PDA

View Full Version : Anyone interested in Metal Scraping?



Metal Scraper
03-02-2015, 11:50 PM
Hi everyone,
as my moniker implies i love to scrape metal!

What is metal scraping?
Simply put,
Metal scraping is a process of precisely removing metal from a surface needing a high degree of flatness, by means of hand tooling or machine driven scraping tools.
The scraped part is referenced to a known flat surface (i.e. a surface plate) and a spotting ink is used to determine the high spots.
The high spots are systematically brought to the same plane of contact.
When 2 scraped surfaces interface with each other, their friction is greatly reduced, especially with the introduction of oil.
The oil fills the low spots and provides a bearing surface, making the entire assembly float as if it were on glass. here's a picture of a scraped surface.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-TQS4bKSag-c/VPOvWJayiDI/AAAAAAAAAgk/0XwNeKc-RZE/w531-h808-no/SB11%2BCross%2BSlide%2B7%2B1.jpg

In this picture the blue spots are .0015" higher than the low spots!

Heres a link to my site for more examples!
https://plus.google.com/u/0/103060654120661306884/posts

if you have interest, i'd like to know!
thanks for reading!

gcude
03-03-2015, 12:13 AM
Yes, I scrape. Yes, I love it. Very satisfying bringing worn parts back to precision working surfaces with your bare hands and/or with a biax.
BTW, you and I are not the only ones. :)

dp
03-03-2015, 12:18 AM
This place is crawling with scrapers and several instructors. Welcome to the group.

Paul Alciatore
03-03-2015, 01:22 AM
And some of us are scraping wanna-bees. Perhaps scraping gonna-bees.

Welcome to the group and do share your scraping adventures.

Metal Scraper
03-03-2015, 02:00 AM
Thank you all,

looks like i'm in good company!

Forrest Addy
03-03-2015, 03:29 AM
Some of us regulars are experienced scrapers of diversified experience. Search the archives using the obvious search terms and you'll find many threads devoted to one aspect of precision scraping or another. You should fit right in.

What is the casting in your image? The compound mounting plane of a South Bend lathe cross slide? I'd suggest 10 to 16 spots per square inch and a mean ripple of 0.0005" crest to valley.

The Artful Bodger
03-03-2015, 03:41 AM
So tell me how this spotting ink business works. Do I put the ink on the surface of the flat or on the workpiece? What is the consistency of the ink, is it fine spirit ink or thick paste like bearing blue?

Is it the same process as using bearing blue?

Forrest Addy
03-03-2015, 04:07 AM
And look out for The Bodger. He is a most artfull dissembler.

J Tiers
03-03-2015, 08:07 AM
So tell me how this spotting ink business works. Do I put the ink on the surface of the flat or on the workpiece? What is the consistency of the ink, is it fine spirit ink or thick paste like bearing blue?

Is it the same process as using bearing blue?

I dunno, but if you have blue bearings, you must be hot stuff..... How do you bear up under that pressure?

As for the rest of it, I am pretty sure I have spotted some folks trying to scrape by.... They were heading for a flat, but I am pretty sure they were trying to get a far piece from any work. Per the ink, I suspect they didn't think.

Carm
03-03-2015, 08:24 AM
If you read the prince you get regal bearing. But don't let your scraper become a scrapper.
Steel crazy after all these peers, a can-ode by The High Spots

Metal Scraper
03-03-2015, 10:53 AM
So tell me how this spotting ink business works. Do I put the ink on the surface of the flat or on the workpiece? What is the consistency of the ink, is it fine spirit ink or thick paste like bearing blue?

Is it the same process as using bearing blue?

The ink is spread thinly upon the surface plate with a printers roller.
the consistency of the water soluble, Cannode, is very thick a little ink goes a long way!

the work piece is rubbed on the inked up surface plate, the high spots reveal themselves readily.

Metal Scraper
03-03-2015, 10:55 AM
Some of us regulars are experienced scrapers of diversified experience. Search the archives using the obvious search terms and you'll find many threads devoted to one aspect of precision scraping or another. You should fit right in.

What is the casting in your image? The compound mounting plane of a South Bend lathe cross slide? I'd suggest 10 to 16 spots per square inch and a mean ripple of 0.0005" crest to valley.
Last edited by Forrest Addy; Today at 01:05 AM.


thank you very much for the information!!

interiorpainter
03-03-2015, 12:02 PM
Judging from your pictures and slideshow i would say you use blue to thick. According to the explanations of Nick Mueller on youtube. The darker blue ring around the spot is blue that is squeezed out between the contact points.
Otah your post 11 states that you are using something thinner than normal.
Is that your way of dealing with this.

dp
03-03-2015, 12:47 PM
Some of us regulars are experienced scrapers of diversified experience. Search the archives using the obvious search terms and you'll find many threads devoted to one aspect of precision scraping or another. You should fit right in.

What is the casting in your image? The compound mounting plane of a South Bend lathe cross slide? I'd suggest 10 to 16 spots per square inch and a mean ripple of 0.0005" crest to valley.
Last edited by Forrest Addy; Today at 01:05 AM.


thank you very much for the information!!

Forrest was my instructor and knows scraping inside out.

The Artful Bodger
03-03-2015, 01:45 PM
The ink is spread thinly upon the surface plate with a printers roller.
the consistency of the water soluble, Cannode, is very thick a little ink goes a long way!

the work piece is rubbed on the inked up surface plate, the high spots reveal themselves readily.

Thank you for being the first to answer my query.

When I try this process I dont get any blue on the high spots which show as bright spots with the lows show filled with blue, thats why I asked the consistency of the 'ink'.

Apparently the other posters here have never heard of the scraping of Babbit bearings which, IIRC, was done with a thick(ish) blue paste.

metalmagpie
03-03-2015, 03:20 PM
I took a class and now know enough to know I know very little. I'd love to see a comprehensive scraping plan for a simple part like a shaper vise. Anyone?

metalmagpie

Richard King
03-03-2015, 11:40 PM
The Internet is slow tonight.... Check out my website. Handscraping.com Then go to YouTube and type in Richard King Scraping, then you can see more at Scraping.PMC.org.pmc.tw and when you enter the site click on the facebook Icon, then scroll down to the very bottom and click on the lady news caster. after they interview my friend the President of PMC, they interview me and it's in English. I have taught at Kingsberry Babbitt Bearing company in Philly hand and BIAX power scraping. 6 months ago I taught a class at American Babbitt in West Virginia. You also go to DAPRA.com and look under there BIAX Scraper info and click on scraping classes and my name pops up as I teach here in the USA scraping for the BIAX and DAPRA. On April 12 I will be working the Used Machinery / Rebulding trade show inside the BIAX booth in Germany. The following week I will be teaching a class in Germany. Also have a class in Houston May 15 - 19. And we have room for a couple of more. I teach Machine Rebuilding and scraping is part of that. I have been using Canode for over 30 years and you should get a better bearing on the compound rest. I shoot for 20 PPI (points per inch) and 50% coverage. The depth of the low spots averages .0003" deep. 1/2 Moon oil flaking is .002 deep. Welcome to the forum as You can see there are several here who are scraper hands. I have been teaching rebuilding classes around the world for over 35 +years with over 20,000 graduated students. Plus I am a Journeyman Machine Tool Rebuilder. Rich

J Tiers
03-04-2015, 12:14 AM
Thank you for being the first to answer my query.

When I try this process I dont get any blue on the high spots which show as bright spots with the lows show filled with blue, thats why I asked the consistency of the 'ink'.

Apparently the other posters here have never heard of the scraping of Babbit bearings which, IIRC, was done with a thick(ish) blue paste.

Your bright spots sound like the "bulls eyes" seen in normal spotting of the surface, with the marking compound on the reference surface. But the reference to bearings may be different....

Is that what you mean (normal spotting "bull's eyes"), or are you doing the reverse, as I have seen done for babbit, where blue is on the babbit and you look for the bright spots which are where the blue was rubbed off?

The Artful Bodger
03-04-2015, 12:51 AM
Thanks.

Peter.
03-04-2015, 04:15 AM
Scraping? What's that? Is it something you do if you have the toaster set too high?

Nah, we don't do any of that scraping malarkey round here...

janvanruth
03-04-2015, 08:15 AM
The Internet is slow tonight.... Check out my website. Handscraping.com Then go to YouTube and type in Richard King Scraping, then you can see more at Scraping.PMC.org.pmc.tw and when you enter the site click on the facebook Icon, then scroll down to the very bottom and click on the lady news caster. after they interview my friend the President of PMC, they interview me and it's in English. I have taught at Kingsberry Babbitt Bearing company in Philly hand and BIAX power scraping. 6 months ago I taught a class at American Babbitt in West Virginia. You also go to DAPRA.com and look under there BIAX Scraper info and click on scraping classes and my name pops up as I teach here in the USA scraping for the BIAX and DAPRA. On April 12 I will be working the Used Machinery / Rebulding trade show inside the BIAX booth in Germany. The following week I will be teaching a class in Germany. Also have a class in Houston May 15 - 19. And we have room for a couple of more. I teach Machine Rebuilding and scraping is part of that. I have been using Canode for over 30 years and you should get a better bearing on the compound rest. I shoot for 20 PPI (points per inch) and 50% coverage. The depth of the low spots averages .0003" deep. 1/2 Moon oil flaking is .002 deep. Welcome to the forum as You can see there are several here who are scraper hands. I have been teaching rebuilding classes around the world for over 35 +years with over 20,000 graduated students. Plus I am a Journeyman Machine Tool Rebuilder. Rich


the OP knows as he was in one of your classes two years ago

flylo
03-04-2015, 05:12 PM
Well he must have liked the class & paid attention.

Metal Scraper
03-06-2015, 10:58 AM
Well he must have liked the class & paid attention.

HI flylow, thanks for reading and commenting.
It was the best time and the best money i have spent as an adult !!!

Richard King
03-06-2015, 02:01 PM
Thanks... I remember you too... DH (Oakland host) and I have talked about doing another one out there again in the fall of 2015. I also have people interested in Oregon, Baltimore, and MI now. i will be teaching a class in Germany in June. The May Houston class is full. I will travel just about anywhere to teach a class. Just need to have someone volunteer their shop. The Hosts get the training for Free. I am proud of Metal Scraper wanting to teach scraping as I ask my students to do that. Rich

Metal Scraper
03-06-2015, 10:23 PM
Thanks... I remember you too... DH (Oakland host) and I have talked about doing another one out there again in the fall of 2015. I also have people interested in Oregon, Baltimore, and MI now. i will be teaching a class in Germany in June. The May Houston class is full. I will travel just about anywhere to teach a class. Just need to have someone volunteer their shop. The Hosts get the training for Free. I am proud of Metal Scraper wanting to teach scraping as I ask my students to do that. Rich

Sounds like you'll be real busy!
I'd love to come to the next shin-dig out here in Oakland!!!

Richard King
03-07-2015, 11:33 AM
So what have you been scraping? Buy some Straight Edges? DH (the Oakland host) has been busy doing machine maintenance jobs all over the by area. A few scrape jobs but mostly he is repairing metal band saws. He has a small machine shop lined up for the class. Still have his email? Usually when a former student comes to the class he helps me teach and pays 1/2 price. :-)

I was hoping someday to have an all class reunion possibly in KC as it is center of the USA. Would be fun for everyone to meet. Rich

PS: Janvanruth, how did you know he had taken the class? I never saw where he wrote that in his # 1 post?

Metal Scraper
03-07-2015, 12:43 PM
So what have you been scraping? Buy some Straight Edges? DH (the Oakland host) has been busy doing machine maintenance jobs all over the by area. A few scrape jobs but mostly he is repairing metal band saws. He has a small machine shop lined up for the class. Still have his email? Usually when a former student comes to the class he helps me teach and pays 1/2 price. :-)

I was hoping someday to have an all class reunion possibly in KC as it is center of the USA. Would be fun for everyone to meet. Rich

PS: Janvanruth, how did you know he had taken the class? I never saw where he wrote that in his # 1 post?


Hi Richard,
i have been scraping everything i can get my hands on.
i started of with a woodworkers hand plane.
a beat up V block i had laying around the shop.
i trued up my squares and a few bench blocks
scraped my bench vises' beating surface back to relative flat.
I'm currently working on sections of my 1940 SB 11"x5' lathe- that's turning into a long term restoration project

i'm looking on and off for a camelback and prism to scrape too!!!

I believe that i still have DH's information!
i'd gladly help teach in any way i could!
i like the idea of a reunion, sounds like a lot of fun.

janvanruth
03-07-2015, 01:50 PM
So what have you been scraping? Buy some Straight Edges? DH (the Oakland host) has been busy doing machine maintenance jobs all over the by area. A few scrape jobs but mostly he is repairing metal band saws. He has a small machine shop lined up for the class. Still have his email? Usually when a former student comes to the class he helps me teach and pays 1/2 price. :-)

I was hoping someday to have an all class reunion possibly in KC as it is center of the USA. Would be fun for everyone to meet. Rich

PS: Janvanruth, how did you know he had taken the class? I never saw where he wrote that in his # 1 post?


Not many people buy a brandnew handplaner just to scrape it.
I did remember reading about it on the hobby-machinist forum.
And there the OP mentioned having been in one of your classes.

Richard King
03-07-2015, 04:53 PM
I think DH bought a 6' Camelback and some others at an auction. Would be perfect for the lathe bed. Give him a shout and maybe you can borrow it??

J Tiers
03-07-2015, 06:35 PM
Dang, and I'm still looking for a 30 to 36" camelback or similar. Preferably with an angle also, but can live without that. Can even live with having to touch up the straightedge. I'm not doing this for a living, too busy with engineering work.

Richard King
03-11-2015, 11:22 PM
I have some now I call them HKA 18, 24, 36 and 48" Camelbacks with 45 deg angle casting and high temp stress relieved . Also have camel-back castings with out 45 degree too.
Email for info: Richard@Handscraping.com

Richard King
03-11-2015, 11:33 PM
Hey everyone one of my students from Norway has made several You Tube instruction video's on rebuilding his Schaublin SV52 milling machine. He has attended 2 1/2 rebuilding seminars now. Proving one can become a descent rebuilder after learning some basic principals.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i88PCjrogso

Also another student who attended a class I had in Sweden last August did a highlight of that class on You Tube. It's listed under Richard King Scraping. I will be teaching a class in Germany Next month (April 2015) and we are talking about others next fall and 2016.
Rich

steveberl
08-20-2015, 11:03 AM
I see several references to metal scraping classes in this thread, and now have a few things that I think could be improved by a bit of scraping.
I live in Oakland California and wonder if anyone knows of any classes being offered in the area.
-steve