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Horst
09-13-2015, 01:22 PM
This Morning I had a real problem getting my ignition key to go all the way into the lock of my 2005 Honda Civic. I tried my wife's key and had the same problem so ti's not the key. I'm wondering if a little lube might help and if so what kind. i'll bet if I have to replace the lock it will be expensive. Any similar stories or advice?

Doozer
09-13-2015, 01:27 PM
Try WD40 or the Locksmith's favorite, Houdini oil.


--Doozer

goose
09-13-2015, 01:35 PM
Graphite for locks.

A.K. Boomer
09-13-2015, 01:43 PM
Uhhm, do you have that "special" kind of honda civic key?

lube can actually make it not only worse but totally jam up.

if you do have that "special" kind of key about all you can do is try your spare if it's in better shape, this might by you some time but they are engineered to fail and when they do it's not like the old style - once they "jump ramp" it's all over and almost no amount of wiggling will get them to function properly again,,, they are terrible - tried to find a pic but could not,

all you can do is disassemble and forgo the culprit pin or pins and this will compromise your lock and make it easier to pick...
you could go into business and order a bunch of pins but it's a jungle and not recommended,,,
again they are crap, they never should have been built....

mattthemuppet
09-13-2015, 02:22 PM
Replace it. Whatever you do now, it's guaranteed to fail when you're furthest from a tow truck. Buy a replacement cylinder, key it to your key and you're done for another 10 years. It's really not that hard, perhaps an hour if the current one is tricky to remove, and should set you back about $40 or so. Trust me, i went through the same thing and i was lucky enough that mine seized within biking distance of home.

JRouche
09-13-2015, 02:33 PM
Graphite for locks.

Gary has it. NEVER use oil in a lock, specially wd-40, worst stuff there is for lock pins.

My Uncle, locksmith of 45 years gave me a couple pounds of graphite when I last told him I was gonna lube my house locks with wd-40. JR

flylo
09-13-2015, 03:07 PM
My wifes mew Mitsubitsi has a starter button on the dash & if you have the "key on you just push the button, pretty cool! Reminds me the same thing happened when I was 19 with my '66 Olds Delmont 88, just put a push button on the dash. Even then a lot easier than going into into the steering columm.
A note for those over 50 get Allstates towing, lockout, bring gas, change tire program thru AARP for $65/year they will tow you or anyone in your family in any vehicle yours or not up to 100 miles or any of the other things listed 5 times a year. I had a Comet mill on the truch & a toolroom grinder on the trailer & they hauled me 100 miles, a $550/tow if I didn't have this. I've won every year we've had it.

firbikrhd1
09-13-2015, 03:49 PM
You don't have young kids do you? They'll shove anything into a key slot pretending it's a key so they can pretend to drive.

CarlByrns
09-13-2015, 05:42 PM
Try WD40 or the Locksmith's favorite, Houdini oil.


--Doozer

Never use WD-40 on a lock! Ths stuff attracts dirt like crazy.

Never use graphite on an ignition lock! Graphite conducts electricity and ignition switches have multiple contacts to short out.

Houdini oil is the right stuff.

In this case, I'll bet there is some lint or other debris in the key path.

Optics Curmudgeon
09-13-2015, 06:14 PM
Never use graphite on an ignition lock! Graphite conducts electricity and ignition switches have multiple contacts to short out.


Maybe 30 years ago,but since then the ignition switch is down on the lower end of the steering column, with a linkage to the lock. An anti-theft measure. The only contact left in the lock is the one for the "key left in" dinger.

Highpower
09-13-2015, 09:36 PM
Houdini oil is the right stuff.


Actually Honda Permalube (part # 08734-0030) is the right stuff. Needs to be disassembled / cleaned / replacement tumblers/springs if needed though, before the new lube is applied.

(Retired Honda tech...)

Doozer
09-13-2015, 10:02 PM
...And HondaBond sealant for the valve cover.
We get it.
(actually made by ThreeBond and also sold as
Yammabond, no joke.)

-D

Weston Bye
09-13-2015, 10:10 PM
Can't help with the Honda, but a story of my own:

Had an aging Chrysler minivan and stopped ini the local 7-11 for a big gulp or slurp or... Doesn't matter because when I came back out the key wouldn't turn in the ignition cylinder.

Having been involved at work with Chrysler column shift brake-transmission-shift interlocks, I knew how to tear down the column. The problem was that there were 2 or 3 security screws that held the lock cylinder in, and I didn't have the proper tool.

Got a lift home and came back with the tools I did have and an inverter and a Dremel. Undressed the column and cut slots in the security screws and removed them with an ordinary screwdriver. Started the van with the screwdriver and drove away.

The best part of the story was that all the while that I was performing Grand Theft Auto in front of the brightly lighted 7-11, a couple of police officers were inside the store where I could have made eye contact just a few feet away, talking to the clerk and drinking coffee. I didn't see any donuts - the donut shop was next door.

Doozer
09-13-2015, 10:13 PM
......
The best part of the story was that all the while that I was performing Grand Theft Auto in front of the brightly lighted 7-11, a couple of police officers were inside the store where I could have made eye contact just a few feet away, talking to the clerk and drinking coffee. I didn't see any donuts - the donut shop was next door.

LIKE button clicked!

-Doozer

mattthemuppet
09-13-2015, 10:25 PM
sometimes you can also sharply rap the end of the key in the ignition cylinder and that will free things up enough to turn the key and start the car. That's what I did in the Walmart car park when my Focus ignition cylinder locked up. Put the bike in the back of the car, drove home and ordered a new cylinder the next day. Sad thing was the wife and I were out on our first date together without the kids for a year or two. Ended up walking to a pub, having a drink and getting a taxi home :D

CarlByrns
09-13-2015, 11:02 PM
Maybe 30 years ago,but since then the ignition switch is down on the lower end of the steering column, with a linkage to the lock. An anti-theft measure. The only contact left in the lock is the one for the "key left in" dinger.

Wrongo.
American cars used to do that (in the 1980's, about 30 years ago) but it was a very easy lock to defeat. Since then most ignition switches are part of the column (excluding smart fobs). European and Asian cars can be absolute nightmares to replace the switch.

There's any easy test to tell if the switch part of the lock assembly- start the car and turn on all the electrical loads. The lock will get warm.

CarlByrns
09-13-2015, 11:04 PM
Actually Honda Permalube (part # 08734-0030) is the right stuff. Needs to be disassembled / cleaned / replacement tumblers/springs if needed though, before the new lube is applied.

(Retired Honda tech...)

That's one I never heard of.

(Former Honda and Acura tech...)

Black_Moons
09-14-2015, 05:21 AM
Wrongo.
American cars used to do that (in the 1980's, about 30 years ago) but it was a very easy lock to defeat. Since then most ignition switches are part of the column (excluding smart fobs). European and Asian cars can be absolute nightmares to replace the switch.

There's any easy test to tell if the switch part of the lock assembly- start the car and turn on all the electrical loads. The lock will get warm.

Better cars (or ones that have already fried the ignition switch a few times) have a relay that the ignition switch runs to prevent burning out the ignition contacts. Ideally for the starter solenoid too.

One thing to always check when the lock gets 'stuck' is to take tension off the steering lock mechanism by turning the wheel in the same direction as it was last turned before it locked. Lots of cars I have been in, when you turn the wheel and then the steering lock engages, when you release the wheel and it springs back against the lock, it causes the ignition switch to be much harder to turn, sometimes freezing it.

George Seal
09-14-2015, 07:33 AM
Had a 76 F-100 got off work put key in door lock opened door
sat down put key in ignition would not start
got to looking around NOT MY TRUCK

must have been a rough day at work
in my defense they were both the same color

A.K. Boomer
09-14-2015, 10:37 AM
Found an image --- the key in the middle and at the bottom is the kind im talking about - iv had everything taken apart and can tell you they are a designed fail and when they do it can be lights out.
typical keys do not do this...

http://lostcarkeys-nyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Maybach-Lost-Car-Key-New-York.jpg

CarlByrns
09-14-2015, 12:07 PM
Found an image --- the key in the middle and at the bottom is the kind im talking about - iv had everything taken apart and can tell you they are a designed fail and when they do it can be lights out.
typical keys do not do this...

http://lostcarkeys-nyc.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/Maybach-Lost-Car-Key-New-York.jpg

My GTI uses the second from the right- the VW/Audi switchblade. It would be difficult but not impossible to replicate the metal key and it doesn't use a transponder so the car will unlock/start without any drama. Unlike our RAV4 which uses a chipped key that the kid at the hardware store duplicated- including programing- in about three minutes. How is this high-security?

A.K. Boomer
09-14-2015, 12:39 PM
it's not always - but usually the first "pins" or "gates" or whatever you want to call them that end up failing in "most" key designs as they are the ones that get worked multiple times with each insertion - in comparison to the one last on the list that only gets worked once.

not to mention the lead ones having to deal with all the dirt first and far more...

Glug
09-14-2015, 01:17 PM
I stopped at an old lock shop in town one day. They told me to spray WD40 into the keyhole of my outdoor lock (it was sticking due to cold weather). I couldn't believe it. That stuff gets all gummy with time. It attracts dirt. I don't see how it won't gum up the tumblers and prevent them from properly following the key. Lock lube has always been graphite, suspended in a solvent.

I am not a locksmith, but I thought the advice was complete bunk. Maybe they were hoping for some business?

danlb
09-14-2015, 01:18 PM
I have not looked at the honda switches closely, but they appear to use a typical "split wafer" design. In that design, each side of the key can be read since there are independent followers on each side.

The wear can happen at any point along the key. If there is a real deep cut next to a shallow one, the follower will have to move further vertically than normal, and will wear more.

Dan

Highpower
09-14-2015, 04:15 PM
That's one I never heard of.

(Former Honda and Acura tech...)

Doesn't surprise me at all. None of the dealerships I've worked at had the full complement of "required service tools" specified by the manufacturers. If the service manual calls out for a specific tool or sealant / lube whatever, and the dealership doesn't want to keep it in stock you had to improvise with whatever you had on hand. The Permalube is a lightweight GREASE actually.

A.K. Boomer
09-14-2015, 04:45 PM
right and in fact factory lube on many of car ignition is just that -- Grease, a very clear thick grease to be exact,,,

so as far a W-D 40 gumming everything up I really don't think so - might be other reasons not to use it but for drying out a lock form freezing or at least saving one from certain destruction from binding and breaking might just be better than nothing...

steve herman
09-14-2015, 04:58 PM
Your best bet is to have a new lock installed, being a 2005 and lots of miles it is just worn out. One thing that speeds up wear on auto locks is having a lot of other things hanging on the key ring, the swinging motion does a real job on auto locks.
WD40 only
Steve
25 year retired Locksmith

lugnut
09-14-2015, 06:14 PM
On My 2014 Subaru Outback, every once in a while the ignition locks up and before I can turn the key or shift from park, I have to move the steering wheel a little. It seems as if there is any side pressure against the front wheels it will not let the wheel locking device move freely.

A.K. Boomer
09-14-2015, 07:24 PM
I can't imagine anybody not knowing about the steering lock affecting the Key mechanism, it's almost second nature to me to get in a car and before or while im inserting the key im rocking the steering back and forth a little to see if the lock is engaged and if it is then im finding in what direction it's loaded and correcting/rocking while turning the key...

yet --- yes been called out on a service call where someone's "lock has failed" and within a few seconds I have it "cured" and they are like; "wow what did you do"

I feel like saying --- forget what I did - how did you get bye thus far in your life without ever having any problemo's?

CarlByrns
09-14-2015, 11:18 PM
Doesn't surprise me at all. None of the dealerships I've worked at had the full complement of "required service tools" specified by the manufacturers. If the service manual calls out for a specific tool or sealant / lube whatever, and the dealership doesn't want to keep it in stock you had to improvise with whatever you had on hand. The Permalube is a lightweight GREASE actually.

True enough. I once had an Isuzu Trooper where the book called for a very specific lube for the auto lockout hubs. Using the wrong stuff could cause the hubs to lock 'on' in very cold weather. None of the dealers had ever heard of it.

Highpower
09-15-2015, 08:04 AM
None of the dealers had ever heard of it.

Sounds like the last time I went to a local Airgas welding supply to pick up some 4047 tig filler rod. I had no less than SIX employees there tell me that want I really wanted was 4043 filler rod! "Uh.... no, I want 4047 filler rod for the higher silicon content." The store manager chimed in, repeating that I needed 4043 alloy because "there is no such thing as 4047".

At that point I suggested that someone do a search on the AIRGAS web site for 4047 filler rod. The cashier did just that at the counter, and the only response was "huh....... whatdaya know....." :rolleyes:

Manager says, well we don't stock that but I can order it for you and have it here in 2 - 3 weeks. I said "No thanks - I can go home and order it off of the web site myself and have it delivered to my home in 3 - 5 days." Which is what I should have done in the first place evidently....