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View Full Version : Increased demand for welders: community colleges respond (NYTimes)



tlfamm
03-10-2015, 08:27 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/03/11/business/economy/as-demand-for-welders-resurges-community-colleges-offer-classes.html

As Demand for Welders Resurges, Community Colleges Offer Classes


<quote>
...

In recent decades, welding — like a litany of other blue-collar trades that once provided high-school graduates with a reliable route to the middle class — seemed to have about as promising a future as rotary phones. But many of these once-faltering occupations are finding new life in Texas and the Gulf Coast region, where an industrial revival built around the energy boom continues to spawn petrochemical plants and miles of new pipeline despite the plunge in crude oil prices.

“I’ve never seen anything like it,” said Jim Hanna, a 33-year industry veteran who is now senior director of human resources at the Fluor Corporation, an engineering and construction company that is building petrochemical plants in the area for Dow Chemical, Chevron Phillips Chemical and Sasol. “For a long time, parents didn’t want their son or daughter to become a pipe fitter or welder, but now, the demand for noncollege graduates with vocational skills is huge.”

...
<end quote>

tlfamm
03-10-2015, 08:34 AM
Other news: law-school applications have dropped 24% over the last three years:


http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/12/01/law-school-becomes-buyers-market-as-competition-for-best-students-increases/

"...
The number of first-year law school students fell 11 percent in fall 2013 from fall 2012, part of a striking 24 percent decline in just three years, according to the American Bar Association. The incoming class in 2013 stood at 39,675 students, the smallest first-year class since the 1970s, when law school enrollment began to rise substantially. About two-thirds, or 135, of the association’s accredited law schools, registered a drop in first-year enrollment that year — and little has changed this fall."

loose nut
03-10-2015, 09:52 AM
Just because you are a lawyer or have a degree in "something" doesn't mean you will make a living at it.

On the other hand I made a very (accent on very) good living as a welder.

Carm
03-10-2015, 10:05 AM
"As Demand for Welders Resurges, Community Colleges Offer Classes.... miles of new pipeline...."

Good luck with 798

ncjeeper
03-10-2015, 12:08 PM
Too bad over the years high schools have been doing away with their shop classes.

MTNGUN
03-10-2015, 12:36 PM
these once-faltering occupations are finding new life in Texas and the Gulf Coast region, where an industrial revival built around the energy boom continues to spawn petrochemical plants and miles of new pipeline despite the plunge in crude oil prices.

And therein lies the problem. The fracking bubble will eventually pop. What will happen to all the welders who get laid off?

Welding is linked to construction, and construction is boom or bust. Construction also requires living on the road and working with rough characters. It often involves heavy lifting, crawling on your knees, etc.. In other words, it's a young mans job.

What will happen to those young welders when they get old, have a bad back, bad knees, and failing eyesight?

Welding jobs are not in high demand in my area, nor do they pay much, either.

I enjoy welding, but have poor eyesight and poor coordination, so I will never be a professional-quality welder. I've done my share of industrial construction and industrial maintenance, and it sucked -- strenuous, dirty, dangerous work, lots of traveling required, with no job security.

If you have a natural talent for welding, and can make a steady living at it, fine.

It's not that I'm discouraging anyone from pursuing a skilled trade, if they are so inclined, it's just that being a skilled tradesman no longer ensures that you'll make a living wage or have steady employment.

Rosco-P
03-10-2015, 12:46 PM
"As Demand for Welders Resurges, Community Colleges Offer Classes.... miles of new pipeline...."

Good luck with 798

I could goggle it, but what's 798?

If the gas boom in Dakota wasn't projected to be long term, HomDee wouldn't have built two new stores up there. The first two new stores in the US in a long time.

vincemulhollon
03-10-2015, 01:32 PM
The fracking bubble will eventually pop.

Eventually? Your post date is only an hour ago, I checked to make sure this isn't some 5 year old thread. First bankruptcies, of many, have already begun, etc. Its basically at peak a little while ago. Note that there's jobs for awhile after a bubble peak is reached and the pop has begun, its not like every welder is already unemployed or will be any time soon.

Here's a link to a story with the first 8 bankruptcies in Houston TX, so far.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/08/energy-bankruptcy-idUSL1N0UN2MA20150108

I always wanted to learn to weld for my own skill purposes, and there's probably going to be plenty of space at the local tech school classrooms soon enough.

Last time we discussed welding here, I found its hard to find jobs online around where I live above the level of entry car-x muffler dude around minimum wage, although decent paying jobs do exist with considerable searching.

RussZHC
03-10-2015, 01:58 PM
What will happen to all the welders who get laid off?

Not in the industry but sort of expected it with the drop in crude prices but it still surprised me based solely on how the ads on Kijiji in Alberta (and to a less degree in Saskatchewan) have changed since say November 2014.
Even weldors with years of experience and multiple tickets are scrambling, pages and pages of apprentices/fitters/helpers already in province looking...not sure what those from outside of province hoping to travel and gain work are thinking will happen...lots of equipment just sitting including nearly new welding rigs...I mean good workers with skills will always have something but the glut is gone for the most part.

J.Ramsey
03-10-2015, 02:03 PM
I could goggle it, but what's 798?
http://www.local798.org/

boslab
03-10-2015, 02:56 PM
It's a shame welding courses aren't combined with something else, machining or cad, something like that, putting all your eggs in one basket is never good.
Mark

Rosco-P
03-10-2015, 03:05 PM
http://www.local798.org/

Wouldn't have guess it was a union local, thought it might be the number of a proposed new pipeline.

flylo
03-10-2015, 03:48 PM
Just read an article that stated an 80 year high in crude stockpiled in the U.S. They are running out of places to put it so that would make me think fracking & the oil coast would be slowing down. I'll find the article & post a link.

Different link but almost same info http://www.wsj.com/articles/oil-glut-sparks-latest-dilemma-where-to-put-it-all-1425577673

Still not it but close http://www.econmatters.com/2015/02/us-oil-inventories-soar-to-near-80-year.html

Carm
03-10-2015, 03:53 PM
"Wouldn't have guess it was a union local....."

At one time (in other words, maybe things have changed) 798 had jurisdiction over any interstate laid in the U.S., which includes Alaska of course.
I know many U.A. locals around the country who can't stand 'em.

The likelihood of one of the trainees in the OP getting pipeline work is the same as Al Sharpton waiting tables at a Klan rally.

Forestgnome
03-10-2015, 04:10 PM
Other news: law-school applications have dropped 24% over the last three years:


http://dealbook.nytimes.com/2014/12/01/law-school-becomes-buyers-market-as-competition-for-best-students-increases/

"...
The number of first-year law school students fell 11 percent in fall 2013 from fall 2012, part of a striking 24 percent decline in just three years, according to the American Bar Association. The incoming class in 2013 stood at 39,675 students, the smallest first-year class since the 1970s, when law school enrollment began to rise substantially. About two-thirds, or 135, of the association’s accredited law schools, registered a drop in first-year enrollment that year — and little has changed this fall."

Now that's positive news!

loose nut
03-10-2015, 04:45 PM
It's a shame welding courses aren't combined with something else, machining or cad, something like that, putting all your eggs in one basket is never good.
Mark

Welding is usually a secondary skill, with Millwright, pipefittier, boilermaker and sometimes even machinist, for example, as a primary trade. There are straight welders for some jobs, particularly production welding but that's a different topic.

loose nut
03-10-2015, 04:55 PM
Welding is linked to construction, and construction is boom or bust. Construction also requires living on the road and working with rough characters. It often involves heavy lifting, crawling on your knees, etc.. In other words, it's a young mans job.

What will happen to those young welders when they get old, have a bad back, bad knees, and failing eyesight?



Construction, especially heavy industrial (pipelines, refineries, chem plants etc), is boom or bust so you work all you can during the boom to carry you through the bust. Some workers may only work 6 months a year but still make a good living and as you stated some do have to travel to the work, live in camps and better leave the ass-less welding chaps at work to save their virtue. That's the price to be payed for a good paying job. It's not for everybody.

As far as it being a young mans job, no it isn't. There are lots of older welders out there 30 or 40 years experience. If they couldn't take it they would have quit when they were young. As to the the bad backs, bad knees and failing eyesight they do what anybody else does, they live with it. Lots of jobs will give you those.

Rosco-P
03-10-2015, 04:58 PM
How did the natural gas boom go bust so quickly? I thought some areas of the US were still in the upswing, Pa, NY, Ohio, etc.? They have to get all that gas from the wells to the consumers somehow. It wasn't all that long ago that my neice was in the Dakotas reviewing drilling applications for the DNR/EPA.

loose nut
03-10-2015, 05:01 PM
Could be it is just to much gas available, so it killed further development.

oldtiffie
03-10-2015, 08:51 PM
Having a demand for welders is one thing but many employers will require a fair amount of proven and substantiated "relevant industry experience" as well as up-to-date qualifications and competency certificates.

There may well be quite a period between starting welding in a school and getting those certificates etc.

justanengineer
03-10-2015, 09:06 PM
Eventually? Your post date is only an hour ago, I checked to make sure this isn't some 5 year old thread. First bankruptcies, of many, have already begun, etc. Its basically at peak a little while ago.

:D And like every bubble, those who kept excess cash on hand and arent over-leveraged will make out like bandits. My IRA is up 30% already for the year bc of a few oil stocks I bought myself when they bottomed in January.

Welding's like anything else - if someone has the skill, drive to continually improve themself, value themself properly, and are open to opportunity even if it means relocating theyll do very well. If they limit themself tho, their pay will be equally so.

JoeLee
03-10-2015, 10:37 PM
How did the natural gas boom go bust so quickly? I thought some areas of the US were still in the upswing, Pa, NY, Ohio, etc.? They have to get all that gas from the wells to the consumers somehow. It wasn't all that long ago that my neice was in the Dakotas reviewing drilling applications for the DNR/EPA. There isn't any work in NY for welders that's for sure. Not much of anything here. All the factories and shops I used to do work for either moved out of the state or went out of business because of the high cost of doing business in the state. I can't even find any used machinery any more, all the shops are gone.

JL...............

Rosco-P
03-11-2015, 08:17 AM
There isn't any work in NY for welders that's for sure. Not much of anything here. All the factories and shops I used to do work for either moved out of the state or went out of business because of the high cost of doing business in the state. I can't even find any used machinery any more, all the shops are gone.

JL...............

Weldiing jobs as they relate to oil and natural gas exploration and production. There's no drilling going on New York State?

vpt
03-11-2015, 08:22 AM
Some guys make good livings welding together scrap and calling it art.

loose nut
03-11-2015, 09:36 AM
Some guys make a good living welding together good parts and making it scrap.

BigMike782
03-11-2015, 11:54 AM
Some guys make a good living welding things other than oil and gas pipelines and construction.

Black_Moons
03-11-2015, 01:34 PM
I don't know ANYONE getting rich welding. Even the 'well paid' people are working 6 days a week just to afford a mortgage on their small little house on next to no land, in the middle of nowhere. People I have talked to say pay has not gone up in 20 years, despite the fact that house prices have gone up ten fold here in BC.

Rosco-P
03-11-2015, 02:32 PM
So this is yesterdays news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-2Apzy5mc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCllo5rQWKk

Carm
03-11-2015, 03:05 PM
So this is yesterdays news:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p_-2Apzy5mc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCllo5rQWKk

That is nothing like I know. Button pushers, and very staged.
798 might be prima donnas but most of them can weld pipe.

Rosco-P
03-11-2015, 04:06 PM
That is nothing like I know. Button pushers, and very staged.
798 might be prima donnas but most of them can weld pipe.


How long ago did you retire from the trade?

Button pushers, kind of like CNC operators? Was that because it wasn't stick and out in the open? Seems a robotic MIG welder in a controlled environment could be a way to ensure consistent welds. If the joint was properly prepped, aligned, machine set-up and operated correctly, etc., etc....

Yes, the videos were a little contrived. Were you expecting something of the level that a High School Guidance councilor would show?

Carm
03-11-2015, 07:29 PM
How long ago did you retire from the trade?

1993

Button pushers, kind of like CNC operators? Was that because it wasn't stick and out in the open? Seems a robotic MIG welder in a controlled environment could be a way to ensure consistent welds. If the joint was properly prepped, aligned, machine set-up and operated correctly, etc., etc....

[COLOR="#FF8C00"]What is a CNC operator? Someone who develops a program, selects feeds/speeds/tools, can make a setup, knows how to inspect & troubleshoot? Or someone who does indeed just push a button, another person having done the foregoing?
I don't have a problem with semi or automatic welding. Sub-arc has long been the standard for double jointing, and if you could roll pipe all the way to Houston that's how they would do it. But sub-arc required a bead and hot pass first. MIG welding apparently is gaining ground. Last I knew, Pemex was trying it with a miserable acceptance rate.

Like CNC it is a way to get the work done. Some pipe welding does get milled preps and precision fits. Cross country is about hauling ass. A welder that fusses with the fit can't make time, yet once he strikes, it's his. That requires skill and judgement on the fly.

Out in the open? No. API code requires the weld be protected from rain/snow/freezing. Note I say weld, not welder.

The guys in the vid must have been filling, not bead or hot pass. CRC has long been an innovator, nothing against them. Just seems less skill required to run a short-arc along a track while you scream...asleep at the wheel?

Yes, the videos were a little contrived. Were you expecting something of the level that a High School Guidance councilor would show?

I'd hope a guidance counselor would show more of the whole scope of welding...repair, fabrication, maintenance, exotic metals and glovebox applications. NOT that video, which would convince anyone to dig ditches instead. And point out that all welders go to heaven, they've already been through enough heat & fire in this life.

Rosco-P
03-11-2015, 08:40 PM
I'd hope a guidance counselor would show more of the whole scope of welding...repair, fabrication, maintenance, exotic metals and glovebox applications. NOT that video, which would convince anyone to dig ditches instead. And point out that all welders go to heaven, they've already been through enough heat & fire in this life.

I hope you didn't get offended by either of the videos in the link. My intent, to show that there is still pipeline work being done. Based on the date of the second one, it would seem so, at least in Canada. It can't be all doom and gloom as some have posted.

The MIG welding being done in the portable hut was a finish pass? A crew preceding them would have done the fit-up and hot pass?

wierdscience
03-11-2015, 10:39 PM
It's not just welding,it's all skilled trades,production or service.Too many kids being pushed into useless and very expensive college degrees only to move back in with mom and dad when they find out there are no jobs in their field.

Carm
03-12-2015, 08:29 AM
I hope you didn't get offended by either of the videos in the link. My intent, to show that there is still pipeline work being done. Based on the date of the second one, it would seem so, at least in Canada. It can't be all doom and gloom as some have posted.

The MIG welding being done in the portable hut was a finish pass? A crew preceding them would have done the fit-up and hot pass?

Hail no I wasn't offended. Yes that looked like Canada, and they weren't 798'ers. But there is probably more work going on than most people realize. We visited friends in Pa. over the Marcellus and I saw a bunch of guys I knew, both welders and x-ray hands.

Pipelines would certainly solve the problems of rail transport. It's too bad AHJ's can't get together and group right of ways, i.e. pipeline, rail and electric all together. Lots of nimby fighting, and I'm sympathetic.

I didn't scrutinize to see if the welders in the video were capping. But yes, unless it's a tie-in, the line up will have bead hands, followed by hot pass, then fill then cap. Sometimes bead hands run the hot pass if it's HYP since it can be crack sensitive and API specs five minutes. Used to be bead and hot pass got better pay. A tie-in welder has to be there for the duration including third party approval. Longest for me was eighteen hours.

Rosco-P
03-12-2015, 09:25 AM
Pipelines would certainly solve the problems of rail transport. It's too bad AHJ's can't get together and group right of ways, i.e. pipeline, rail and electric all together. Lots of nimby fighting, and I'm sympathetic.


If we'd stop the Rails to Trails BS, we have thousands of mile of inteconnected ROW to use for electrical distribution and pipelines.

loose nut
03-12-2015, 09:41 AM
Why you shouldn't send your kids to collage.

The main purpose of schools, collage/university or primary, isn't to teach anyone anything, it is to support the collage and the people that teach and work there. They want your money and if your kid doesn't learn anything it doesn't really mater.

80% of people that enter a university drop out before their last year.

A few weeks ago it was announced on the news that only about 20% of those that graduate actually get a job in the field that they studied for.

Combine the two and only 5% of those that start collage get a job in what they went to school for.

95%of those students should have stayed home and got a job at Mcdonald's because that is probably were they ended up working anyways but with a heavy debt load.

Still want your kids to go to collage. Teach them a skill that they can use.

Rustybolt
03-12-2015, 10:14 AM
Waubonsee Community College has a welding program obstensively to provide welders for CAT. Both of the instructors welded for oil companies. One of them was an non-degreed engineer for BP-AMACO. After 2 years you get a technical certificate and you have a smattering of CAD, metallurgy, and machining.
Everybody has to start somewhere and that looks like a pretty good start.