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Axkiker
03-10-2015, 10:43 AM
Not sure what im gonna do with it. Its missing the spindle but if I keep it together I could come up with something. Seems like its fairly old based on the cables etc.

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q633/Axkiker/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/06948748-5554-4D18-B75F-2B9A254DBE9C.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/Axkiker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/06948748-5554-4D18-B75F-2B9A254DBE9C.jpg.html)

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q633/Axkiker/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/E052D82F-EF34-4E1E-95AA-202096786A35.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/Axkiker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/E052D82F-EF34-4E1E-95AA-202096786A35.jpg.html)

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q633/Axkiker/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/1CFD4C2C-C3DC-42AC-A25E-C2097DE50F62.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/Axkiker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/1CFD4C2C-C3DC-42AC-A25E-C2097DE50F62.jpg.html)

http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q633/Axkiker/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/37BFF57E-3E34-4F1F-98F5-17C16B57E664.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/Axkiker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/37BFF57E-3E34-4F1F-98F5-17C16B57E664.jpg.html)

Axkiker
03-10-2015, 10:48 AM
I really bought it for the steppers and linear rails. I would like to build a stepper powered dividing head and a drill sharpening rig with the rails. After looking it over I kinda hate to tear it apart. Its not a real heavily built unit but at the same time its not a home built pos either. The entire frame is all aluminum and seems pretty descent.

I guess it may come down to the electronics and if they can be reused. What do you all think. It was only 60.00 so im not losing anything buy tearing it apart if I decide to do so.

MrFluffy
03-10-2015, 11:24 AM
I would say thats probably comparable to what they ebay as small light chinese diy milling machines now. Add a old pc with a real parallel port and hook it up and see what works.
Then run linuxcnc or mach on the pc and your away. Might make a nice engraver setup with the right spindle in, or a wood router, or one of those cooking extruder heads for a cake decorator or a 3d printer or lots of other options. Worth a play in my book.

Axkiker
03-10-2015, 12:50 PM
I would say thats probably comparable to what they ebay as small light chinese diy milling machines now. Add a old pc with a real parallel port and hook it up and see what works.
Then run linuxcnc or mach on the pc and your away. Might make a nice engraver setup with the right spindle in, or a wood router, or one of those cooking extruder heads for a cake decorator or a 3d printer or lots of other options. Worth a play in my book.

Yeah I think you are right.. I can always buy another stepper motor for the indexing head project. Heck it came with an extra I may just be able to use it for that project. I can always just grab one of those small roto zip cutters from Lowes and use it as a spindle in the beginning. I have needed something to make smaller plastic items I could reproduce by casting.. This might just be the ticket and would give me some experience 3d modeling and leaning about cnc.

Yondering
03-10-2015, 03:09 PM
Maybe when the cat finishes reading the directions he can figure out what to do with it?

Axkiker
03-10-2015, 07:37 PM
Maybe when the cat finishes reading the directions he can figure out what to do with it?

I asked the little skank.. She said it was too complicated for me. Dumb cats.

Weston Bye
03-10-2015, 07:48 PM
Sherline sells a 10000 rpm spindle that could be easily adapted to that, $380, motor and all.
http://www.sherline.com/4335pg.htm

chrisinestes
03-10-2015, 07:55 PM
Cool... Is there a control box? I use Mach3 on my CNC router table. It's about $170 I think. My control box is made by Soigeneris STDR-4C... $850. It uses a Gecko G540 to power/control the stepper motors. A smart guy could probably build his own controller with the Gecko G540 and save some money. For tool path software I use Vectric VCarve Pro, which is about $6oo. It doesn't do much 3D though. You can buy ArtCAM Express for $150, it'll do a lot more 3D stuff. And there's likely 78 other ways to go...

The router/spindle speed is pretty important to get good cuts and long tool life. But that's a whole different subject, and it's dinner time!

Chris

Axkiker
03-10-2015, 08:31 PM
Sherline sells a 10000 rpm spindle that could be easily adapted to that, $380, motor and all.
http://www.sherline.com/4335pg.htm

Yeah that makes sense. The guy I got it from said he bought it for the sherline head and never used the rest for anything.

I'm prolly not leaning toward spending that much for a spindle. I intend on using it only for some light plastics and maybe wood. I think if I spend that much ill want to upgrade the entire unit. Im hoping that a simple rotozip or smaller router would work for now.

time will tell. Ive always have intentions of building a much larger ridged machine which would cut aluminum. This should get me accustom to how stuff works.

Axkiker
03-10-2015, 08:37 PM
Cool... Is there a control box? I use Mach3 on my CNC router table. It's about $170 I think. My control box is made by Soigeneris STDR-4C... $850. It uses a Gecko G540 to power/control the stepper motors. A smart guy could probably build his own controller with the Gecko G540 and save some money. For tool path software I use Vectric VCarve Pro, which is about $6oo. It doesn't do much 3D though. You can buy ArtCAM Express for $150, it'll do a lot more 3D stuff. And there's likely 78 other ways to go...

The router/spindle speed is pretty important to get good cuts and long tool life. But that's a whole different subject, and it's dinner time!

Chris

Well there are 3 individual boards all with an xyz label. They all seem to have power wires to the board as well as a parallel port. They are all also tied to a single parallel. I assume these are the control boards and no additional board is needed. ( I could be wrong ) If so im going to figure out some way to mount it all in an old PC tower case.

The part im trying to figure out is it came with 2 large transformers. One which is 110 to 12v DC and another 110 to 24Vdc. I thought these things needed upwards of 38 volts dc.

The 12 V transformer I assume is for powering the fans... but dont the fans take much less voltage.

Lastly the 24V transformer doesnt give any diagrams. So I cant figure out how to wire it up.

lakeside53
03-10-2015, 09:55 PM
Check out the out the GRBL Arduino based g-code controller. Puts out 3 axis step/direction and more... getting very mature. oh.. it's free. I used it a year back and it was pretty solid then. Simple UNO board (or Mega, IDE and more) , load program, terminal program or one of several GUI, and start using.

https://github.com/grbl/grbl/blob/edge/README.md
https://github.com/grbl/grbl

RichR
03-11-2015, 02:32 AM
The part im trying to figure out is it came with 2 large transformers. One which is 110 to 12v DC and another 110 to 24Vdc. I thought these things needed upwards of 38 volts dc.
24 volts rectified and filtered will get you to about 32 volts DC.

Lastly the 24V transformer doesnt give any diagrams. So I cant figure out how to wire it up.
Drive one winding with 12 VAC. If the other winding measures about 60 VAC it's the primary. If it measures about 2.5 VAC it's the secondary.

MrFluffy
03-11-2015, 05:37 AM
Well there are 3 individual boards all with an xyz label. They all seem to have power wires to the board as well as a parallel port. They are all also tied to a single parallel. I assume these are the control boards and no additional board is needed. ( I could be wrong ) If so im going to figure out some way to mount it all in an old PC tower case.

The part im trying to figure out is it came with 2 large transformers. One which is 110 to 12v DC and another 110 to 24Vdc. I thought these things needed upwards of 38 volts dc.

The 12 V transformer I assume is for powering the fans... but dont the fans take much less voltage.

Lastly the 24V transformer doesnt give any diagrams. So I cant figure out how to wire it up.

It has a parport for the computer to be the control box. The computer runs mach or linuxcnc and that flips the bits on the parport to switch various functions on or off. I think you have a handle on how it hangs together though, that is the parport connected card has daughter boards for the stepper drivers which then connect to the steppers. Having them individually done as daughterboards means if you blow a stepper driver or want to upgrade you can.


If you look at your stepper drivers, they should have something identifying them which will tell you the drive voltages they want.
Fans can take any voltage, you can look up the part number to find out, and probably the breakout board that connects to the pc wants a 12 or 5v supply too, but it will be marked as such.

Axkiker
03-11-2015, 02:19 PM
It has a parport for the computer to be the control box. The computer runs mach or linuxcnc and that flips the bits on the parport to switch various functions on or off. I think you have a handle on how it hangs together though, that is the parport connected card has daughter boards for the stepper drivers which then connect to the steppers. Having them individually done as daughterboards means if you blow a stepper driver or want to upgrade you can.


If you look at your stepper drivers, they should have something identifying them which will tell you the drive voltages they want.
Fans can take any voltage, you can look up the part number to find out, and probably the breakout board that connects to the pc wants a 12 or 5v supply too, but it will be marked as such.

Okay you lost me on parport. Is that an additional board the computer needs? My assumption was that the parallel which ties all three of the boards together would be connected to the parallel of the computer running the show. Maybe im wrong.

MrFluffy
03-11-2015, 06:49 PM
Sorry, shorthand parport= parallel port.
Yes you have it right, the control software on the pc changes the state of the pins on its parallel port, and then relays or controls etc are on those pins and broke out by the breakout board that has the parallel port socket on it.

Axkiker
03-11-2015, 07:14 PM
Sorry, shorthand parport= parallel port.
Yes you have it right, the control software on the pc changes the state of the pins on its parallel port, and then relays or controls etc are on those pins and broke out by the breakout board that has the parallel port socket on it.


gotcha.... Thanks for the help.

Now to search for an older comp with a parallel.... or parport as I have now learned.

Any thoughts on using one of the pcmcia parallel port adapters if I wanted to use a newer laptop

Axkiker
03-11-2015, 07:15 PM
Check out the out the GRBL Arduino based g-code controller. Puts out 3 axis step/direction and more... getting very mature. oh.. it's free. I used it a year back and it was pretty solid then. Simple UNO board (or Mega, IDE and more) , load program, terminal program or one of several GUI, and start using.

https://github.com/grbl/grbl/blob/edge/README.md
https://github.com/grbl/grbl

I do like that idea... I think if these electronics are found to not work or be too problematic I would go that route. NYCNC has a couple great videos on setting them up.

chrisinestes
03-11-2015, 07:46 PM
From yesterday to today, the VCarvePro software I told you about was upgraded to support a lot more 3D design & tool pathing... I just thought I'd let you know.

Chris

Axkiker
03-11-2015, 08:34 PM
From yesterday to today, the VCarvePro software I told you about was upgraded to support a lot more 3D design & tool pathing... I just thought I'd let you know.

Chris

Thanks for reminding me of this.. Im kinda getting overwhelmed with all the pieces and parts that go into this stuff. Not to mention my 30 other projects LOL

So is VCarvePro a program that you design in or what actually runs the CNC control.

Let me make sure im getting all this right. You design your product in a program like Solid Works, or 123Design, or many others.. You use that program to make a file of Gcode which is used in another program like Mach3 to run the system

Does this sound correct ?

With all that said what programs do you all recommend to start designing in? Way back I was able to use some program provided by Google pretty good. Not sure if it would convert into G code but for a free program it was pretty darn good.

I have messed with 123design and am learning as I go.

I would love to be good at SolidWorks but that looks like a lot to learn on your own...

Any thoughts ?

Axkiker
03-24-2015, 10:06 PM
Okay back to fooling with this CNC thingy I found on craigs. It came with a couple power supplies, neither of which were labeled all that well or with any enclosures. Both were just transformers / rectifiers / caps arranged on aluminum plates. Looks as if they may have been pulled from the original enclosure.

Soooo I wanted to see if I could use a typical ole computer power supply to power both the controller board fans and the steppers. I looked up the specs on the motors I have and came up with the following for the largest motor.

Motor Type 2-Phase

Holding Torque
Bipolar (Series) 240 oz-in
Unipolar 191 oz-in

Shaft/Gear Type View
Round Shaft (No Gearhead)
Shaft Single

Type Standard
Encoder None
Step Angle 1.8

Connection Type
Bipolar (Series)
Unipolar

Current per Phase (A/phase)
1 [Unipolar]
0.71 [Bipolar (Series)]

Lead Wires 6

Voltage (VDC)
12 [Bipolar (Series)]
8.6 [Unipolar]

Resistance (Ω/phase)
17.2 [Bipolar (Series)]
8.6 [Unipolar]

The motors I have are the unipolar units which would be 8.6V / 1A. I'm really confused because the power supply which came with this setup is for 24V.... Would overpowering the boards to this degree not blow them ??? Since the biggest motor on this setup is 8.6 V / 1A could I just use a typical computer power supply (12V) and eliminate those other crappy units? The boards have no input specs and are from 1999.. So im unlikely to find any help regarding.

Thanks

Axkiker
03-26-2015, 09:11 AM
Nothin ????? come on now dont be shy

lakeside53
03-26-2015, 12:08 PM
Within some limits the PSU voltage doesn't matter to the motor- your stepper driver will take care of that - it's more about current, not voltage. I run a bunch of 3.2 and 2.4 volt steppers via a stepper driver at 24 volts with no issues.

First determine what driver are you going to use, then use the driver manf data to determine what power supply you need.,

sch
03-26-2015, 01:08 PM
As per lakeside, voltage to drive steppers is pulsed, so stepper motor only sees for short time. Stepper drivers generally need power supplies of 10-20x the "rated voltage" on the
stepper motor. Here is a primer on steppers and controllers: http://www.geckodrive.com/support.html
The current rating on the motor is important and the stepper driver will have some way of adjusting the current to a fixed value.

Axkiker
03-26-2015, 01:57 PM
Within some limits the PSU voltage doesn't matter to the motor- your stepper driver will take care of that - it's more about current, not voltage. I run a bunch of 3.2 and 2.4 volt steppers via a stepper driver at 24 volts with no issues.

First determine what driver are you going to use, then use the driver manf data to determine what power supply you need.,

Well thats my problem... these are from 1999 and I cant find any info. Maybe I can look a little closer at the components and possibly get some numbers I can cross reference.

Axkiker
03-26-2015, 01:59 PM
As per lakeside, voltage to drive steppers is pulsed, so stepper motor only sees for short time. Stepper drivers generally need power supplies of 10-20x the "rated voltage" on the
stepper motor. Here is a primer on steppers and controllers: http://www.geckodrive.com/support.html
The current rating on the motor is important and the stepper driver will have some way of adjusting the current to a fixed value.

Well doesnt appear the little computer power supply I wanted to use will work... but maybe I can use it just to get the thing moving a little. I just didnt want to blow stuff up.

dockterj
03-26-2015, 02:08 PM
Post any numbers you find on the controller boards and/or detailed pictures of the front and back of the controllers. I just got a craigslist deal of a bunch of steppers, controllers and a power supply for $75 so I'm thinking about what to do with it all :)

Axkiker
03-26-2015, 10:51 PM
http://i1167.photobucket.com/albums/q633/Axkiker/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/0FBC18D3-FEAF-421E-9E7B-58463F76DCD9.jpg (http://s1167.photobucket.com/user/Axkiker/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2015-03/0FBC18D3-FEAF-421E-9E7B-58463F76DCD9.jpg.html)

Axkiker
03-26-2015, 10:52 PM
no real numbers etc on the back

Axkiker
03-27-2015, 08:42 AM
Okay... was able to get a closer look to the chip which is setting on the board in an angle. Its hard to see but it did have a number I was able to cross reference SLA706M

Found this on the web. Looks like I now know what size power supply I need.


ABSOLUTE MAXIMUM RATINGS
at TA = +25C
Load Supply Voltage, VBB . . . . . . . . . . . . 46 V
FET Output Voltage, VDS . . . . . . . . . . . 100 V
Control Supply Voltage, VCC . . . . . . . . . . 46 V
Peak Output Current, IOUTM (tw ≤ 100 μs)
SLA7024M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0 A
SLA7026M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5.0 A
SMA7029M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0 A
Continuous Output Current, IOUT
SLA7024M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.5 A
SLA7026M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3.0 A
SMA7029M . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1.5 A
Input Voltage Range, VIN . . . . -0.3 V to 7.0 V
Reference Voltage, VREF . . . . . . . . . . . 2.0 V
Package Power Dissipation, PD . See Graph
Junction Temperature, TJ . . . . . . . . . +150C
Operating Temperature Range,
TA . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -20C to +85C
Storage Temperature Range,
Tstg . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . -40C to +150C

chrisinestes
03-29-2015, 05:03 PM
Whew... I'm back... It's been a busy couple three weeks. I've been trying to choose and source new materials for a couple projects at work, and I've been picking parts for my first ever built-myself computer to run this new 3D stuff. With the addition of the 3D stuff, the old 'puter just runs tooooooooooooo slooowwwwwww...... Intel i7-4790K 4GHz CPU and an Asus Z97 Pro MoBo, in case anybody is curious.

Regarding power supplies and building your own control box, I have no idea. I was trying to do the same thing myself, but it was over my head and I was running out of time, so I ended up buying one, and running Mach3 to control the control box.

Regarding design software... I know a little more about that.

VCarve is a program that you can do design work in, create your tool paths, and then generate the G-Code for your controller/controller software.

I use a different CAD program for most of my drawing, then I import that into VCarve. I do it that way because my other CAD program is more powerful, and I'm used to it. Now that VCarve has added some 3D capabilities, I will still do most of my 2D CAD work in my other program, but then bring it into VCarve to do any of the 3D work. VCarve Pro isn't a fully functioning 3D CAD program, but it's great for the $600 it costs. Vectric's Aspire is their version of a full 3D design/modeling program for use on a 3_Axis machine. It's $2000, and I think you could find a cheaper way to do the same stuff these days, but I haven't gotten far into working on that. Other companies that I know of that make 3-Axis 3D design/Toolpath/G-Code software for CNC routers are ArtCAM, and EnRoute. You'll spend around the same $2k for each of their top of the line 3-Axis CAD packages. ArtCAM has an entry level CAD program called ArtCAM Express, for $150. It's pretty amazing for $150, so much so that I bought it for a couple specific projects. Now that VCarve Pro 8 is out, I don't need it anymore.

I've never used Solidworks or anything like it. It's high end full 3D software, and mostly it would be overkill if all you were doing was designing for a 3-Axis machine. I recently bought ViaCAD Pro V7 for $30. When I get time, I'll play with it. I think between ViaCAD and VCarve Pro, I wouldn't need to spend the $1400 to upgrade from VCarve to Aspire.

That's my experience... There are likely cheaper, but just as good alternatives out there. Usually, more money = quicker results, less money = more time to figure it out.

Let me know if I can help you out... I'll give it my best try. Keep us up to date on your progress. In the back of my head, I'm thinking I may end up wanting a much smaller & faster 3-Axis CNC router table for a line of products, if it takes off. I'd likely build one "from scratch" to save several thousand dollars.

Anyway... I'll quit typing now...
Chris

radkins
03-29-2015, 06:58 PM
For sure that's one very well fed cat!

MrFluffy
03-30-2015, 06:33 AM
VCarve is a program that you can do design work in, create your tool paths, and then generate the G-Code for your controller/controller software.

I use a different CAD program for most of my drawing, then I import that into VCarve. I do it that way because my other CAD program is more powerful, and I'm used to it. Now that VCarve has added some 3D capabilities, I will still do most of my 2D CAD work in my other program, but then bring it into VCarve to do any of the 3D work. VCarve Pro isn't a fully functioning 3D CAD program, but it's great for the $600 it costs. Vectric's Aspire is their version of a full 3D design/modeling program for use on a 3_Axis machine. It's $2000, and I think you could find a cheaper way to do the same stuff these days, but I haven't gotten far into working on that. Other companies that I know of that make 3-Axis 3D design/Toolpath/G-Code software for CNC routers are ArtCAM, and EnRoute. You'll spend around the same $2k for each of their top of the line 3-Axis CAD packages. ArtCAM has an entry level CAD program called ArtCAM Express, for $150. It's pretty amazing for $150, so much so that I bought it for a couple specific projects. Now that VCarve Pro 8 is out, I don't need it anymore.

Or you could try F-Engrave by scorchworks, which is free & runs under windows or linux.
http://www.scorchworks.com/Fengrave/fengrave.html

The text to carve function on my linuxcnc controlled bridgeport.
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38725-1/circle_writing.jpg

And the same program at work doing a dxf line to carve duty (its a quilting frame pantograph for my wife). Not the finest quality but I have nowhere near enough spindle speed to cope with wood cleanly (that is in hand with a auxillary spindle project).
http://gallery.pipandphil.com/d/38728-1/quiltpantograph1.jpg

He has some gcode compensation software that Im about to try too, and he has a probe design on thingiverse to probe the surface with if you really feel like doing things yourself.
http://www.scorchworks.com/Gcoderipper/gcoderipper.html