View Full Version : OT - Thieves!!!

06-17-2004, 07:56 PM
My home in Columbus Ohio is in the suburbs, a nice area, good neighbors. I have a real picket fence around my backyard, the pickets were made from 1" barn siding and hung on 2 x 4s. They are hung on joist hangers and are "free floating". These sections are not light.

Last night between midnight and 7 this morning, somebody stole 4 sections of my back fence. The guy who lives behind me is a Marine who did a year in Afghanistan and he didn't hear anything. Plus he wanted to know how heavy these sections are, he had a heck of a time lifting one section out. The theives when thru his backyard to get them to the street in front of his house.

The police came out an took a report, the officer said thatI could never match the pickets with new wood.

O.K. why is this taken so lightly by the police. My property has been stolen, which without replacing the whole fence will never look right. I have driven around the neighborhood three times this afternoon, there is no sign of these sections of fence. This is too much for a couple of kids to do as prank with out a lot of help and a truck.


Dave Opincarne
06-17-2004, 08:15 PM
Sorry to hear about that Jerry. That seems like a bizar thing for the typical thief to take. I've lost some stuff out of my shop, the worst was a bike I had built up from the frame. Neither the insurance co or the bike shop they sent me to had much sympathy and the jerk who wrote up the estimate clearly said he didn't like the brand of components I used and gave me a lowball replacement cost. It sucks having stuff ripped off since no one values it as much as you. You asked what was up with the cops taking your loss so lightly. Don't take it personaly, consider what kind of crap the average cop sees on an average day. By comparison this was miniscule compared to the domestic violence call he just got off of. And he knows there's nothing he can really do for you. It'd be nice if they could at least appear a little sympathetic, but I supose they need to maintain some detached profesionalism or go nutz.

As for who, perhaps a miscreant woodworker, antique dealer or interior designer. Who else might want something like this?

Sorry and good luck,


06-17-2004, 08:29 PM
Picture frames..

Look at the boutiques for them.

Barn type wood goes for a premium. I have a similar fence put in with Oak that has greyed out in the last year, I have had two offers to purchase it for more then the fence cost.

BUT, what would Butch do without a fence to keep him safe from the outside world? vicea versa..

I hate crooks, I had a offer from a childhood friend to "wanted to borrow" the keys for the motorcycle shop when it was full of harleys.
He has not spoken more than two words to me since he showed his true colors. You never expect it, it is usually someone you know and never would have thought would do that.


06-17-2004, 08:46 PM
Ouch!! You touched a tender spot with me. Having some stuff stolen from me in the past, I put up an electrified fence around my pproperty, with double redundant feed lines. In addition I posted notices at the corner store reminding patrons to be on the lookout for a "slime-ball" in our midst...describing in detail what they stole from me. I knew this wouldn't help after the fact, but it did give me some degree of satisfaction. Of course this won't help you now. Electric fencing gives me a bit of peace of mind, knowing the crooks will have to pay a price next time.

06-17-2004, 09:09 PM
I was thinking about some tangle foot and a few trip wires. No booms thou, slightly danergous and flying perps may damage the neighbors siding.

This was too well done to be a prank. The Marine behind me is really upset somebody go thru his yard with out him hearing it, he is talking to the neighbors, I am talking to my neighbors in front of me and around me.


06-17-2004, 09:12 PM
I think a pet dog would be some darn good insurance.
Also, you ever think about a video camera?
B&W CCD camera's you can buy, use an IR illuminator, can see in the dark, or perhaps just leave some lights on out back, they wont steal it if they think theres too much risk to being seen.

06-17-2004, 09:18 PM
UGH! I had Three reuns of maple syurip tubing walk off the day after I got it up. Took two of us three days to set up and one @$*$&$#(*& with a 4wheeler a night to take down. Cop woulden't even go to the scene.

Found my car cleaned out in the garadge one morning got cell phone, radar detector, old zippo ready to be sent out for repair and a box of 9mm ammo. State troopers were uninterested till I got the cell phone bill and called the numbers that the @$#$^#&$ called that night. One he had hung up on repeatedly. A girl that had snubed him remembered him calling gave me his name "John Hancock". I told the troopers and the one who was supposed to be investigating the thing but wouldn't leave his desk said "JHON HANCOCK!!!!" Was trying to get month old fingerprints off my car 20 min later. When he talked to the girl he threatened her as an acomplice...accused her of being a prostitue.... and a junky. She shut up.

I could go on about people and the way they treat my land. (ever hear of "unowned land?") I wish I could put a fence around mine if it wasn't in three towns and two counties.

06-17-2004, 09:18 PM
My bet is that it is kids up to about 25 yr. old. After that age most people gain some idea of cost/benefit and think about honesty a little bit. High school kids are amazingly strong and stealthy when they actually have a plan. Stealing your fence and making some picture frames sounds like kid logic to me. You can match the wood left in your fence PITA but doable. Better figure on putting some screws in the fence though.

06-17-2004, 09:28 PM
This pickets were 100 year or older barn siding.

It could be kids, because a pro or a punk would have broken into the house. Doing that with me home is not a good idea.


06-17-2004, 09:34 PM
Whatever happen to kids soaping windows and over turning garbage cans?

The cost of replacement has made this grand theft and it seems that the police really don't care.


06-17-2004, 10:36 PM
The death toll in the last 24 hours is 9,not in Iraq,but in New Orleans!

The latest is a few weeks ago a shooting occured at a carwash,two men in broad daylight opened fire on some people with full auto AK'S and were caught on tape red handed(one person was killed and another seriously wounded)Okay cops go out and trackdown and arrest these clowns,they hual them into jail,judge sets bail and they are held over for grand jury,judge in charge sets them free because"he cannot clearly see their faces and there for they must go free for lack of evidence"(even though anyone watching the local news can make them out plain as day)well yesterday they killed two more people,so no your fence being stole isn't high on the priority list.

Theft is much worse these days along with other crimes becuase there is NO FEAR OF THE LAW OR PRISON!

Hard time has been done away with,anyone who shoots a thug commiting a crime gets crucified by the media and the law,juvi's get away with murder literaly and the current concept of incarceration is watching tv and playing basketball,and people wonder why its so bad.

The crime rate is excused away to poverty and poor education instead of holding the individual responsible.

Maybe we should go back in time a 100 years,prisons may not social clubs like they are now.

Excitable Boy
06-17-2004, 11:32 PM
I can't believe someone stole your fence! That's just near unbelievable. I guess the old saying is true about thieves stealing anything that wasn't nailed down. Sorry to hear of your loss and impending expenditure.


Pursue Excellence and the rest will follow.

06-17-2004, 11:37 PM
I agree with Bill Cosby, that we all should be held responsible for our actions and to learn respect for others.


06-18-2004, 03:48 AM
That sucks...I hate thieves. I never would have thought about having to secure a fence. I'm so damn lazy about securing my stuff... Makes me smirk when I see all those "CSI" shows on TV. But seriously, the tech at my job brought in a bunch of cheap cameras that supposedly have infra red capability they were around $20 and had standard connectors on them (RCA's IIRC). I wonder what a time lapse VCR goes for...or I guess a motion sensor activated VCR. Well, anyway, sorry for your loss.

06-18-2004, 07:06 AM
Friend of mine was robed by a drug addict woman and her husband. About 6 months after the theft, the police called her up to identify some jewlery that was taken, and as luck would have it, it was hers. The police called her because they picked up this couple and they fit the MO for the previous crimes.

I remember my friends having the same feeling about the police not being too conserned. I told them that the police see this every day, so it isn't unusual for them. They did stay on the case, and luckily they solved it. Some of the jewelry was returned, and insurance paid for the rest.

Have patience, maybe something good will happen. Good luck.


06-18-2004, 09:10 AM
Jf. Drive around any new housing developements in your area. I'm willing to bet thats where your fence is.Whoever took it, knew it was easy to take apart and was familiar with the neighborhood. I don't think it went far.

Paul Gauthier
06-18-2004, 10:22 AM
Kids looking for something to burn in a campfire. It is doubtful that those who stole it would install it at another place. That would be really stupid. And the chances are it was someone you know, or have met recently.

Paul G.

06-18-2004, 03:14 PM
The pickets were treated for terminte 17 years ago with a poison that is no longer allowed. The cross members are treated lumber, the whole thing is gets a spraying with Thompsons water seal every year. It may be liability time if somebody burns them.


06-19-2004, 09:18 AM
Jerry, with the way that the court systems work now days, you might be liable for the injury if the thieves burn the wood and become sick. I do jest, but when you hear about home owners that are sued for defending the house by shooting a guy that breaks in, and loosing, it makes you wonder.

I would add that high school has just let out around Columbus and them kids aint got anything to do. Most of them around where I live have folks that would pay for everything which means that they don’t have to work. Idle minds are the devils playground.

About a week ago the wife and I were getting set for bed when I thought that I heard a car door. I peeked under the window shade and saw a car with someone hanging out the passengers side window driving along the road and removing all of the 6 reflective stakes that I have (had) marking my back yard. I put them up to keep cars from cutting the corner too sharp and driving in the yard. Now there are large rocks.

Not much I can do, and at an expense of $7.00 for the stakes, I decided not to make a big deal or yell at them. They might decide to come back and "get me back" for yelling. So I let them go and called the cops. The wife was pissed. Needless to say it was a quiet night in bed. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//mad.gif

I did hear a radio story about Texas. It seems that the thieves down there are stealing trees and bushes from yards. Most likely going to another housing project. It is strange the things that people will take. They can have my reflective stakes but dont touch my paw-paw trees. Them things are going to bear fruit next year! Maybe.

[This message has been edited by rockrat (edited 06-19-2004).]

06-19-2004, 09:48 AM
The sections that they took were ones that can not be seen because some bushes block the porch light from that area of the yard. The lowest estimate that I got for replacing those sections was $1,700.00.
The police and the city folks say that I can not defend myself or my property with a "firearm" unless there is a real threat of death is clear. Of course they are not doing anything to protect me or my property, so why do we even have the police?
I don't want to hear the excuse of what happen without them. There are enough veterans and active duty military on my street to that could protect a small military base. WEe do have a block watch, but they stop walking the streets at 11:00.


Dave Opincarne
06-19-2004, 01:08 PM
Yea, getting ripped off sucks, but you sound like your willing to kill some kids over some wood. Sorry, I don't get it.

06-19-2004, 08:04 PM
"The police and the city folks say that I can not defend myself or my property with a "firearm" unless there is a real threat of death is clear. Of course they are not doing anything to protect me or my property, so why do we even have the police?"

There have actually been several cases where people have sued the police or 911 operators or other emergency workers for failing to protect them and every time the plaintiff has lost. Most courts are of the opinion that, while it is their profession to prevent crime/get you an ambulance/put out your burning house, it is not their legal responsibility. If it were, they would be liable everytime someone died, got hurt, or what have you. One of the more high profile examples of this involved a family that was attacked and their young daughters were kidnapped. The 911 operator did not dispatch units to the scene and did not put an APB out on the vehicle. Both girls were raped and murdered.

06-19-2004, 09:34 PM
The wood is not the issue it's the disrespect for other people's property.

A far the police go, if I gave the same level of service to customers as the police have to me and my case, I would loose all my customers.

The American society has accepted a certain level of lawlessness as the "norm" which is very wrong. We are suppose to be responsible for our actions or has that gone by the wayside?


06-19-2004, 09:40 PM
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Dave Opincarne:
Yea, getting ripped off sucks, but you sound like your willing to kill some kids over some wood. Sorry, I don't get it. </font>

Sorry Dave that don't cut it,the problem exists because there are no limits,used to those kids would get in deep and serious trouble,not anymore.
They can come back with impunity,the police can do nothing,their parents can do nothing,what should we do? Roll over and let them take everything?What happens when you have nothing left to take?What are they going to get next?A car,money a wife or duaghter?I'm sorry,but I do not subscribe to the victim mindset,people are sick and tired of the give up and run mentality,we have been taught to surrender our property to common thugs,what a worthless and stupid idea.
Recently we had a man shoot a kid(17)who he caught breaking into his car,this was not the first time he had been robbed,his insurance had dropped him,he had lost work and on top of that the cops did absolutely nothing,so what should he have done,let the thieving continue?He worked for his property,he worked for the money to insure and buy his car,he has a right not to have his property damaged and stolen,so where does it end.

If I catch someone in the act,I won't shoot them unless my life is in danger,but I will hose them down with pepper spray(I get the big cans,gives them something to remember).

Dave Opincarne
06-19-2004, 10:46 PM
Well you said it yourself, you won't shoot unless your life is in danger. I've been ripped off like everyone else, and I didn't like it any better. I certainly don't want to see them get away with it either. But I'm not willing to take a life (especialy a kids) over some stuff. That just seems out of all proportion.

06-19-2004, 11:21 PM
If I report this to my insurance, my premiums go up. So soem people rip me off and police don't do anything, and then if I use my insurance, I get ripped off again.

As it was mentioned, why get so upset over some wood, well how about if somebody breaks in take a sledge hammer to somebodies mill or lathe, they are just bunches of metal.


Dave Opincarne
06-20-2004, 12:20 AM
When compared to a human life, yea they're just bunches of metal. Or were you just thinking of a flesh wound? How bout a 17 year old spending his life in a wheelchair, that seems like a just punishment for a stupid prank.

OK, the justice system sucks, I haven't heard anybody say it's working. But JEEZ, you're talking about KILLING someone for taking your fence.


06-20-2004, 01:03 AM
When you get it fixed put in an electric fence. You can also run a wire through it to cause a siren to blair if it happens again (and it likely will!)

I've done security systems for over 10 years and crooks get bold when they are successful. Be ready for them. Nothing is more satisfying that catching a crook. Oh yea and call everyone you know and ask all the gas stations and places like that if they saw any trucks with material like that on it. More than once this has paid off for me.


[This message has been edited by SJorgensen (edited 06-20-2004).]

06-20-2004, 08:50 AM
Like Spence just said,they get bolder and bolder,what next load it up on a trailer for them?We have the problems today,because yesterday somebody said"oh its probibly just some kids having fun"now the kids are having fun with AK-47'S,are you going to play?

This is another example of out of control "no consequences" lifestyle that many are living,thats why these things escalate into people like you and me being murdered for a 20 dollar bill.For society to function there must be limits.I hope no one ever has to shoot anybody,but the last line of defense against this sort of thing becoming frequent is just that.

06-20-2004, 09:03 AM
Dave, If I may, I was wondering where you read that anyone in the thread was goind to kill the thieves for the wood? Jerry only mentioned what was told to him by the police. My comment was noting a court case where a fella was sued by the robbers family for breaking into a house with a baseball bat and not leaving when the owner asked him to leave while carrying a gun. The robber lost the first round the family of the robber wone the second.

I dont think that anyone here wants to be put into the situation where that decision has to be made. But where do you draw the line at what happens to a thief? Personally I have no remorse for a thief. I dont know if the person breaking into my house is wanting only to play a prank, take my posessions, or my wife. Now days, some theives kill anyone in the house then take what they want. Less issues for them at that moment. And we all know thieves are provayers of the moment, they dont think too far into the future.

[This message has been edited by rockrat (edited 06-20-2004).]

06-20-2004, 10:23 AM
I don't want to kill or injury one, but when you yell halt, the criminals just keep going, when you put a bullet in the ground near them they stop.

The problem is, these days, the criminals seem to have guns, so trying to stop them by yelling may get me injured.

The police aren't doing anything, the crooks know that.

The problem is that we don't seem to have certain values or morals or even have a basic understanding of what is right and what is wrong. But this does not excuse anyone from committing a crime.

Why should we be held in fear, when we haven't done anything wrong? Why can't we have a safe home, we paid for them? Why can't parents control their kids?

Dave Opincarne
06-20-2004, 11:03 AM
Rockrat - Jerry lamented "The police and the city folks say that I can not defend myself or my PROPERTY with a "firearm" unless there is a real threat of death is clear." The emphasis is mine. WS uses an example of a man shooting a car thief as justifiable. In another recent thread on theives the concensus seemed to be man traps should be allowed.

Keep in mind I don't have a problem with defending yourself in your house, i.e. you wake up and someone is in your house (just hope it's not your teenager breaking curfew). But there's a difference between that and hearing a noise out in the shop or back yard, grabing a gun, and seeking out a confrontation.

Let's say that I'm on a jury for someone who's shot a man who was stealing from him. If the theif was in the house and it could not be shown he was not a threat (leaving), or if the homeowner was playing hero and hold the theif at gunpoint for the police and a strugle ensued resulting in the theifs death I'd certainly vote for aquital (sp?) BUT if it's shown the homeowner was not in danger, went out into their yard, outbuilding, street, or chased the theif down and shot them then yes, I'd vote to find them guilty of murder.

Jerry - Again, I'm sorry for your loss, I've been there so I do know how it feels. But please take a moment to consider this: It sounds like you have a nice house in a nice neighborhood with nice people around you. If having some wood, even nice expensive hard to replace wood, stolen is the most difficult thing you have to deal with then perhaps you should consider taking a moment and offer a prayer of thanks. All in all it sounds like you have a nice life, enjoy it.


06-20-2004, 11:14 AM
My lil 65lb pup can make it across the 120' yard in about 3.1 seconds(timed him). He can jump straight up 4 feet, and he is just 8 months old. He is a companion and a friend. I keep teasing about teaching him how to run the lathe. He is almost that intelligent. He is very protective of my yard and shop. You should see him turn on the faucet in the back yard and get a drink, he can't turn it off yet. And probably don't understand why it should be turned off. He likes to drink beer with me and barks when I open one.
I get concerned seeing him growling and jumping straight into the air. Possibly he takes after me?

If he ever eats up a burglar I will be so sued. Or maybe just put in a septic tanks

One contractor I know put a person under each septic tank he put in (he had a side job). It was pretty common knowledge, but they weren't sure enought to go through the trouble to dig up peoples yards after all it was just a rumor, and the Donut shop was open. Someday he might go away. They sure got Byron Delay Beckwith off Signal mountain (local). (Meggar Evers 60's murder) He is old, sick and probably dead by now. It only took them about 45 years to catch up. 45 years is a long time. He bragged about it at Klan rallies (the fool got himself caught)

People should consider that as they climb a fence or steal something from a persons home. But they don't think ahead, they are probably too stupid to think much at all. They just want something for nothing.

Ohh yeah, the cops prosecute just like you killed a real human being. Poor criminal, and nasty vicious sorry victim that fights back. I saw who got questioned after I collared a arsonist and laid him in the driveway for the police. It wasn't him.

Okay, I am on the road to hell for having thoughts like that. As long as they are just thoughts no laws have been broken. And if it is not reported or seen, nothing ever happened. Unless you brag at Klan rallies.

Visit North Georgia, home of the Famous Marsh Creamatory, and my home. Victims have rights too. Someone should speak up for all the kinfolk that the possums chewed on. Last I heard, he had money hid and was living outside the jail. Several good old Georgia boys had deer rifles in thier trucks in that area.

Aren't you lucky, you just lost some fence. Could have been your life/liberty for catching them and what ensued. You'd have to sell everything to prove your innocence.

Should you suffer the slings and arrows of misfortune without speaking up, just lay down and give up? No, I will not go silently into the night.
Figure out who it is? get a halloween mask and a ball bat and don't get caught.

The last paragraph is all that matters, the rest is just rambling.. I type too damn fast..

Happy fathers day.


Paul Gauthier
06-20-2004, 11:41 AM
Dave O.
If I ever shoot some lowlife bag of **** who is intent on taking what is mine, what I have worked hard to optain, or who is intent on causing harm or worse to a member of my family or my neighbors. I hope that you are not chosen to serve on my jury. I believe a thief or murderer, kidnapper, rapist or any other miscreant should be brought to justice in the most expediant manner available. If that means shooting him at the time of the crime, then do so instantly. Lawlessness is at an all time high, why??? because our system of justice is breaking down. Killers and rapists are being set free from incarceration in ever increasing numbers, only to kill or rape again. My own state is a sad example of this, I wish I could remember his name but he was a child molester, was caught and jailed only to be released on parole because the parole board thought he was rehabilitated, over the objections of everone else involed. This rehabilitated member of our society ended up in Montana where he not only molested young boys again, he killed them and fed them to his neighbors. I my opinion the parole board should share his sentence, should he be executed, then so should they. No law abiding member of society should face liability of any kind for ridding the world of another lowlife.
Rant over.

Paul G.

L Webb
06-20-2004, 12:27 PM
I know that many people have different feelings about the police.
I feel their job is to enforce the laws. I don't expect them to protect me from all the bad guys.
That is my job. I refuse to be a victim and also refuse to stand by and watch somebody else become a victim.
I have had people tell me I am crazy to get involved in a situation that doesn't directly involve me. I tell them they are wrong. If it occurs near me in my country, it involves me.

I was asked to become a police officer by several different cities. I refused the offers. I do not need to see the crap they see and put up with on a daily basis.

I have a close friend who is retiring next week after 30 years as a police officer in our city. He doesn't have to retire yet but he is tired of the BS that interferes with him doing his job.

I think our justice system is severely out of whack. Anytime a criminal's rights trump the victim's rights, somethings wrong.
I am really pissed that my tax dollars are used to feed, clothe and house people like Charlie Manson, Richard Ramirez(The Night Stalker), and just about anybody else who has willingly taken another persons life just for grins or the fun of it.

I could go on and on, but that is enough for now.


Dave Opincarne
06-20-2004, 01:07 PM
Well Paul if you can't see the distinction between theft and murder I hope you never see me jaywalking.

06-20-2004, 01:53 PM
Guys, settle down. I want the police to do more than take a report, but they aren't. During the highway serial shooter situation, the police used all of their resources and got zip. The guys father turned him in. So make the rewards more apealing instead of spending $3 million on crime lab work and using hi tech. Being turned in by a person who knows the perp is the norm, not the high tech police work.

I too have friends who are police officers, and all three of them would love to catch this person. Then again all three of them say that lawsuits are becoming a joke, you tell a person to shut up or you will have to write them a ticket for speeding can get you written up and maybe sued.

We all say if they broke in our homes we would do this or that. Many times it doesn't work that way. Most times it's better to let them leave than risk shooting at some one in the dark and maybe have your bullet ending up in the neighbors house or worse go thru one of your walls and hitting your child.

I have served on juries, and told the jury foreman on the last jury that I think the person should be taken out and hanged for hurting a child, this guy beat his 8 year nearly to death. I was told that this was not allowed by the law and was not part of the case. The person was found guilty and got 8 years for messing up a child forever.

When the courts order restitution, don't hold your breath, you will never see it and the person will not get more jail time for failure to pay the court order debt.

In the 1930s if you robbed a bank you got 25 years, in the 1950s if you killed some one in cold blood, you got the electric chair. Today, first degree murderers can be out in under ten years. That system is broken.

The real issue is what we teach our children, if you can get away with it, then it must be o.k. If your a juvenile, it doesn't really count, because your record is cleaned when you turn 18 or 19.

What really pisses me off is that we allow this to happen and no one really tries to do anything about it. Do I to use the perimeter protection and guard methods I learned in Vietnam, trip wires, tangle foot and worse?

Maybe I will call the police tomorrow and ask what they are doing, if they say they aren't doing anything other than taking a report for the insurance company, then I will just say they not doing your job and the department is fired. I so far have pieced together the where, how and whats to this case. That was 20 minutes of my time.
But if I am not that important to the police, maybe the police should change their attitudes, because they are no longer important to me.


Dave Opincarne
06-20-2004, 02:02 PM
Jerry - There's nothing you just said that I can disagree with, except for horse whipping before hanging. In raising my daughter I'm emphasising cause and effect ie consiquenses rather than arbitrary rules.

06-20-2004, 06:31 PM
I look at it this way,there are 48,000 people in my county and at any one time there are no more than 18 police and deputies on patrol,they can't be everywhere at once.

I have a right under the constitution to defend my property and life,its called the second amendment,but what has happened?People have this perverted idea that if the outlaw guns criminals will obey the law and not use guns,not ata all the case.

I had to luagh yesterday,the New Orleans PD had their annual gun buy back,$50.00 a pop,so as usual the local hoods sent their kids and old ladies in to sell the junk that was lying around to fetch more money to buy some new ones,either that or crack.The pictures on TV of people bring in their "guns"consisted of a couple of single shot shot guns,one was missing the barrel,the other had no trigger and a ouple of automatic pistols that were missing grips and recievers,tax payer money down the drain.

Lately though people have been defending themselves and property,in effect shooting back,the rates for armed robbery and smash and grab have fallen sharply,the trash has gone back to shooting at each other over their crack bills,seems robbery is dangerous becuase of lead posioning.

Also interesting with the recent serial killers we have had women are the number one customers for guns and ammo,the state said the otherday that the number of women signing up for gun safty classes has gone up 600% in the past year,their looking at nearly 1800 grads this year alone if the rate continues.

Two of my favorite sayings are as follows
"A liberal is just an NRA member that hasn't been mugged yet"

and "it is better to be tried by twelve then carried by six"

[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 06-20-2004).]

06-20-2004, 06:43 PM
My sister lives in Texas. She has a rotweiler and a Smith and Wesson 45. No problems at all.

06-20-2004, 11:07 PM
I carry a fully tuned Browning Hi Power, that has been magna ported.I have my state permit for CCW. We can talk about my Pre Ban AR-15 HBAR NM some other day.

The problem is that kids can have guns too, they don't hesitate when they are going to kill some one. They pull the trigger before they realize that a bullet is coming they're way also.


06-21-2004, 08:42 AM
Most kids, criminals get thier guns by stealing them from honest folks.

Just because you have a gun don't make you safe, when you need a gun, you need it in your hand. Being locked away won't help a bit. Otherwise you don't need a gun at all, unless you are hunting. During the time it takes to retrieve one from a safe a whole household can be murdered by home invasion.

Owning a gun does not make you a Non-victim. Laws concerning the care and securing of weapons have been passed in effect denying the owner the use of such. A person needs the guns not immediately in his possesion locked in a safe. The others should be on his hip or in his hand.
The more you handle any weapon the more it becomes second nature to use it. It becomes a extension of your self. From Katas and swords to favorite pistols/rifles.
I have my favorites, I also have my sellers that I traded for. They like some of the pretty women in my life are/were just temporary.