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Dave C
08-21-2015, 03:55 PM
A while back, I started a thread called: "Baffled by metric threads" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/67403-Baffled-by-metric-threads wherein I admitted my lack of knowledge of the subject, and the need for enlightenment. For the most part, the result was a 22 page can of worms. A few responders offered good advice, and a few not so much. Mostly it became a pissing contest over the use of metric vs. imperial measurement. In the end, I learned much about metrics, my new to me lathe, and to be careful of what I post on this forum. I also learned that as with most anything, there are more ways than one to skin a cat.
If you have an interest in an easier method of single pointing threads, check out this You Tube video by Tom Lipton of OX Tools: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HXt4TWa382Q
I watched it a couple of times, then following Tom's instructions, cut a perfect M40 x 1.5 thread on the first attempt.

Forrest Addy
08-21-2015, 04:57 PM
I saw that video some time ago and it tickled my memory without triggering anything definite. This time I remembered: old Earl Richardson on one of the 24" Axelsons on the west bay aisle cutting all those diametral pitch worms for the Tartar missile elevators. He used the same trick demonstrated by Tom Lipton and I remember Earl telling me someday this method of keeping the index in time by watching the thread dial when the half-nut's open would come in handy so don't forget it.

Well I did forget it and sorry, Earl, your lesson failed to stick. All these many years I've been telling horror stories of never opening the half-nut on irrational pitches. Dave, I failed to pass on Earl Richardson's trick back in my earlier posts and I apologize.

But otherwise in all other stuff I'm infallible. Honest - this time.

Tom, great video. Cutting Metric threads and other oddball leads from Imperial lead screws is always a nail biter. You memorably presented a real jewel of a threading trick.

PStechPaul
08-21-2015, 05:18 PM
I watched the video and left this comment:


This is a good "trick". Thanks. I have not done much threading, just a 3/4"-8 LH SQ thread on some chuck screws, and some 1/4"-20 threads where I turned the tool upside down and used reverse. I kept the half-nut engaged for the 8 TPI because it was too hard to hit the dial tick with a 16 TPI leadscrew and a little 64 tooth thread dial on my little HF 9x20.

I have not chased any metric threads, but this looks like a good way to do it. It may not work as well for LH threads or for cutting in reverse with an upside-down tool, however. For that you would leave the half-nut engaged as you traverse the carriage and tool to the relief at the shoulder, possibly turning the spindle by hand or with a variable speed drive that will stop soon enough, then advance the compound and cross-slide for the next cut, and turn it on in reverse for cutting.

Lew Hartswick
08-21-2015, 05:24 PM
Now THAT is a very handy trick. I've been threading for simply ages (not very many metric ones) and that has never occurred to me. Next time I need metric I'll give it a try.
Thanks.
...lew...

Yondering
08-21-2015, 06:29 PM
That is a neat trick. Of course, it probably is a little more difficult for coarse pitches or if your lathe doesn't stop very quickly.

That guy does like to talk though! 15 minute video for a 30 second explanation.

firbikrhd1
08-21-2015, 08:01 PM
Excellent, thanks for that!

quadrod
08-21-2015, 08:43 PM
Ok Im lost, the video looks great but does not state what the gear box setting is. I have SB13 with quick change gear box, how do I set the feed rate to cut metric threads?

TGTool
08-21-2015, 09:33 PM
Ok Im lost, the video looks great but does not state what the gear box setting is. I have SB13 with quick change gear box, how do I set the feed rate to cut metric threads?

You'll have to look at the SB documents to find out how to set up your lathe. It will no doubt be different than the one in the video. He wasn't focusing on the setup for metric threads so much as addressing the special issue of not releasing the half nuts when you've set up gearing for a non-standard ratio.

firbikrhd1
08-21-2015, 10:22 PM
Ok Im lost, the video looks great but does not state what the gear box setting is. I have SB13 with quick change gear box, how do I set the feed rate to cut metric threads?

I offer the following with no intention of insulting your intelligence. It seems that perhaps there is something you don't understand about metric threading.

Aside from setting the gear ratios so the lead screw turns at a rate proportional to the spindle to produce a particular metric thread pitch there is the issue of the threading dial not properly telling you when to engage the half nuts. The threading dial only works for Imperial threads and British Standard threads or any odd thread that is measured in threads per INCH.
Therefore other methods must be adopted in order to be able to release the half nuts, or you must leave them engaged at all times and reverse the spindle allowing the carriage to retrace it's path at exactly the same rate, and position, on the lead screw as it moved while cutting the thread. This makes it difficult to thread to a shoulder or particular stopping point. Failure to do so will result in a mismatch that destroys the job. The video explains an excellent alternative to leaving the half nuts engaged ALL THE TIME while allowing them to re-enter the lead screw in the exact same position it was originally in when cutting began.
There is another method that requires a carriage stop and some other visual aids, all of which I cannot remember at the moment. In my few past experiences of metric threading I've used the reverse spindle method, stopped early and hand rotated to the shoulder, a slow pain. The method shown is simple, easy to remember, allows threading to a shoulder at speed and no additional equipment is necessary. In reality it's using the reverse the spindle method along with the thread dial to position the carriage and lead screw in the exact same position as the operation began.
I hope this helps your understanding.

quadrod
08-21-2015, 10:45 PM
I understood the video just fine. It just means I still need metric transposing gear set.

Paul Alciatore
08-22-2015, 12:31 AM
Excellent tip. Thanks for posting it.

And yes, you do still need metric transposing gears. No way out of that.

firbikrhd1
08-22-2015, 10:00 AM
I understood the video just fine. It just means I still need metric transposing gear set.

Apparently I misunderstood your first post. Apologies.

Dave C
08-22-2015, 01:10 PM
There is a link at the end of the video that explains the metric threading process in detail. It is rather long, but covers everything you ever needed to know about cutting threads on a lathe. If you are new to metric threading as I am, and just want a text version of what you saw in Tom's video, Go here: http://conradhoffman.com/metricthreading.htm and scroll down to: "You Have to Keep the Half Nuts Engaged for Metric Threading" - Not! If you are open to learning the mechanics of threading on a lathe, read the whole thing. IMHO It's a good read and will be worth your time.

becksmachine
08-22-2015, 11:08 PM
Hi Dave C,

I was going to post this in your previous thread, but as you say, it got a little OT.

Anyhow this is something that I have posted about before. This little gem can take some of the pain out of doing metric threads with an inch leadscrew.

This previous thread covers a lot of the bases.

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/42595-Metric-Threads-with-English-Lead-Screw/page4?highlight=ainjest+becksmachine

Dave

thaiguzzi
08-23-2015, 04:20 AM
I offer the following with no intention of insulting your intelligence. It seems that perhaps there is something you don't understand about metric threading.

Aside from setting the gear ratios so the lead screw turns at a rate proportional to the spindle to produce a particular metric thread pitch there is the issue of the threading dial not properly telling you when to engage the half nuts. The threading dial only works for Imperial threads and British Standard threads or any odd thread that is measured in threads per INCH.
Therefore other methods must be adopted in order to be able to release the half nuts, or you must leave them engaged at all times and reverse the spindle allowing the carriage to retrace it's path at exactly the same rate, and position, on the lead screw as it moved while cutting the thread. This makes it difficult to thread to a shoulder or particular stopping point. Failure to do so will result in a mismatch that destroys the job. The video explains an excellent alternative to leaving the half nuts engaged ALL THE TIME while allowing them to re-enter the lead screw in the exact same position it was originally in when cutting began.
There is another method that requires a carriage stop and some other visual aids, all of which I cannot remember at the moment. In my few past experiences of metric threading I've used the reverse spindle method, stopped early and hand rotated to the shoulder, a slow pain. The method shown is simple, easy to remember, allows threading to a shoulder at speed and no additional equipment is necessary. In reality it's using the reverse the spindle method along with the thread dial to position the carriage and lead screw in the exact same position as the operation began.
I hope this helps your understanding.

+1.
I don't mind leaving the half-nuts engaged for metric threads, but as above, it is a pain coming up to a shoulder without being able to stop suddenly without a brake, and this method is great because of exactly that.

Alistair Hosie
08-23-2015, 02:45 PM
I have absolutely no problems with my lathe ! never have never will. Not that I am a clever clogs. It is just because I bought a metric lathe. To be serious ages ago I read on how to make imperial threads on a metric lathe but apart from needing to buy a few gears. I forget how to do it still when needed I will look it up again. How's that for being lazy couldn't care less attitude? L O L Getting old and forgetful Alistair

John Stevenson
08-23-2015, 03:02 PM
Same thick applies though Alistair when doing imperial on your metric lathe.

Also doing metric on a metric lathe isn't as cut and dried as many think, certainly not as easy as imperial on imperial lathe.

Doing metric on a metric lathe requires you to have the correct follower gear fitted depending on what pitch it is. Some have as many as 3 different gears and the dial in may cases has to be changes again to relect the pitch so using this trick doing metric on a metric lathe means you only need the one gear and dial.

In fact if you use this method all the while is easy to cut any pitch on any lathe, period.

The Artful Bodger
08-23-2015, 04:46 PM
There is another way although it has little to recommend it.

Stop the spindle with the half nuts still engaged then wind the carriage back exactly 15 inches and re-engage the half nuts before restarting the spindle.

John Stevenson
08-23-2015, 06:14 PM
That's the hard bit though, stopping a big lathe at an exact point.

The Artful Bodger
08-23-2015, 07:29 PM
The stopping point is not so important as moving the carriage back 15 inches from where it stopped.

John Stevenson
08-23-2015, 07:34 PM
You have a big lathe, 7 to 10 HP motor, large 12"+ chuck and you are running up to a shoulder with only a 1/8" runout groove.
Stopping in time would be important to me

The Artful Bodger
08-23-2015, 08:31 PM
John, I am not pretending that the 15" method is worth anything except something to bear in mind as an aid to understanding just what is required.

Now that big lathe of yours does it have a spindle brake?

Of course there is yet another way (I think this is right) involving a lead screw revolution counter. The spindle does not stop and is not reversed. For a metric leadscrew we would need a counter that would count to 127 and repeat and for an imperial lead screw a counter to count to 120 and repeat. Use it like this....Set a carriage stop or marker at the starting position. Start the spindle and engage the half nuts at the same time resetting the counter. Cut one pass and retract the half nuts then wind the carriage back to the start point and wait to re-engage the half nuts when your counter recycles. Depending on the thread pitch and how long it is you may have to wait a while but on the other hand there will be plenty of time to advance the cut.

I am not recommending any one system over another but show there are several ways to get the hide off this particular kitty cat!

Forrest Addy
08-24-2015, 05:17 AM
You have a big lathe, 7 to 10 HP motor, large 12"+ chuck and you are running up to a shoulder with only a 1/8" runout groove.
Stopping in time would be important to me

Try this:

1 Set an indicator stop on the bed ways to register carriage travel at the thread relief,

2 Set it so zero is a bit less than a full rotation,

3 Make a few dry runs to zero to calibrate your neuro-muscular loop,

And you can thread to a narrow relief stopping almost right on the thousandth - and it works better at a couple hundred RPM than dead slow. Your reflexes came from your tree-dwelling ancestors when dinner was an important daily event easily frustrated by failure to match the swing of the club to the head of the speedy dinner item.

Try it, but practice it first (no tool) as a dry-run training exercise. Increase the spindle RPM by increments until you simply aren't quick enough. You will be surprised at your eye-hand coordination when it comes to analog lever flipping. Your eye tracks the sweep of the pointer as it crosses zero triggering the instant muscle twitch that works the half-nut making the spirit of your 2500th great grandpa proud.

John Stevenson
08-24-2015, 08:26 AM
Can't fault what you are saying Forrest but Mr Artful was advising throwing the lathe into stop with half nuts still engaged


Stop the spindle with the half nuts still engaged then wind the carriage back exactly 15 inches and re-engage the half nuts before restarting the spindle.

The point I was making was whilst as you say if the haft nuts are linked to the sphincter mustle it's perfectly possible but just throwing a big lathe into revere or just a stop isn't easy given the mass of the rotating parts.

The method in the initial video is very interesting and once distilled down can work with any thread on any lathe / leadscrew combination.
In fact if you adopted this method from day 1 you would have no problems threading for life.

The Artful Bodger
08-24-2015, 04:27 PM
Something to consider especially for the typical home shop machinist is if your threading process involves a lot of stopping and reversing our Chinese single phase motors we should have a supply of spare start and run capacitors on hand. Of course a 3 phase motor and VFD could be fitted but for me that would cost about half the price of a complete new lathe.

Just to recap, winding the carriage back 15" method requires the lathe to be brought to a halt with the half nuts engaged but the turns counter method does not require the spindle to be stopped and the half nuts can be disengaged at any time.

Every method has its downside and the only one I can see for the feed screw turns counter and the 15" methods is the waiting around time for the cycle to repeat. Maybe I should rig up a turns counter and report back!

mklotz
08-24-2015, 04:58 PM
Every method has its downside and the only one I can see for the feed screw turns counter and the 15" methods is the waiting around time for the cycle to repeat. Maybe I should rig up a turns counter and report back!

Why can't you move the carriage only 7.5"

7.5" = 190.5 mm = 127 * 1.5 mm

which is an integral multiple of the 1.5 mm screw pitch?

The Artful Bodger
08-24-2015, 05:30 PM
Thank you Marv I am pleased you stepped in. I had a suspicion there would be lesser intervals possible but my mathematical skills did not bring any to the fore.

7.5" for a 1.5mm lead screw but how would that work for a 3mm pitch? I am assuming that 15" will be valid for all pitches of lead screw and all pitches of thread being cut. Maybe I am wrong and 127 (or 120) turns of the lead screw is the real common factor?

I am tending to favour the turns count over the distance moved method as I can see the distance moved (15" or 7.5") will often bring conflicts with the tailstock. The turns count method also avoids having to stop the spindle. I really need to make a test rig to try this!

mklotz
08-24-2015, 05:42 PM
There is a program on my page (STICK) which will work out the length needed for any combination of pitches and leadscrews. Basically, one wants to find the shortest length that is an integer multiple of both the pitch being turned and the pitch of the lathe's leadscrew.

The program will also make the calculation for turning Inferial pitches on a lathe with a metric leadscrew.

The Artful Bodger
08-24-2015, 07:23 PM
Thanks Marv, I will take a look at your site.

oldtiffie
08-26-2015, 07:12 AM
And what if you bump into the tail-stock before you reach the 15" position?

You can do very well with a handle in the rear end of the head-stock spindle - the more so with smaller threads. Just disengage the motor drive/belts.

John Stevenson
08-26-2015, 07:18 AM
Even better, just follow what's in the video in the OP.
No measurements, no computer programs, no 10,000 Tiffiepedia links.

Go away and try it then come back and say why it won't work.

[ That should get rid of a few of the welded to an armchair contestants ]

wierdscience
08-26-2015, 09:29 AM
Friends don't let friends single point metric threads ;)

Richard P Wilson
08-26-2015, 10:34 AM
Even better, just follow what's in the video in the OP.
No measurements, no computer programs, no 10,000 Tiffiepedia links.

Go away and try it then come back and say why it won't work.

[ That should get rid of a few of the welded to an armchair contestants ]

John
I can think of no reason at all why that method won't work, although I haven't had any problems with whipping the tool back as it gets into the groove, with the right hand while the left hand hits the stop button then reversing. Admittedly my lathes only a 5 1/2" (11" in US speak) so it stops pretty quickly even though it doesn't have a brake fitted. I'm doing things the opposite way though, cutting imperial on a metric lathe, but can't see theres any difference.
Trying to avoid any comments about how important it is to practice withdrawing the tool quickly at the critical moment---.

I did come across an article written about 1900, on how to cut odd threads (that dreadful 11 1/2 TPI our friends use) without having to stop or reverse, this being on lineshaft belt drive machines without even a thread dial. Probably too primitive for anyone to even consider these days.

My grandfather, who served his apprenticeship while Victoria was still Queen, used to mark the changewheels with chalk before starting, and only drop the half nuts in when all the chalk marks lined up again. No covers over the gears in his day!

The Artful Bodger
08-26-2015, 04:37 PM
I have an old book on 'workshop practice' which shows how to cut non-standard threads by offsetting the tail stock, turning between centres and using the taper attachment.

Mike Nash
08-26-2015, 05:14 PM
I have an old book on 'workshop practice' which shows how to cut non-standard threads by offsetting the tail stock, turning between centres and using the taper attachment.

I can see why you would only find that in an "old" book, like back when 8th grade math was hardcore yet practical, i.e. well beyond what we have today (or so they say.)

I can see how it would work, but I bet trying to get that 29.5 degrees tweaked to match the necessary tail stock offset might be fun. Thankfully, I don't have a taper attachment.

Paul Alciatore
08-26-2015, 10:12 PM
STICK does not seem to run under Windows 7.

Marv, could you explain how this program finds the sync distance.




There is a program on my page (STICK) which will work out the length needed for any combination of pitches and leadscrews. Basically, one wants to find the shortest length that is an integer multiple of both the pitch being turned and the pitch of the lathe's leadscrew.

The program will also make the calculation for turning Inferial pitches on a lathe with a metric leadscrew.

oldtiffie
08-27-2015, 02:34 AM
It is a DOS utility to be "RUN" under the Windows "run" which sort of emulates DOS.

RichR
08-27-2015, 10:33 AM
STICK does not seem to run under Windows 7.
The site does mention you may need to install Dosbox to run it and the other utilities listed there.

mklotz
08-27-2015, 10:50 AM
The site does mention you may need to install Dosbox to run it and the other utilities listed there.

Thanks for pointing that out, Rich. I never cease to marvel how many people never read the Introduction on the page and then plague me with questions that are answered there.

RichR
08-27-2015, 11:32 AM
Thanks for pointing that out, Rich. I never cease to marvel how many people never read the Introduction on the page and then plague me with questions that are answered there.

I suppose you could highlight the Dosbox section in red to lead people to it, but you can't make them read.:rolleyes:

Dave C
08-27-2015, 11:44 AM
I spent half an afternoon trying to get Dosbox to run on my 64 bit Win 7 laptop. Finally gave up and uninstalled it.

mklotz
08-27-2015, 12:00 PM
I suppose you could highlight the Dosbox section in red to lead people to it, but you can't make them read.:rolleyes:

I'm not selling anything (everything on my site is free for the taking) so I really don't care if they're too lazy to read the material presented. I get one or two emails a week asking why the programs won't run on newer systems. I long ago gave up answering them.

rythmnbls
08-27-2015, 12:27 PM
Stick runs like a champ on the 0.74 dosbox for linux, thanks for your work Marv.

Steve.

small.planes
08-27-2015, 03:56 PM
My CVA has a magic lever on the headstock - single tooth dog clutch.
I nearly always leave the half nuts engaged and throw the leadscrew out of gear. Works on metric and imperial, and feeds the carriage back without stopping the lathe.

Dave

Richard P Wilson
08-27-2015, 04:20 PM
I have an old book on 'workshop practice' which shows how to cut non-standard threads by offsetting the tail stock, turning between centres and using the taper attachment.

Sorry, don't understand how that works.

John Stevenson
08-27-2015, 04:32 PM
Sorry, don't understand how that works.

He forgot to mention the Mason's handshake....................... :p

mklotz
08-27-2015, 06:32 PM
I should point out that, if you're unhappy with my C programs written to run under DOS, you're welcome to port them to your language and platform of choice. All of the programs written by me, which is most of them, have the source code included in the downloadable zip file so you can easily see the relevant mathematics.

I wrote them to solve machining problems I encountered and decided to pass them along gratis to others who might find them useful. I've moved along to other things now and so have no interest in supporting them as would be expected if I charged for them.

A number (~6) of people have sought permission to port them and set up a (free) site where the rewritten programs could be downloaded. I've always granted permission and encouraged their efforts but, to date, not a single one has followed through on his proposal.

PStechPaul
08-27-2015, 08:27 PM
It might be better to use JavaScript so that the applications can be run using a browser. The HTML with the script can be downloaded to a local file so it can be used when internet access is not available. Thanks for making these utilities open source.

Spin Doctor
08-27-2015, 09:44 PM
My CVA has a magic lever on the headstock - single tooth dog clutch.
I nearly always leave the half nuts engaged and throw the leadscrew out of gear. Works on metric and imperial, and feeds the carriage back without stopping the lathe.

Dave

True, but only if you have a Reversing Single Tooth Dog Clutch. Between the recent articles in HSM and Marvin Cleve's book on Screwcutting In The Lathe such a device should be on the TO DO List of anyone with a home shop

oldtiffie
08-28-2015, 03:19 AM
I spent half an afternoon trying to get Dosbox to run on my 64 bit Win 7 laptop. Finally gave up and uninstalled it.

Its all there and wouks as intended - but a small knowledge of DOS commands etc. is pretty well necessary.

I have Win8 and it works just fine.

Install it from Marv's site and expand the ZIP files into a base directory/folder.

Use the "Run" command in the opening Windows (at the far left panel) and enter your DOS exe file and then follow the instructions and commands.

Richard P Wilson
08-28-2015, 03:49 AM
Following the posts above, it strikes me that its quicker to just use a set of translation gears and the method shown in the video than mess around with exotic programmes.

John Stevenson
08-28-2015, 04:05 AM
Funnily enough I have said the same thing a few times in this thread.

mklotz
08-28-2015, 10:22 AM
Following the posts above, it strikes me that its quicker to just use a set of translation gears and the method shown in the video than mess around with exotic programmes.

When Artful Bodger introduced the subject (post #18) he said, "There is another way although it has little to recommend it." I agree with that comment but, since the subject was under discussion, felt it appropriate to mention my program for the benefit of people who might want to try it. Feel free to ignore what I wrote.

My program is hardly "exotic"; in fact the approach it uses is dead simple. If you're referring to DOSbox, it is a complex bit of code but since it provides a means of running heritage DOS programs on newer systems it has value far beyond running my machining programs. A lot of people wrote a lot of valuable code under DOS and losing it would be a real tragedy.

Baz
08-28-2015, 03:32 PM
My company locked down laptop won't run Marv's .exe files but for some reason will run the ratio calculator off Duncan's site (http://metal.duncanamps.com/software.php) under Hobber calculator. This may help some others.

oldtiffie
08-28-2015, 10:15 PM
Originally Posted by RichR

I suppose you could highlight the Dosbox section in red to lead people to it, but you can't make them read.






I'm not selling anything (everything on my site is free for the taking) so I really don't care if they're too lazy to read the material presented. I get one or two emails a week asking why the programs won't run on newer systems. I long ago gave up answering them.



I am firmly with Marv Klotz on this.

This will among a host of other similar things will (re?)establish hsi credibility in machining generally and in his involvement in HSM work in this instance in particular:

http://www.schsm.org/html/marv_klotz.html

Here is the section on his utilities that he refers to:





Introduction to the Software [Goto Index]

*** NOTA BENE ***: If you're too lazy to read this introduction, at least read the last four paragraphs so I don't have to waste my time answering questions already answered here. These heritage DOS programs will not run directly on the newer 64 bit operating systems. All is not lost however. Download and install the free program DosBox, http://www.dosbox.com and you'll be able to run heritage programs on your 64 bit system.

A collection of home shop, mathematical and miscellaneous utility freeware. Almost all the programs written by me are written in C and source code is included in the zip files - for submitted software, source code availability is at author's discretion. Programs run under DOS (I don't do windows) - although I expect most will run in a windows DOS window (recent feedback from a number of users confirms this assertion).

For the benefit of web novices, one can download the zip file by clicking on its name in the tables below. Once downloaded to your disk, unzip the file using PKUNZIP, which can be obtained from the good folks at PKWARE

Unzip the zip file in a newly created subdirectory on your hard disk. You will find, at the minimum, two files. The file with a "C" extension is the source code. Unless you're into programming, you can ignore it (even delete it if short of hard disk real estate). The file with the "EXE" extension is the program. Run it by typing its name (without the extension) at the DOS prompt. If the program requires any auxiliary files (e.g. DRILL.EXE expects to find DRILL.DAT) it expects to find them in the default directory, so make your newly created subdirectory the default before attempting to execute the program. Many of the programs have built-in default values for the user inputs. Running the program using these defaults will give you a good idea of how it works. Naturally, the defaults can be overridden by user input.

I haven't had time to write extensive documentation for some of the programs. If the zip file doesn't contain a documentation file ("TXT" extension), the program itself contains (I hope) enough run-time hints so that a user familiar with the subject should be able to get the answer he needs. (Hey, at the price I'm charging, a little effort on the part of the user is assumed!) If serious confusion is reported to me, I'll make an attempt to provide clarification in a future documentation file.

Lest I bore more accomplished users with needless instruction, I've written a NOTES file which contains answers to questions I've received in the past. Let me know if you want any useful hints added to this file.

A number of DOS-challenged users of my programs have written to complain that when the program terminates, Windoze, in another one of its mis-guided attempts to think for the user, closes the window before they can inspect the answers generated by the program. Dave Wood has spent some time working out how to keep Micro$oft's abortion from trying to outthink the user. He writes:

In Explorer, right-click on the .exe program name. Select "Properties". Select the "Program" tab. At the bottom of this dialog is a single check-box "Close on exit". Un-check this box. At the bottom of the dialog click on "Apply," then "OK".

His remarks are specific to XP but I expect they are applicable to other flavors of MS so-called operating systems.

Also, Anthony Nagy writes, "I discovered that if you create and use a shortcut to run the program it will run under Windows and not terminate. I run Windows 2000. This may also work with your other programs and other versions of Windows."



Here is his file of utilities:

http://www.myvirtualnetwork.com/mklotz/

The "Run" command utility in the Windows start-up panel will do all that DOS is required to do.

"Run" is a Windows utility run within Windows as a DOS emulator. It is less than a full DOS set of commands but works very well with Marv Klotz' utilities.

oldtiffie
08-28-2015, 10:26 PM
Following the posts above, it strikes me that its quicker to just use a set of translation gears and the method shown in the video than mess around with exotic programmes.






Funnily enough I have said the same thing a few times in this thread.



+1 for both.

Paul Alciatore
08-29-2015, 12:07 AM
Marv, pardon my slip. I did try it under the DOS window, but still ran into the 64 bit incompatibility thing. I did not know about the DOS Box program. It runs great there. And yes, I did not read you introduction. Bad me!

Just a suggestion, but you might format it a bit better, like with some bold headings like: "How to run these Programs" and "Windows Compatibility".

I guess if I want to see how it works, I will have to brush up on C and study the source code.




I'm not selling anything (everything on my site is free for the taking) so I really don't care if they're too lazy to read the material presented. I get one or two emails a week asking why the programs won't run on newer systems. I long ago gave up answering them.

PStechPaul
08-29-2015, 12:12 AM
The "Run" command does not work for MSDOS executables, at least not in Win8.0. It may work on XP, probably Win98, and certainly Win95 in MSDOS mode. DOSBOX is a very useful utility but it takes some getting used to. I have used it under Win7 and Vista and XP, but not Win8.

Here may be another way (at least for XP):
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2817,1161515,00.asp

or
http://www.tomshardware.com/answers/id-1623133/running-dos-program-windows.html

http://sourceforge.net/projects/vdos/

oldtiffie
08-31-2015, 02:56 AM
Odd that.

I've had Marv Klotz's utilities running very well under the"Run" command (limited scope DOS emulator) from ZP to W7 - never a problem.

It is important that you expand the ZIP files in the same directory ("folder"?) as the expanded executables (mainly but not only *.exe).

Searching for the executable as well as correct file names is important too.

Once you get to use and know Marv's utilities they are very good indeed.

I haven't used them for a while now and would need to "brush up" my commands etc.