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Guido
06-30-2015, 01:10 PM
From 1943 Higgins Boats drawing: 'Item xx, "red fibre".

Used as a 1/16 in. thick X 3 inch dia. friction material twixt two aluminum discs. Discs are separated by the 'red fiber' friction material which resists slow rotation. Savvy????

Any ideas of sourcing or substituting a material for such an application? McMaster-Carr, scratched.

--G

sarge41
06-30-2015, 01:17 PM
Guido: it could be something like micarta, since it's that old.

Sarge

EddyCurr
06-30-2015, 01:29 PM
Any ideas of sourcing or substituting a material for such an application?My vote is to look to a clutch and brake relining service
or material vendor for organic disc material. For ex:


D & W Clutch and Brake (http://www.dwclutch.com/D&W/D&W%20Clutch%20&%20Brake%202/Friction%20Materials.htm)

It is likely not necessary to go very far outside your
neighborhood to source material if there is any kind
of industrial presence in the community.

3" OD seems likely to be for a low load environment.
A '60's era 12HP lawn tractor has a simple clutch
with perhaps 5-6" OD material on the disc.

Is this for a dry or wet (oil bath) application ?

.

EddyCurr
06-30-2015, 02:02 PM
The terms "Fiber/Fibre Friction Washer" brings up
some ready-made washers in sizes close to what
you ask about.

One application is for lawn mower blades (http://www.arkansas-ope.com/FIBER_WASHERS.html)

Another is for vintage motorcycle springer suspension (http://www.flatlandmotorcyclecompany.com/Fiber-friction-washer-pair-2790-30-Prodview.html)

.

EddyCurr
06-30-2015, 02:15 PM
McMaster-Carr, scratched.Why is McMaster scratched?

I see they list sheets and strips of several types of
materials in various grades suppiled in sheets and strips

Brake and Clutch Lining (http://www.mcmaster.com/#friction-material/=xunp6d)

One example: Molded Sheet - 1/8" x 7-1/2 x 7-1/2 Low Friction

Further down, there is PTFE-Coated Fiberglass Fabric and Aramid-and-Fiberglass Fabric

.

RWO
06-30-2015, 02:27 PM
Google "red fibre". multiple sources and specs. Here's one page : http://electrical-insulation.espemfg.com/viewitems/vulcanized-fibre/fibre-sheets?

RWO

winchman
06-30-2015, 05:53 PM
Phenolic materials are used in a variety of clutch and brake applications.

boslab
06-30-2015, 06:05 PM
I think scratched was searched but you have the same demonic possession of your spell checker as me
Mark

GNM109
07-01-2015, 12:40 AM
I built a steering damper for my Harley Dyna this year. I used a moving disc linked to the front fork which moves between two fixed metal discs. The fixed discs are lined with 1/8" thick leather that is glued on with contact cement. Tension is maintained with an adjustable knob that controls spring tension on the discs. It works very well, in fact better than the hydraulic damper that it replaced. It acts to smooth and stabilize the handling on the Dyna frame which has very quick steering.

EddyCurr
07-01-2015, 09:30 AM
GNM109, leather is somewhat hydrophilic.

Is the leather used in your damper shielded from moisture
or is adjustment necessary from time to time to compensate
for humidity/rain in order to maintain a given level of damping?

.

Rustybolt
07-01-2015, 12:29 PM
Cork?

GNM109
07-01-2015, 12:54 PM
GNM109, leather is somewhat hydrophilic.

Is the leather used in your damper shielded from moisture
or is adjustment necessary from time to time to compensate
for humidity/rain in order to maintain a given level of damping?

.

There is no exposure moisture other than what is in the atmosphere. I don't ride in the rain and I never wash my motorcycles. In any case, only the edges of the discs are exposed to the air. The leather is a heavy Cordoban type and has some natural oils in it. It really is ideal. It's glued to the fixed discs with contact cement.

Perhaps you are familiar with the leather belting use in line shafting in vintage factories. Also, it was used on vintage motorcycles for drive belts. As we all know, it's a very useful material.

Someone here mentioned cork. I could also use cork. I recall that all of the British bikes I formerly owned used cork inserts in their clutch plates. These were run in oil and wold last a long time. I'm speaking of BSA, Ariel, Triumph, AJS, Matrchless. Norton, James, etc.

Here is a picture of the final unit in place with its knurled control knob. It's all Stainless steel except for the knob which is aluminum and, of course, the leather. LOL

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/gnm109/Motorcycles/Friction%20Steering%20Damper%206-23-15%20001_zpsxabjcnq6.jpg

Here is an earlier picture before I added the Knurled knob. Tension is maintained with a 7/16" lock washer. You can see the edges of the leather discs. Cork would be an excellent alternative material as well. The unit will adjust from no drag to nearly full lock. I run it with a reasonable setting to maintain a good feel. I left two holes in the control arm for different leverage. It's made a tremendous difference. It replaces an hydraulic unit that was not very effective.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r188/gnm109/Motorcycles/Friction%20Steering%20Damper%206-17-15%20006_zpsp2j4wjg3.jpg

EddyCurr
07-01-2015, 01:15 PM
GNM109, nice work on that damper.

I perceive the damper (controlled friction) application to be
sensitive to swelling from moisture in a way that a clutch
(fixed clamping) or belt (tension) application is not.

No matter. Clearly leather works in your situation.

Again, nicely done.

.

GNM109
07-01-2015, 01:28 PM
GNM109, nice work on that damper.

I perceive the damper (controlled friction) application to be
sensitive to swelling from moisture in a way that a clutch
(fixed clamping) or belt (tension) application is not.

No matter. Clearly leather works in your situation.

Again, nicely done.

.

Thanks for the kind words.

If the leather were to swell, a 1/4 turn on the knob would cure the issue. In any case, it's not been a problem. I could just as easily have used cork as mentioned.

You Canadians have more water than we do in California. In fact, I haven't seen much water here recently. LOL.

EddyCurr
07-01-2015, 03:01 PM
In fact, I haven't seen much water here recently.Many of us up here hope that changes. The prices we pay here for
lettuce, almond flour & any number of other items imported from CA
are tangible consequences arising from how life there is influenced by
the drought in the region and our interconnectedness.

While I am not sure how many others north of the 49th connect the
dots and consider the larger drought issues faced by folks in CA
represented by the produce price increases, I know I do.

Here's to rain ...

.

GNM109
07-01-2015, 05:11 PM
Many of us up here hope that changes. The prices we pay here for
lettuce, almond flour & any number of other items imported from CA
are tangible consequences arising from how life there is influenced by
the drought in the region and our interconnectedness.

While I am not sure how many others north of the 49th connect the
dots and consider the larger drought issues faced by folks in CA
represented by the produce price increases, I know I do.

Here's to rain ...

.

That's quite true. California is a significant grower of crops, some for US consumption and others internationally. I remember the torrential rains that we used to have some 30 years ago in Northern California. We certainly don't get much anymore. Hope for better times.

Daveb
07-01-2015, 08:13 PM
I used red fibreboard for a similar job, it's made by the same people who make felt, I believe it is compressed felt treated with acid. Tough stuff, cost a bloody fortune. Leather would probably work just as well.
Dave

Optics Curmudgeon
07-01-2015, 09:40 PM
I've used G-10 circuit board material for low speed clutches.

jmm03
07-02-2015, 03:38 PM
Try this place: http://www.allfrictions.com/. I dealt with them awhile ago to fab up a shoe type brake on a Bridgeport clone mill,very helpful and knowledgeable. Jim