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rockrat
06-19-2004, 10:04 AM
Just saw this on tv, probably old but new to me. Metal Storm - These guns stack multiple projectiles on top of each other in a single barrel with powder charges in between each projectile. An electronic signal is sent to each individual charge as needed to get different firing rates. As the first projectile is fired, it seats the one behind it. They have these things stacked up in a battery config to make a wall of bullets. Site claims that they have reached 3000 rpm and above. Wow.

Warning, cool video, large files. Might want to use a high speed connection for download.
http://www.metalstorm.com/04_videos/videos.html

wierdscience
06-19-2004, 10:05 PM
YOU LIKE THAT lOOK HERE-
http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/equip/m61.htm

My boss did the cold room testing on both the 20mm 27mm,and a 37mm version,the 20 was adopted and the 27 and 37 was dropped from what he remembers.

The 20mm had a max rate of 6600 spm while the 37mm could manage 3100.He said both guns went fron a rainbow of brass to a round every two or three seconds at -20* http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

He also said they let the thing loose when his boss was in the firing box with them,all you got was a really load Berrrrrrrrp!!!! then it was over,he nearly peed his pants!My boss told him"don't worry,that was just $6,000 going down range" http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif
[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 06-19-2004).]

[This message has been edited by wierdscience (edited 06-19-2004).]

Sprocket
06-19-2004, 10:46 PM
They make those here in Burlington I believe, we sometimes hear them testing at Underhill firing range, and that Berrrrp is a pretty accurate description of the sound.

ibewgypsie
06-19-2004, 11:12 PM
Sounds like a homemade machinegun.. they run pretty fast, up and over 1600 rpm.. My neighbor modified a Ruger Mini-14's trigger tying to get a crisp pull, it sounded like a single huge boom.. no clue how fast it was running, all 30 rounds brass were on the ground and in the air thou. The dummy cut the wrong sear, it looks like a arrow, one is semi-latch-stop the other the trigger sear. I had to fix it, and laugh at him a lot..

Making a submachinegun work properly requires a balance of the gas feedback, bolt and spring to achieve a realistic rate of fire.

Them old Mac10's used to run pretty fast if I remember right, about 1000-1200.. I never liked them. I did like the open bolt Uzi's of the 70's.. Ya know like the secret service carried. And then the Grease gun of ww2, and then the.......

The 3shot star sear they put into the M16's, one of my old buddies got one of them in Central america in the 70's.. I guess that was the try out and proving grounds.. I liked that ideal. America needs riflemen, not spray artists.

Gimme a remote mini-gun mounted on a fast servo rack, omni vision camer with computer flattening. Maybe a crazy kid to load ammo. I want to build a 4 wheeler like that now.. Someone says it is against the Geneva convention to have remote warfare, ie robotics with guns. All that is stopping me in development is too many irons in the fire and a lack of money...

David

Jaymo
06-20-2004, 01:38 AM
Awww, hell. I thought this was about who could eat donuts the fastest.
I think burp guns are interesting. I think all guns are interesting. That said. I'm not interested in owning anything that eats so fast. I couldn't afford to shoot one.

inspectorsparky
06-20-2004, 02:47 AM
3000 spm sounds like a faulty vulcan 20mm.
What I saw on TV was a gun that could fire 1,000,000 spm (if you didn't have to reload),

Heres a link;

http://www.cnn.com/2003/BUSINESS/06/26/australia.metalstorm/

wierdscience
06-20-2004, 08:57 AM
Ya,thats kinda the problem,the ones used in aircraft are short on ammo,the F-16 has 10 seconds worth,better be quick on the trigger http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

rockrat
06-20-2004, 09:30 AM
inspectorsparky, they have that gun on the site. You have to dl the BIG file to see it. I still have not made it through that entire site.

I did have a job where we ran bullets for the military. They were powdered metal rounds with a steel ring in the middle. They were practice rounds for the Gatling gun that hangs under the stealth helicopter. The idea was, the powdered metal would decinigrate on impact but the steel ring would spark when it hit the tank or what ever practice item they were shooting at. Also, the steel ring would grab the rifling in the gun barrel. They were afraid that the powdered metal would eat up the barrels if it were used to grab the rifling.

Here is a shot of the round.
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v12/rockrat/new/DSC01730.jpg
And the blank for the phalanx, used to check for jamming ion the feed system.
http://img3.photobucket.com/albums/v12/rockrat/new/DSC01731.jpg

[This message has been edited by rockrat (edited 06-28-2004).]

ibewgypsie
06-20-2004, 09:49 AM
I worked at Olin chemical where they made the HAN rounds.

Several times lightning hit the tower where the han was made. It blowed up each time. Finally they put rubber strips on the walls so they would not have to recover the several story skid each time.

I hate working at places like that. You can't care much about life if you do show up for work each day.

They were going to move the tower to another location and were looking for a contractor to handle all of the instrumentations, Since my forte is instrumentation I did think about it.

David

Evan
06-20-2004, 12:18 PM
David,

The US used a remote controlled Predator UAV to take out several terrorists in 2002 in Yemen using a hellfire missle. So much for Geneva Convention.

Carl
06-20-2004, 01:45 PM
Only an entity with the power of taxation can afford 3000 rounds per minute.

sandman2234
06-20-2004, 02:25 PM
Carl,
You hit the nail on the head with that one.
Ibew,
Mini-14 in full auto mode only dumps them out at 750 rounds per minute.Come to Florida some time and I'll show you.
The greasegun unloaded at 400 rpm while the Sten started at that and up to 600 for the later versions.
I think the only MAC's that suppassed the thousand rounds per minute were the smaller calibers.I don't think the .45acp ever did.
The G.E. Minigun (M134) shot a little faster with a 4000 round linked belt to supply it, at about 6,000 rpm.
David from jax

rockrat
06-28-2004, 08:51 PM
Added a few photos to the earlier post.
rock

PSD KEN
06-28-2004, 09:33 PM
I hit a very high cyclic rate w/a Browning lever action .22, firing up a SKUNK in the garage.
It was either him or me.I told him to lower his tail and leave immediately, but he went for it.
Only 4 days for garage to air out.

rockrat
06-28-2004, 09:43 PM
4 days? Sounds like you won to me.

ibewgypsie
06-28-2004, 09:47 PM
Sandman..

Not real sure, I only heard ONE blast when the Mini-14 was triggered, but all the brass was on the ground and in the air..

What you got? a convert? A real one?

David

sandman2234
06-28-2004, 11:14 PM
Ibewgypsie,
No convert on this end, it is the real thing, and a blast to shoot. You can hear the rounds since the gun has a silencer on it, which removes a lot of the blast, and allows you to hear each one going out.Still not quiet, since .223 is supersonic. Also, 750 rounds per minute is kind of hard to count...Going to have to drag it out sometime and let you shoot it. However, you will have to come to Florida, because the paperwork is too much trouble for me to come to Georiga.
PSD Ken,
Good thing those Browning BLR's have a short stroke on the lever, or you might have been in for more than four days. I love shooting one of them.
David from jax

Evan
06-28-2004, 11:42 PM
It suprised us in Basic Training when we switched from the M14 to the M16. The loudest part of that weapon is the recoil spring in the action. You can actually hear it creaking with each shot. I once converted a 22LR to full auto (don't remember what make it was). It didn't work all that well and would usually jam after a few rounds. When it did go through a full clip it took about 10 milleseconds. BRAP, I'm done.

Forrest Addy
06-28-2004, 11:48 PM
3000 round per minute? Pshaw. Ever think what your could do with a hopped up pitching machine consisting of a pair of slicks on above the other running tread to tread driven at 2000 RPM by an automotive engine? feed it 1" gravel with a hopper. Mount the whole business on a tilt swivel mount in the back of a truck.

30" slicks at 2000 RPM equals 178 MPH. A 4 oz rock at 180 MPH has about the same energy than a 135 gr .30 cal at 2000 FPS. At ranges of less that 2000 yards it will deliver a volume of fire measured in hundred of pounds of gravel per minute - as fast as a man could shovle. And because it's capable of high angles of fire it's effective against enemy sheltering behind open cover.

Just don't forget mobility.

Great DIY insurrection weapon.

Evan
06-29-2004, 03:20 AM
Just a sec Forrest. I'm too lazy to do the math tonight but how many horsepower would that need? Think in terms of aiming it straight up, use the formula for ballistics using 32 feet per second squared to find how high the gravel will travel then do the horsepower maths.

There has to be a problem with it or we would have seen it used already somewhere, say Ireland.

ibewgypsie
06-29-2004, 04:59 AM
Sandman:

You are aware the bolt on a full auto is different cyclic rate then a semi.
I am thinking the semi my buddy messed up ran a lot faster than a 9mm/380 mac. (they sound like a air tool to me)

Don't matter, I got no way of proving the rate to myself or you thou. He passed away last year. I repaired the gun so it would not do that.

I had a 45 once, it'd do a double tap at times, you'd never hear it, just be less bullets in the gun than you loaded. And two holes in the paper. I don't know what was wrong with it. Someone said too heavy of gun oil. Nothing mechanically I could see.

Friend: I got just the ex-wife I'd like to try it out on.. HA.. nahh, lemme get them thoughts outa my head... I hate prison, never been there but they tell me bad stories.

David

[This message has been edited by ibewgypsie (edited 06-29-2004).]

wierdscience
06-29-2004, 07:48 AM
Gee wizz Forrest! That thing would be awsome,but you would need a semi truck to mount it on,after all the ammo would be heavy as sin http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//rolleyes.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

Now what if we made an air cannon version that coul shoot malutov cocktails at that speed http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//eek.gif http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net//biggrin.gif

dvideo
06-29-2004, 11:33 AM
Forrest....

If you keep going down that path, then it makes sense to bring back the Trebuchet & toss boxes of nails. Come to think of it, it might a reasonable project for "green" minded army research....

--jr

Paul Alciatore
06-29-2004, 11:38 AM
I was at Aberdeen Proving Ground in the 60s and they were running some tests on the Vulcans. You could hear it all over the base.

Ya just gotta love a gun that hums instead of burping.

Of course Puff was a fine sight to see in action at night. Just a sheet of fire reaching to the ground. Wish I had pictures.

Paul A.

Evan
06-29-2004, 11:44 AM
Some pics here:

http://www.spectrumwd.com/c130/gunship2.htm

Forrest Addy
06-29-2004, 04:58 PM
Evan:

A 100 HP engine in theory could accelerate 200 lb of rocks to 180 MPH per minute. Practical yield would be maybe half that because of friction losses etc. I could see the whole package in the back of a mini-pickup or a small box van. Aluminum V-6 engine driving the slicks through a 2:1 reduction, side hopper feed to the contact patch, a swivel mount like an M-60 MG. 360 degrees of train. -10 to +80 degrees of elevation. Maybe even an auger ammo feed.

Pea gravel at low RPM for crowd control. 3" cobbles single fire at max safe RPM for deadly effect.

A scaled down version would be a cool accessory to discourage tailgaters and thunder-mobiles that play their rap music at combat emergency volume.

[This message has been edited by Forrest Addy (edited 06-30-2004).]

Evan
06-29-2004, 06:24 PM
Why stop with rocks? How about 6" chunks of rebar? Just line 'em up in pipes and push them into the wheels with some air. Btw, we have a law in Canada to cover that sort of thing. All "Infernal Weapons" are prohibited and I am sure they would class such a machine as such. It's really meant to cover anything they want that doesn't fit the description of a firearm, like energy weapons etc.

Jaymo
06-29-2004, 11:07 PM
How about if you fed it golf or billiard balls? Seems they could be effective.
Tennis or racquetballs would do for crowd dispersal. Last time I got hit in the nutz with a racquetball, it took the wind out of my sails.

ibewgypsie
06-30-2004, 05:46 AM
There was a tennis ball gun, it was designed to be used in riots to knock people off thier feet.

I had a air cannon once that would shoot a tennis ball flat trajectory for 100 yards.

David