PDA

View Full Version : OT: American servicemen save Europe from another terrorist massacre



ikdor
08-22-2015, 09:21 AM
Wow, I just read that two american service men jumped a terrorist with an AK47 on the high speed train from Amsterdam to Paris. Judging from the almost 300 rounds he was carrying they saved a lot of lives yesterday.

Apparently they saw the guy with the gun and didn't hesitate a second to decide to grab him while he started shooting the first passenger. One of them suffered stab wounds after wrestling the gun away from him but they still managed to subdue him.

There should be a fund to keep such kind of heriosm supplied with beer money for the rest of their lives. I'd sure as hell donate.

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/08/21/europe/france-train-shooting/

Igor

SteveF
08-22-2015, 10:10 AM
They were in the right place at the right time and did the right thing.

Kudos to them.

Steve

boslab
08-22-2015, 10:17 AM
Well done to them, courageous guys, I'd be a bit bothered by a nutter with an AK pointed at me
They do deserve a lot more than beer money, but will probably get a trinket from the French government instead
Mark

Weston Bye
08-22-2015, 10:43 AM
My impression is that the guys immediately realized that they were dead men if they didn't act decisively, regardless of the danger. I salute them!

I would like to hope I would act the same way if I were in that situation.

Left Handed Spud Wrench
08-22-2015, 11:50 AM
Awesome work.

Now I hope they don't get mired down in "rules and regulations" for acting outside protocol and without approval and blah blah blah.

AD5MB
08-22-2015, 12:03 PM
I have seen reports that two Marines, a national guardsman, a college student, an Air Force guy, and an elderly British guy were among the three heroes

I am thinking that the college student is an Air National Guard guy, which would cut the crowd down a little

Mike Amick
08-22-2015, 01:35 PM
These guys are true heros. The term hero is thrown around way to easily. When a fireman or a policeman
gets hurt, usually they are just doing their job. But these guys unnecessarily put themselves in harms way to
save others.

edit:
"unnecessarily" ... probably wasn't the right word, but hopefully you know what I mean.

mklotz
08-22-2015, 01:42 PM
Can someone explain how, in gun-fearing Europe, someone gets on a high-profile train with an AK47?

SteveF
08-22-2015, 01:49 PM
Well the folding stock model is only about 26" long with the stock folded. That would fit easily in a small suitcase.

As far as the rest of the question, I have long believed that people who want to use a firearm to commit a crime tend not to get too excited about whether they are violating a firearms law.

Steve

Dave C
08-22-2015, 01:49 PM
Can someone explain how, in gun-fearing Europe, someone gets on a high-profile train with an AK47?
Good question. Maybe it should be passed on to the anti gun liberals in congress.

radkins
08-22-2015, 01:57 PM
Well the folding stock model is only about 26" long with the stock folded. That would fit easily in a small suitcase.

As far as the rest of the question, I have long believed that people who want to use a firearm to commit a crime tend not to get too excited about whether they are violating a firearms law.

Steve


EXACTLY!

One of the DUMBEST things we do here in this country is create "Gun free Zones" as if a potential terrorist, a common robber or a nut case is going to abide by such a rule! Gun free zones would be much better labeled "defenseless persons zones", basically it's a welcome sign for the bad guys (come and get us)!

janvanruth
08-22-2015, 02:03 PM
Can someone explain how, in gun-fearing Europe, someone gets on a high-profile train with an AK47?

easy, by just hiding i under a coat, just the same one would do in gun loving USA

janvanruth
08-22-2015, 02:07 PM
EXACTLY!

One of the DUMBEST things we do here in this country is create "Gun free Zones" as if a potential terrorist, a common robber or a nut case is going to abide by such a rule! Gun free zones would be much better labeled "defenseless persons zones", basically it's a welcome sign for the bad guys (come and get us)!

so tell, why is it there are way less gun killings in those defeneless persons zones than there are in the USA?

Black Forest
08-22-2015, 02:08 PM
These guys are true heros. The term hero is thrown around way to easily. When a fireman or a policeman
gets hurt, usually they are just doing their job. But these guys unnecessarily put themselves in harms way to
save others.

edit:
"unnecessarily" ... probably wasn't the right word, but hopefully you know what I mean.

Fireman or Policeman just doing their job! Are you being serious. They are true heros everyday. The guys on the train knew if they didn't do something they would probably get shot and killed. Tackle the guy and maybe live or do nothing and get shot....a no brainer decision. They saved others for sure but they had to act for their own interests.

A Fireman or Policeman puts his life on the line every time they suit up. They are heros just for taking the job in my book.

janvanruth
08-22-2015, 02:11 PM
These guys are true heros. The term hero is thrown around way to easily. When a fireman or a policeman
gets hurt, usually they are just doing their job. But these guys unnecessarily put themselves in harms way to
save others.

edit:
"unnecessarily" ... probably wasn't the right word, but hopefully you know what I mean.


so what does acting to save ones own hide ( and hereby saving some others) make it heroism?

radkins
08-22-2015, 02:19 PM
so tell, why is it there are way less gun killings in those defeneless persons zones than there are in the USA?

Nice try but I was talking about zones here in the USA, has nothing to do with other countries! Why is our problem so bad? It's not lack of gun laws it's drugs and and an overly permissive society! Our problem is we have too many wimps and liberals (or is that redundant?) who want to blame everything on a weapon and ignore the real problem, the people who commit these acts! These people are going to obtain weapons regardless of the laws and disarming the law abiding and therefor depriving them of a means of personal defense is nothing short of stupidity!


I might also ask why it is that areas here in this country where the rate of legal weapon ownership is the highest also have some of the lowest violent crime rates?

SteveF
08-22-2015, 02:22 PM
so tell, why is it there are way less gun killings in those defeneless persons zones than there are in the USA?

Probably because, except for your radical Muslim terrorists, the average European tends to be more law-abiding and less prone to pointless acts of violence than your average American.

Steve

RB211
08-22-2015, 02:33 PM
Notice how the French workers ran away and locked themselves in rooms?

Paul Alciatore
08-22-2015, 02:34 PM
You know, I have long proclaimed that I can prove ANYTHING with statistics. Even opposite sides of the same question can be PROVEN with the same base data. There are people who are experts at analyzing it, at slanting it to whatever direction you want. And they do.

Why are there fewer gun killings in "gun free zones" in the US? Perhaps because those zones tend to be in areas where there is no gun problem in the first place. I would love to see what would happen to that statistic if New York City, Chicago, St. Louis, and other gun problem areas were suddenly declared "gun free". Good luck on that one.

And don't always believe statistics unless you know what they really represent.




so tell, why is it there are way less gun killings in those defeneless persons zones than there are in the USA?

Paul Alciatore
08-22-2015, 02:41 PM
The USA has the finest military in the world. The finest in training. The finest in character. The finest in intelligence. And the finest in terms of their actions. I am proud of them and all the men and women in our armed forces. And that includes the Reserve and National Guard.

As a former member of the US Army, those British and American servicemen have my deepest respect. I was an officer, and if I had encountered them in uniform I would have tried my utmost to initiate the salute with them instead of waiting for them to salute first. They deserve it.

janvanruth
08-22-2015, 02:54 PM
The USA has the finest military in the world. The finest in training. The finest in character. The finest in intelligence. And the finest in terms of their actions. I am proud of them and all the men and women in our armed forces. And that includes the Reserve and National Guard.

As a former member of the US Army, those British and American servicemen have my deepest respect. I was an officer, and if I had encountered them in uniform I would have tried my utmost to initiate the salute with them instead of waiting for them to salute first. They deserve it.

keep on dreaming..

Weston Bye
08-22-2015, 02:56 PM
Heroism is a relative thing. These guy acted when others on the train were (momentarily?) paralyzed with fear or disbelief (surely, this can't be happening???) Heroic by comparison.

Truly heroic when compared to the train crewman who ran through the car and locked himself in the crew car. Add in the other passenger who mustered up the courage to help the Yanks tie up the terrorist.

Recall the (Danish, I believe) passenger who sprang into action to subdue the Underwear Bomber on the plane over Detroit. Or those who subdued the Shoe Bomber. Heroism in the name of self-preservation? I'll take it.

Interesting that the train incident was first reported as thwarted by American Marines. I suppose some in the world are capable of mistaking any American service man (or woman?) for a Marine.

plunger
08-22-2015, 03:58 PM
Doesnt every robber carry an Ak 47 ? Its the standerd choice of weapon when robbing shopping malls with a gang of 15.Dynamite is the standerd tool for blowing up and robbing ATMs. Oh wait sorry I forgot to mention I am from S Africa.You just hope you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time every day.
I am sitting here with my BIL and his brother.My bil has had six cars stolen and his recent car has bullet holes in it when a petrol station was robbed. His brother had his vehicle hijacked and the guy pulled the trigger in his face but luckily the gun jammed. We all need ak 47s here. These guys on the train were heroes and it could have turned out very different.

radkins
08-22-2015, 04:04 PM
Doesnt every robber carry an Ak 47 ? Its the standerd choice of weapon when robbing shopping malls with a gang of 15.Dynamite is the standerd tool for blowing up and robbing ATMs. Oh wait sorry I forgot to mention I am from S Africa.You just hope you are not in the wrong place at the wrong time every day.
I am sitting here with my BIL and his brother.My bil has had six cars stolen and his recent car has bullet holes in it when a petrol station was robbed. His brother had his vehicle hijacked and the guy pulled the trigger in his face but luckily the gun jammed. We all need ak 47s here. These guys on the train were heroes and it could have turned out very different.


What's your options there for self defense, honestly I mean that exactly as it sounds because I have only a vague idea of what you have available to you and so I am curious?

Willy
08-22-2015, 04:16 PM
Hopefully this thread remains focused on the unselfish heroes that averted this near tragedy.
I'd hope that our own personal political/firearms beliefs stay out of what was meant to be a tribute to those men on the train that showed the initiative and decisive action needed to stop another needless terrorist attack.

Take a bow boys, you're getting a standing ovation from this guy!

RB211
08-22-2015, 04:35 PM
Talking about guns with a socialist European is as productive as an Obama voter looking in the classified sections for a job

radkins
08-22-2015, 04:38 PM
Talking about guns with a socialist European is as productive as an Obama voter looking in the classified sections for a job

Lol! Good one!

mattthemuppet
08-22-2015, 05:05 PM
nice job you guys - you took the brave actions of some guys and turned it into a political pissing job.

tmarks11
08-22-2015, 05:08 PM
I have seen reports that two Marines, a national guardsman, a college student, an Air Force guy, and an elderly British guy were among the three heroes. I am thinking that the college student is an Air National Guard guy, which would cut the crowd down a little

The dues from the initial reporting has cleared.

3 Americans were involved:
1. National Guard service member
2. Air Force service member
3. college friend of the above two

American news sources aren't saying anything about an elderly British guy, but that just is cause they probably don't want to share the credit. :D


so what does acting to save ones own hide ( and hereby saving some others) make it heroism?

An alternative method to save their lives would have been run away and hide (as the french trainman did). Which would not be heroic.


He said the (train) staff hurried towards their own car on the train and opened it 'with a special key' before they locked themselves inside.

Taking deliberate action which places ones life in MORE danger to save others is heroic, as in this case. Charging a guy with an AK47 is definitely not the safe play.

boslab
08-22-2015, 05:40 PM
Not the safe play, however it was not what the bugger expected, hence it was successful, had he considered that possibility before pulling the gun the outcome may differ, folk with a weapon never expect to be attacked, head on, they really don't get that there are some people who will perform selfless acts, they will not consider thier own safety, history has shown this to be true.
If everyone was motivated by self preservation we would all run away, that doesn't happen.
They did good, if they don't get free travel throughout Europe for the rest of thier days the transport companies are retarded, (London police don't have to pay for public transport in London btw)
Mark

Mcgyver
08-22-2015, 06:14 PM
nice job you guys - you took the brave actions of some guys and turned it into a political pissing job.

+1

great story, hats off to those guys who are heroes.

Mark Rand
08-22-2015, 06:25 PM
Three Americans, one Brit:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34027443

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-34023361

Mike Amick
08-22-2015, 07:13 PM
The guys on the train knew if they didn't do something they would probably get shot and killed. Tackle the guy and maybe live or do nothing and get shot....a no brainer decision. They saved others for sure but they had to act for their own interests.


Thats the dumbest ass thing I have ever heard. The selfish bastards.

mike4
08-22-2015, 08:06 PM
They just decided to act quickly and the outcome was relatively good , no one can be sure of how they would act in this situation .

Lets not get into a pissing contest , I hope that the guys all get the recognition that they really deserve. And the individual gunman who was on a so called watch list just disappears with no fanfare.

Michael

Rosco-P
08-22-2015, 08:07 PM
Notice how the French workers ran away and locked themselves in rooms?

Must in their their genetic makeup. Notice how helpful the french were during Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

janvanruth
08-22-2015, 08:57 PM
Must in their their genetic makeup. Notice how helpful the french were during Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

you must be right

just look at how the french ran from vietnam.......

janvanruth
08-22-2015, 08:59 PM
Talking about guns with a socialist European is as productive as an Obama voter looking in the classified sections for a job

good one, you gave me a good laugh

Gravy
08-22-2015, 09:00 PM
Regardless of politics, nationalism and social philosophies, one fact stands clear. These guys ran towards the gun, not away. Good for them, and shame on those who second-guess them.

Paul Alciatore
08-22-2015, 09:04 PM
Yup, GOOD ONE!

I don't know how anybody can be retarded enough to believe that socialism actually works.



Talking about guns with a socialist European is as productive as an Obama voter looking in the classified sections for a job

Mcostello
08-22-2015, 09:48 PM
What do You mean Paul? Someone keeps electing people here that must believe in Socialism. Was not Me.

jim davies
08-22-2015, 09:54 PM
"...Why are there fewer gun killings in "gun free zones" in the US?"

Check your facts. That is simply untrue. A typical example is the little
creep that drove past multiple cinemas until he got to the one with "gun
free zone" signs at the entrance. Aurora, Colorado. Every school/college shooting is in a "gun free zone." There have been multiple murders of US military personnel at work, and by law they are in "gun free zones." Well, gun free except for the criminals.

radkins
08-22-2015, 11:01 PM
Well you just gotta love them Texans!!!!!!


http://ammoland.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/Dont-Mess-With-Texas.jpg

wierdscience
08-23-2015, 12:28 AM
you must be right

just look at how the french ran from vietnam.......

Our mistake there was ever backing the French.

The Artful Bodger
08-23-2015, 01:03 AM
Our mistake there was ever backing the French.

No, your mistake was thinking you could carry on without them.

flylo
08-23-2015, 01:12 AM
Must in their their genetic makeup. Notice how helpful the french were during Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

After what America & others gave to save france in WWII they should do anything we ask. Bunch of patte & snail eating, wine sipping sissies & cowards IMHO. Give them their damn statue back to go with their stupid tower.
GOD bless Texas!
Gun free zones are just killing fields made by idiots for idiots. Crime has gone down everywhere conceled carry has gone up.

As far as the incident all the ones that charged the guy I salute & think they did a fine job. Glad there were some real men on board!

wierdscience
08-23-2015, 01:25 AM
No, your mistake was thinking you could carry on without them.

I meant we should have backed the Vietnamese and helped them chase the French out.

KiddZimaHater
08-23-2015, 01:50 AM
Radkins,
That is a totally B.S. photo-shopped picture.
A piss-poor one at that.
Thanks for spreading even more "Southern, Texan, Redneck" stereotypes.

Charles P
08-23-2015, 02:15 AM
Whether "No Gun" zones work in the U.S. is a domestic matter and I agree about reading the numbers two ways.
The fact is that the gun homicide rate in the U.S. is way higher than all other comparable mature western countries. You're free to vote and keep your weapons by all means but the numbers suggest that the U.S. has a problem to which carrying more guns is not the solution.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

wierdscience
08-23-2015, 03:28 AM
Whether "No Gun" zones work in the U.S. is a domestic matter and I agree about reading the numbers two ways.
The fact is that the gun homicide rate in the U.S. is way higher than all other comparable mature western countries. You're free to vote and keep your weapons by all means but the numbers suggest that the U.S. has a problem to which carrying more guns is not the solution.
http://www.theguardian.com/news/datablog/2012/jul/22/gun-homicides-ownership-world-list

It's just not that simple Charles,despite the fact that we have more guns than ever in the hands of civilians,we also have had huge reductions in crime across the board.
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2015/jul/14/murder-rates-drop-as-concealed-carry-permits-soar-/?page=all

Criminals give no thought to obeying the law,they do think about being shot.

thaiguzzi
08-23-2015, 04:00 AM
The USA has the finest military in the world. The finest in training. The finest in character. The finest in intelligence. And the finest in terms of their actions. I am proud of them and all the men and women in our armed forces. And that includes the Reserve and National Guard.

As a former member of the US Army, those British and American servicemen have my deepest respect. I was an officer, and if I had encountered them in uniform I would have tried my utmost to initiate the salute with them instead of waiting for them to salute first. They deserve it.

I know you are patriotic and that in itself is a virtue. But i have to disagree. USA Military - largest numbers in the West - yes. Finest training - nah, try the UK. Finest character - nah, try the UK. Finest intelligence, sorry, try the UK. IMHO.

thaiguzzi
08-23-2015, 04:14 AM
Yup, GOOD ONE!

I don't know how anybody can be retarded enough to believe that socialism actually works.

It's not called socialism. It's called Democracy, you know one man one vote. You generally vote left, right or down the middle. We've had it in Europe since the 1600s in Britain and 1700s in France and elsewhere. I think you have it over the pond too, but only right and a bit middle/right.
You may not believe this, but we also have gangs, criminals, slums, no-go areas for white middle class people, violence, drugs, terrorism, blah blah, but what we DON'T HAVE, is an out of control gun crime rate. Strange huh?

thaiguzzi
08-23-2015, 04:26 AM
Apologies for getting involved in a political/gun crime pissing contest, kudos to the blokes on the train.
Mike.
ps, don't even get me started on the Vietnam war, Domino effect, the country of 3 million people of Laos...

RobWilson
08-23-2015, 04:41 AM
Well done those lads on the train .


Rob

janvanruth
08-23-2015, 04:50 AM
I meant we should have backed the Vietnamese and helped them chase the French out.

the vietminh didnt need help to drive the french out
nor did the vietcong to drive out the yanks

janvanruth
08-23-2015, 05:34 AM
Yup, GOOD ONE!

I don't know how anybody can be retarded enough to believe that socialism actually works.

you probably dont even have a notion what socialism is

flylo
08-23-2015, 05:56 AM
Maybe the guy with the AK was Dutch, had no money & was going to yell bang bang as someone posted last week:rolleyes: Come on folks, the guys did the brave thing subdued the nut & saved the day. Leave it at that.

boslab
08-23-2015, 06:53 AM
The Spanish told the French about him a week before, they couldn't be bothered to do anything, Charlie hebdo all over
Mark

wierdscience
08-23-2015, 08:28 AM
the vietminh didnt need help to drive the french out
nor did the vietcong to drive out the yanks

The Viet Minh wanted and independant Vietnam,instead of backing them,we backed the French as it was decided by the Allies after WWII that Vietnam belonged to France.Had we not made that mistake two decades of war might not have happened.

It looks as though things might be coming full circle,maybe a good thing?

http://thediplomat.com/2015/04/a-breakthrough-in-us-vietnam-relations/

SteveF
08-23-2015, 09:21 AM
the vietminh didnt need help to drive the french out
nor did the vietcong to drive out the yanks

Not quite.

The Viet Cong were supported by the NVA which was heavily "helped" by the Soviet Union and China. The Viet Cong were effectively destroyed in the Tet Offensive and after mid-1968 was the ARVN and US Army versus the NVA.

Steve

radkins
08-23-2015, 10:31 AM
Radkins,
That is a totally B.S. photo-shopped picture.
A piss-poor one at that.
Thanks for spreading even more "Southern, Texan, Redneck" stereotypes.


Of course it is and as silly as it is I just assumed most everyone would know that, it wasn't meant to be taken seriously and was posted only in an attempt at humor, sorry you took it the wrong way.

Tony Ennis
08-23-2015, 10:35 AM
Must in their their genetic makeup. Notice how helpful the french were during Desert Shield/Desert Storm.

But they were reasonably effective when disposing of Qaddafi.

Rosco-P
08-23-2015, 10:41 AM
But they were reasonably effective when disposing of Qaddafi.

Where is that documented?

http://www.britannica.com/biography/Muammar-al-Qaddafi

Excerpted:
In August 2011 Qaddafi’s hold on power appeared to break when rebel forces entered Tripoli and took control of most areas of the city. ........ As rebel forces solidified their hold on Tripoli, they intensified their efforts to track down Qaddafi, offering a $1.7 million reward for killing or capturing him. Qaddafi was killed in Surt on October 20 as rebel forces took control of the city, one of the last remaining loyalist strongholds.