metal everywhere, ok we go back to wood says the manager.
Mark

ironmonger
03-02-2015, 07:26 PM
<<snip>> oddly enough wood is fairly good at holding together, they tried replacing the wooden rail ties or sleepers as we call them with concrete, a hot metal torpedo broke out and the metal covered the concrete ties, they promptly exploded sending concrete and metal everywhere, ok we go back to wood says the manager.
Mark

Besides, the burning wood smells better than burning leather :>)

paul

ckelloug
03-02-2015, 09:00 PM
At the Sloss Furnaces Museum in Birmingham, AL USA, they said that the foundrymen wore wooden clogs when they were tapping the blast furnaces to get the iron out.

justanengineer
03-02-2015, 10:02 PM
JME but with few exceptions the foundries Ive been in have been dam near spotless to include the concrete floors.

mattthemuppet
03-02-2015, 10:51 PM
Didn't look at his forums previously, no respect for a guy who buys a bunch of lathes, smashes them to be remelted in his furnace, but then hauls all the cast iron to the scrap yard.


The irony (get it, irony, oh ok, wasn't that funny) is that he then spends a bunch of time making a small Gingery style metal lathe, scraped in with a wood chisel.

wierdscience
03-02-2015, 11:26 PM
No doubt, but the internal weather of a continuously operating steel mill is nothing like a home casting area. It's as dry as a popcorn fart in the foundry.

The sand that the average home caster would get a hold of would need to be dried before it approaches the moisture level of a foundry. Iíve done service work in foundry and they do not like water leaks in the casting area...

But here's the deal. If you want to use sand, be my guest.

paul

I tend to agree with that,I've never had any explosions from molten Aluminum hitting even wet sand,but the chance of a steam burn is ever present.

Of the two surfaces to pour over sand or concrete,I'll take floor grating myself,my next casting area will be 1" grating over a recess at least 4" deep.