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View Full Version : Deckel KF 12 Pantograph any knowledge out there



Tundra Twin Track
06-14-2015, 03:23 PM
Was wondering if anyone has used this machine before,this one has spindle lock so you can use it for milling.

johnnyd
06-14-2015, 04:23 PM
The Practical Machinist website is the place to go for anything "Deckel" related.

John

boslab
06-14-2015, 08:36 PM
I've played with one, the spindle lock was just that, the pantograph lock was a hole in the copy table the stylus dropped down locking the mechanism, nearly all the bigger pantos have a similar arrangement, the Taylor Hobson I have is the same, it allows for basic x,y,z milling, or rotary table.
(Is rotary r?)
Mark

Tundra Twin Track
06-14-2015, 09:00 PM
I've played with one, the spindle lock was just that, the pantograph lock was a hole in the copy table the stylus dropped down locking the mechanism, nearly all the bigger pantos have a similar arrangement, the Taylor Hobson I have is the same, it allows for basic x,y,z milling, or rotary table.
(Is rotary r?)
Mark Hey Mark do you use it as a mill or Pantograph ,can you make badges out of mild steel or soft metals. Thanks

oldtiffie
06-15-2015, 05:34 AM
https://www.google.com.au/?gws_rd=ssl#q=Deckel+KF+12+Pantograph+

https://www.google.com.au/search?q=Deckel+KF+12+Pantograph&biw=1536&bih=710&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0CBwQsARqFQoTCLjEyYaykcYCFQRAvAod15oAoQ

.....

boslab
06-15-2015, 06:42 AM
The guy that comes to mind that knows how to do just about any damn thing with a dekel posts on here, he is currently making an absolutely amazing 1/3 size copy of a colt 1911, he has posted links to his videos on the tube, which he has loads of, including some really nice shaping machine ones, Stephan something, a seriously talented guy btw, he uses it as a mill, panto mill, engraver and some, perhaps someone can remember his post, I'm going to dig.
You can make badges, signs mill, make EDM copper electrodes, it's a versatile machine, if you have a cnc router you can make Perspex masters to reduce to make steel parts, complex ones that most cnc mills don't have the rigidity for, they also make pretty decent high speed drills, the spindle speed is ideal for tiny carbide drills in the thou range, I did a few jets with a 12 thou drill, no problem.
I'm surprised that they lost out as cnc mills took thier place, most got scrapped, my little taylor is a toy compared to a dekel, much more up market.
Mark

Ed P
06-15-2015, 07:41 AM
The guy that comes to mind that knows how to do just about any damn thing with a dekel posts on here, he is currently making an absolutely amazing 1/3 size copy of a colt 1911, he has posted links to his videos on the tube, which he has loads of, including some really nice shaping machine ones, Stephan something, a seriously talented guy btw, he uses it as a mill, panto mill, engraver and some, perhaps someone can remember his post, I'm going to dig.

Mark

Stefan Gotteswinter perhaps? He has a Deckel G1L. https://www.youtube.com/user/syyl/videos

EdP

Tundra Twin Track
06-16-2015, 01:10 AM
Thanks for feedback guys,machine 2200 miles away have to decide if I make use of it.Have a large Varnamo mill,so would use for copying mostly.

boslab
06-16-2015, 01:57 AM
It's a bit far!, shipping that beast will probably cost more than the machine!, that said it's a nice machine, tedious to use btw, it can get boring, raise table, trace, repeat ad nausium, however if your patient the results are nice, good for dies and such, also handy for cutting out sheet metal I discovered, one guy in the shop used to cut model locos out of sheet brass, think he bought it when it was scrapped, I missed out there!
Too busy carting anything else I could, there were two of them, I found one in a scrap bin, it had been picked up by a 32 ton excavator with a grab on so was fairly smashed beyond use
Mark

schor
06-16-2015, 09:12 AM
Thanks for feedback guys,machine 2200 miles away have to decide if I make use of it.Have a large Varnamo mill,so would use for copying mostly.

2200 miles? It's not that far to london ontario is it?

http://www.kijiji.ca/v-power-tool/london/deckel-kf-12-pantograph-milling-machine/1055368226?enableSearchNavigationFlag=true

hmm, looked it up and it is 3200kms.

longtimeKF12user
02-26-2016, 10:11 AM
I've used the KF12 to make a living for 30 years. There is not much info out there on how to use it properly.
To use it well, it takes a knack that develops over time. I've used all the attachments at one time or another.
I especially liked the reverse image attachment. You could make a right hand part out of a left hand part.
I made models and cast them with epoxy to use as duplicating models. I used the machine on all sorts of
products. From auto parts to sex toys to candy molds etc. The last job I did was to copy a blow mold for a
watering can about 6-7 years ago. Now my two machines sit. I will scrap them soon. It's not so much that CNC
is better or worse. It's more that auto cad is how things are developed these days. From auto cad, you can create
a 3-d model to test the concept and then program tool-path of the cnc for electrodes etc. In the last 10 years or
so they developed high speed CNC machines that run up to 40K rpm and use diamond impregnated carbide cutters
that virtually don't wear out. This is a great setup for multiple cavity tooling. But the Deckel could still be used for one
or two cavity type work and repairs but nobody thinks of it anymore so work just dried up. Add to that, more stuff being
made in China and machinists are not needed so much any more.

Tundra Twin Track
02-27-2016, 03:43 PM
I've used the KF12 to make a living for 30 years. There is not much info out there on how to use it properly.
To use it well, it takes a knack that develops over time. I've used all the attachments at one time or another.
I especially liked the reverse image attachment. You could make a right hand part out of a left hand part.
I made models and cast them with epoxy to use as duplicating models. I used the machine on all sorts of
products. From auto parts to sex toys to candy molds etc. The last job I did was to copy a blow mold for a
watering can about 6-7 years ago. Now my two machines sit. I will scrap them soon. It's not so much that CNC
is better or worse. It's more that auto cad is how things are developed these days. From auto cad, you can create
a 3-d model to test the concept and then program tool-path of the cnc for electrodes etc. In the last 10 years or
so they developed high speed CNC machines that run up to 40K rpm and use diamond impregnated carbide cutters
that virtually don't wear out. This is a great setup for multiple cavity tooling. But the Deckel could still be used for one
or two cavity type work and repairs but nobody thinks of it anymore so work just dried up. Add to that, more stuff being
made in China and machinists are not needed so much any more.

Let me know before you scrap them longtime,I sent you a PM.

Chris Evans
02-27-2016, 04:54 PM
I used one in the Sixties then off and on at different jobs over the next 45 years. Used all the attachments to. I retired from a place and the machine sits idle gathering dust as I was the only one who could/wanted to ? use it. I would not buy one to use as a mill at home much to limited for that, no quill for drilling etc.
As a copy mill I used to make some big dies on it and it was hard work to operate one for ten hours a day. Very physical. Also a very heavy machine for its size. They also made a KF1 version without the powered knee/table.

Baz
02-27-2016, 05:11 PM
Reverse image attachment? some pictures would be nice. I don't see mention in the manual or any pictures on an initial search.

longtimeKF12user
03-12-2016, 12:30 PM
It's explained in the manual under attachments. I used the words reverse image
because that is what I was taught that it was called.
It referred as the symmetrical duplicating attachment in the manual.
I cannot post attachments or pictures, I guess I'm too new on this forum.

TGTool
03-12-2016, 02:18 PM
I cannot post attachments or pictures, I guess I'm too new on this forum.

No one can post attachments on the forum (server safety feature) but if stored somewhere else like Photobucket you can add a link to a comment here. Take a look at a sticky note on the forum topic list about posting photos.